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  1. #1
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    SEO techniques VS real content

    I see a lot of people here spending inordinate amounts of time trying to get Search Engine traffic to their site using various tips, tricks and techniques and even paying some SEO guru thousands of dollars.

    But, if I were to build a website with targeted, real content for my audience. A site that did not have the keywords sprinkled all over the page for SEs to pick up but was there as part of the actual content, should it not theoretically be found by the SE? And be a better way to get SE traffic than all those SE techniques? If you build it, will the SE not come? Or am I being too naive here?

    I am just wondering if someone actually spent all the time and money on content vs SEO would they not be better off in the long run?

  2. #2
    SitePoint Wizard gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy dc dalton's Avatar
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    Content, good content and LOTS of it have and IMO will always be king!

  3. #3
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    You need good content to start. Once you have that you still need optimization. How much? Well, your KW's and competition dictate that.

  4. #4
    SitePoint Wizard ChrisRoss's Avatar
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    You are correct... If you have enough content the SE will find you. BUT, you can also help that along by optimizing your content. Keyword optimization of content is not that hard and it doesn’t take much time at all. If you do it right no one will even notice.

    If you have a writer, have the writer focus on a couple keywords per article.
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  5. #5
    Jeremy Maddock WealthStream's Avatar
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    A truly relevant article will include a lot of keywords without even having to be optimized, but it's always a good idea to check over what you write, and subtly throw in a few extra keywords.
    -- Jeremy Maddock
    SEOMix.com - Search Engine Optimization Tips
    My Blog - Business, tech, and politics from a webmaster's perspective

  6. #6
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    In my experience, lots of content is only effective if you have a lot of link popularity, or if its very unique

    for one google doesn't even spider sites deeply unless it has a decent amount of links pointing at it, at least in my experience

    Also if your content is similar to a lot of other sites, the sites with higher link popularity will come up before your site. Although placing the right key phrases in the title tags will help offset this.

  7. #7
    SitePoint Wizard ChrisRoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferret77
    for one google doesn't even spider sites deeply unless it has a decent amount of links pointing at it, at least in my experience
    This is just not true... As far as unique content this is correct, I'm not sure why anyone would use content that is not unique these days.
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  8. #8
    SitePoint Addict Antonbomb22's Avatar
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    a combination of both content and optimization is best

  9. #9
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    This is just not true... As far as unique content this is correct, I'm not sure why anyone would use content that is not unique these days.
    Are you sure?, have you had google spider in thousands of pages on a site without the site having link popularity. In my experience the more links you have the deeper and quicker it spiders the site.

    Of course I never had the patience to waitto see how much it will index on site with no link popularity, have you?

    I shouldn't have said unique, I meant uncommon, if you have site about miami beach, there are already a million sites about miami beach, so you can write all you want about miami beach, and in my experience most likely your site will not come up. At least in google. Unless people link to it.

  10. #10
    He's No Good To Me Dead silver trophybronze trophy stymiee's Avatar
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    Content. Then you take that content and use the appropriate HTML tags that "help" the search engines derive what that content means. If the content isn't there then there isn't anything to optimize.

    SEO without content = cheating. How can you optimize nothing? You can't. That means you are using trickery and deception which is a no-no (and will always fail when competing with optimized content).

  11. #11
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    SEO without content = cheating. How can you optimize nothing? You can't. That means you are using trickery and deception which is a no-no (and will always fail when competing with optimized content).
    Building links is cheating? that's got to be on of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.

    How can you optimize nothing?
    Well you can build links to a site, it not really "nothing" but it doesn't involve the on site content.

  12. #12
    He's No Good To Me Dead silver trophybronze trophy stymiee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferret77
    Building links is cheating? that's got to be on of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.

    Well you can build links to a site, it not really "nothing" but it doesn't involve the on site content.
    I never mentioned links because this discussion is geared toward on page factors.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by stymiee
    Content. Then you take that content and use the appropriate HTML tags that "help" the search engines derive what that content means. If the content isn't there then there isn't anything to optimize.

    SEO without content = cheating. How can you optimize nothing? You can't. That means you are using trickery and deception which is a no-no (and will always fail when competing with optimized content).
    Well, regarding "trickery and deception", I notice a lot of people trying to do this which was the reasoning behind my original post. Why do people spend so much time trying to do this when that same effort could be put into building original content?

    Could you explain your point about using HTML tags to help the search engines? If you have a targeted content on the page, i.e. text, which is suited for your keywords, then what are you doing with HTML to help the search engine along?

    Thanks.

  14. #14
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    Well, regarding "trickery and deception", I notice a lot of people trying to do this which was the reasoning behind my original post.
    That would depend on what "trickery and deception" you are talking about.

    Most on the page stuff is geared towards giving the site a higher keyword denisity, while making the content still readable.

    Or it can be geared toward making the site appear for lots of oddball terms.

    I would say most on the page "spam" is geared toward that. 1 pixil images alt tagged images, text the same color as the background, text hidden with css styles, stuffing alt tags with key words etc

    The reason people do it is because it either works or at one point it worked, and therefore people made money doing it.

    As long as search engines still value highkey word density, people will be hiding keywords in their pages.

  15. #15
    He's No Good To Me Dead silver trophybronze trophy stymiee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeenThere
    Well, regarding "trickery and deception", I notice a lot of people trying to do this which was the reasoning behind my original post. Why do people spend so much time trying to do this when that same effort could be put into building original content?
    Because they don't know any better. Why do many weightlifters take steroids if they know it's going to kill them? Because it gives them instant results. They're too short-sighted to realize the mistake they are making until it is too late.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeenThere
    Could you explain your point about using HTML tags to help the search engines? If you have a targeted content on the page, i.e. text, which is suited for your keywords, then what are you doing with HTML to help the search engine along?
    Tags like <h1><h2>...,<em>,and <strong> and attributes like TITLE and ALT typically contain keywords for a page's content (if used properly). If you use them appropriately you "help" the search engine determine the meaning of your page. Most search engines also give more weight to words contained in these tags in their algorithms (and thus is why many SEO spammers stuff their keywords in them).

  16. #16
    SitePoint Wizard ChrisRoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferret77
    Are you sure?, have you had google spider in thousands of pages on a site without the site having link popularity. In my experience the more links you have the deeper and quicker it spiders the site.
    I have had a page get indexed with just one link pointing to it from one of my pages. It got index and brought in over 5000 uniques in a couple days for mothers day... it was mothers day related. It took a couple month to get indexed but it did.

    You said google doesn't even spider sites deeply that don't have links... you didn't say thousands of pages... Of course the more popular it is the quicker it spiders.
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  17. #17
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    Even with good contents you have to make sure SE will be able to get these contents properly. Semantic mark-up is a must. Well coded page along with good contents, you'll have the traffics.

    I have a pretty rank in SE results for my targetted words, just with the few techniques mentioned above.

    Some sites might need to work harder though, because there are plenty of similar sites out there.

    Hope this helps.

  18. #18
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    yeah my idea of lot of pages is probably not typical, I didn't mean like 100s pages I meant like big db sites.

  19. #19
    Galactic Overlord gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
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    Are you sure?, have you had google spider in thousands of pages on a site without the site having link popularity. In my experience the more links you have the deeper and quicker it spiders the site.

    Of course I never had the patience to waitto see how much it will index on site with no link popularity, have you?
    I have. There are very few links pointing to one of my sites (less than 5) but we get masses of pages spidered. It is a big db driven site. I don't believe the 'depth' the spiders go have anything to do with links. They only seem to affect how quickly it happens, and how well you do in PR.

  20. #20
    SitePoint Wizard
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    I get the impression that on a first visit google either only indexes the page that a link took it to or the index page itself if you submitted the site. On later visits it follows some links deeper and on later still visits it either follows more links from the arrival page or goes even deeper from second level pages. It probably alternates between more links on index vs deeper from the next page down. I watched the number of pages indexed for a site gradually increase with time, with no more new links to the site. Then I found some related sites and they added a few links. This meant more frequent visits, giving more chance of google going deeper to index more pages. So you might think that it was the number of links that persueded google to go deeper, but it was just the number of visits that did it. With no more links, it would eventually have gone deeper anyway and added more pages.

  21. #21
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    I have. There are very few links pointing to one of my sites (less than 5) but we get masses of pages spidered. It is a big db driven site. I don't believe the 'depth' the spiders go have anything to do with links. They only seem to affect how quickly it happens, and how well you do in PR.
    I set up a couple amazon stores and the ones that very few links very few pages showed in the index, like maybe a couple hundred pages, and then nothing for months. But shortly after I started adding links, their page counts increased. Maybe if I had just waited longer it would have happend anyway.

  22. #22
    SitePoint Enthusiast SheWritesCopy's Avatar
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    Your site content is the most important aspect of your website. All the SEO in the world won't help you if your content reads like a third grader wrote it.

    Most of the sites I viewed from fellow SP'ers don't have this problem.

    Yes, you should optimize your tags and links. While that helps you in getting "crawled" that doesn't address the needs of your viewer. Ask yourself, "How does my content benefit my reader?" If you take all the graphics away, is the information remaining good enough to stand on it's own?

    Websites that market design and graphics need this as their product. While these sites are a virtual feast for the eyes, they also need engaging content to set themselves apart from their competitors.

    The reality of the internet is the vast majority of sites sell consumable or information products or services.

    A website that has poor content is like a ship at sea without a sail. It's floating, however it floating aimlessly. There's no "fabric" of content to catch the "wind" of visitors who pass over it.

    Why be dead in the water?

    Graphics are a great tool for showing a products features. Content is the tool used to show the benefits of that product. People don't buy features, they buy for the perceived benefits that your product can do for them.

    Combining excellent layout, dynamic graphics and creative content makes a highly pleasurable experience for your reader. This is how you end up on a Favorites list.

    This is how you gain new clients and keep the old ones comming back.

    When you spend equal (if not more) time developing informative, entertaining site content your reader will get a great experience.

    SEO and Graphics alone do not keep visitors comming back. Content does.
    Anita Franklin
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  23. #23
    Non-Member foodbiz's Avatar
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    But how do you know HOW much content is enought ... and when for example my competitors don't have all that much content but still rank WAY WAY higher than I do on google... what then??

  24. #24
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    I think that you are sort bluring the line between seo and the sucess of the site.

    All the SEO in the world won't help you if your content reads like a third grader wrote it.
    That also goes the other way, you can have the best content in the world, if no body sees it, the site still won't be successful.

  25. #25
    Google Engineer polvero's Avatar
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    I only have this to say.
    I code to Standards and I hiarchize well.
    And honestly, some people just don't know how do that. So why not let them pay thousands of dollars to people like us who do.


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