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  1. #51
    SitePoint Enthusiast dsotmoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stymiee
    These forums were very popular long before the marketplace became what it is today. These forums are going to thrive despite the negative feelings some members have towards this move. Our non-marketplace forums are the best on the Internet hands down and that's what this place is all about. The members and staff here are beyond friendly and the amount of knowledge available here is mind boggling. Charging for the privilege to sell your site will not change any of that.
    this is true, but to the sites own admission the sell your site forum is now the 3rd most popular and growing, noone is disputing the fact that SP could/should charge for the right, it's the manner in which it's being handled

    the fact you say these forums will thrive despite the negative feeling of its members is disheartening, it may be true but the roots of this place was built on alot of the people you may alienate at the same time, very sad

  2. #52
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    I dont really like the large list of sites, I have seen many posts on other forums that have 50 turnkey sites listed and none of them sell, so potentially posting a large number of sites could give you a loss of $9.95. there is a way that could gain a lot of money, if the person sells a large number of unique sites, that is going to sell most of the sites

  3. #53
    SitePoint Enthusiast dsotmoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dc dalton
    youve actually got a good point that MANY havent noticed ... its $9.95 per thread ... now how many threads run 2 - 20 sites!
    this hasnt been thought through by SP, I can come in, list 20 sites in one thread, pay 9.95 and refuse to sell ANY site that doesnt meet MY minimum but maybe sell one site for 10,000.00 out of those 20, SP will lose all they could have made on the other 19 sites i listed at a minimum of 300.00, instead of keeping it real and taking a percentage of them all

  4. #54
    SitePoint Wizard gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy dc dalton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsotmoon
    this hasnt been thought through by SP, I can come in, list 20 sites in one thread, pay 9.95 and refuse to sell ANY site that doesnt meet MY minimum but maybe sell one site for 10,000.00 out of those 20, SP will lose all they could have made on the other 19 sites i listed at a minimum of 300.00, instead of keeping it real and taking a percentage of them all
    YES BUT ... if you list 10 turnkeys at $20 each all you have it $2 a site in fees .... come on! Whats wrong with that? So these turnkey designers will only post once a week, not 10 times a week......

  5. #55
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    this is nuts and im on the buying side things most of the time

    there are lots of use around with server

    we're a data center - you buy the box i'll provide the BW for sponser add
    Last edited by Helge; May 6, 2005 at 00:38. Reason: Swearing is not allowed. -Helge
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  6. #56
    SitePoint Addict noxcel.com's Avatar
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    WOW, sitepoint does not have money to pay for hosting?........................o.k.
    Webmaster Tutorials | Photoshop, Flash, 3D Tutorials

  7. #57
    ~unplugged Ainslie X11's Avatar
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    Is anyone going to start up a poll ?

    There's alot of interesting opinions, it would be interesting to get a statistical measure of who's for it, and who's not.


    working hard is hard work

  8. #58
    SitePoint Wizard gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy dc dalton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ainslie X11
    Is anyone going to start up a poll ?

    There's alot of interesting opinions, it would be interesting to get a statistical measure of who's for it, and who's not.
    FEEL FREE ... but personally I dont think its going to change anything.

  9. #59
    SitePoint Enthusiast dsotmoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dc dalton
    Obviously Peter, some of these people just dont understand how much it takes to keep an enterprise level site like this up 24 / 7 .... I know, I own servers and a hosting company.... and I have to say, FOLKS you have NO idea!
    this is really irrelevent, noone disputes the hosting costs for SP, i DO have an idea but if you were to realize 1/2 of your traffic came from a particular country would you charge that country more for hosting OR would you gladly accept equal payment from all parties without turning away the majority of your traffic?

    you offer a service, you dont penalize for differences in users, there has to be a solution more uniform, i know i am wasting my time with this

    ( i sell domain names, as an example, i sell them for 2 years for 5.00, one day i noticed a 1/3 of my traffic comes from Timbuktoo, hmm i will sell to them for 10.00, they get mad and shop me, find xyz is selling them still for 5.00, i lose a 1/3 of my business)

    SP isnt the only game in town and when they get to the point of thinking they are, they will lose a great part of their membership base that helped them become what they are

  10. #60
    SitePoint Enthusiast dsotmoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dc dalton
    FEEL FREE ... but personally I dont think its going to change anything.
    i dont think so either, sad, very sad

  11. #61
    ~unplugged Ainslie X11's Avatar
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    I've never started a thread/poll before so I don't know how...

    Changing a very good decision wasn't the idea. But that's my opinion, how many think the same way, or don't, is "interesting" statistical information.


    working hard is hard work

  12. #62
    SitePoint Member
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    Granted hopefully A fee would do away with some of these guys posting tons O' turnkeys but 9.95 a post is a bit much especially going from $0 - how about something reasonable - even 2.50 a post would generate a great deal
    contractdata.net

  13. #63
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaxS
    Why not hire/add (Volunteer) mods since its such a strain for the current moderators?
    How would SitePoint hire new moderators to manage this forum if they aren't generating revenue to pay those moderators. Also volunteer moderators are not going to alleviate the operational costs related to hosting, the web/database server and bandwidth.

    Being the owner of a site that chews through bandwidth like a Hummer, guzzles fuel, I can fully appreciate SitePoint's position. The operational costs of this forum must be tremendous. If the "sell your site" forum is generating most of the traffic and those making use of this forum are generating profits because of this forum, it only makes sense for those who sell their sites in this forum help pay the operational costs. After all, those who sell sites here are presumably making a profit off of those sales.

    Folks, metered or unmetered, bandwidth and hosting fees for a resource intensive forum like this are very expensive. As those who run forums know, forums don't exactly have the best track record in regards to generating revenue via banner advertising.

    Operating a website costs money, the more popular a site is, the more money it takes to operate. Money has to be generated to pay those operational costs.

    For those who post low end "turn-key" sites, I simply recommend following the advice of others in this thread and simply sell several sites per thread to reduce the per site cost of selling sites here.
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  14. #64
    ~unplugged Ainslie X11's Avatar
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    I agree, but there's also other area's of sp that generate inflow's that should be taxed as well


    working hard is hard work

  15. #65
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by contractdata
    Granted hopefully A fee would do away with some of these guys posting tons O' turnkeys but 9.95 a post is a bit much especially going from $0 - how about something reasonable - even 2.50 a post would generate a great deal
    If this forum is generating as much traffic as has been reported, a fee of $2.50 might not create enough disincentive to post new threads nor would it generate very much revenue. By having a higher cost, SitePoint should be able to significantly reduce traffic and thus reduce server load. This could save more money than would be raised by implementing a lower fee and thus would be a more economically desirable solution for SitePoint.
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  16. #66
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ainslie X11
    I agree, but there's also other area's of sp that generate inflow's that should be taxed as well
    You may be right, but I think it is up to SitePoint to determine what should and should not be "taxed" based on their objectives. For instance maybe some forums are valuable to SitePoint for non-monitary reasons. For instance, forums like the PHP forum generate lots of search engine fodder with content that is relevant to SitePoint's main business objectives.
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  17. #67
    SitePoint Member edpudol's Avatar
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    This really hurts small seller, why not one time payment?
    Visit us at lexorsoft.net , if you need SEO related services

  18. #68
    Non-Member Waraas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLB
    If this forum is generating as much traffic as has been reported, a fee of $2.50 might not create enough disincentive to post new threads nor would it generate very much revenue. By having a higher cost, SitePoint should be able to significantly reduce traffic and thus reduce server load. This could save more money than would be raised by implementing a lower fee and thus would be a more economically desirable solution for SitePoint.
    And also give your competitive websites and advantage. If this forum is one of the top on the site, then wouldent you want it active?

  19. #69
    Just starting to make money... Sparta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLB
    If this forum is generating as much traffic as has been reported, a fee of $2.50 might not create enough disincentive to post new threads nor would it generate very much revenue. By having a higher cost, SitePoint should be able to significantly reduce traffic and thus reduce server load. This could save more money than would be raised by implementing a lower fee and thus would be a more economically desirable solution for SitePoint.
    So, continuing that train of thought, it would be most economically feasible for Sitepoint to charge a $!0,000 registration fee? I mean, that will keep all the lowlifes out. Oh, and the reduced traffic means less of a load!

    What a wonderful idea! I wonder why no one else does this!

    Oh wait...

    Your argument is utterly moot. You're saying the point of this is to drive people a way, and thereby reducing the costs of hosting. No, that is utterly retarded.

    This will not simply make the threads posted a 'higher quality', it will initially drive off a good 70% of sellers, which will then drive the buyers away, and it will spiral downward. I'm willing to bet money that these market forums will stagger and die within 6 months of this rule. Let me say it again: Pushing sellers away will push a majority of the buyers away, which will make the $10 posting fee a money sinkhole.

    This is the stupidest idea I've ever heard of. $10 a thread is monumentally stupid.

    I'm sure people wont mind a $10 registration fee. In fact, one of the most successful boards online, which I am currently a member of, is a fee-to-join site, http://forums.somethingawful.com. They're also the most stringent. Forgettign to read the rules gets your account banned (and you hav to pay the regitrtion fee again to get it unbanned. Then its $10 to change your avatar, $10 for platinum (searching, pming), and 60,000 people have paid all this.

    This also keeps riff-raff and morons out.

    By making a fee to post, you are pushing people away, making a fee to join you are filtering people. You will help offset hosting costs and you will help bring the quality of sites sold here up.

    Then I have another point. You are treating this site as a money sinkhole, just eating up bandwidth and cash. What a concieted statement. The number of books you sell because of this site, and because people are atracted to these market forums should easily offset some costs.

    This fee-to-post will ruin all these forums.

    I'd also like to say this is my last post here. Goodbye.
    Ad spots available on 750k/m site. PM for info.

  20. #70
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    I really think this is NOT the right way to go about this. An annual or lifetime membership fee could have been perfectly acceptable and probably would have increased level of professionalism displayed on most of the forum sections however charging people $10 per thread is simply a bit too much.

    Sell Your Site section was popular because people were selling their sites and bidding on others with their sale revenue or at least with the knowledge that they will have money coming in but by doing this you are simply cutting down both sides of the flow. I would simply recommend having various membership levels and to post in the marketplace section, members would need to be at a certain level. The higher your membership level, the more you can post new threads in this section.

    If you do not revise this rule, I really think you are going to pi** a lot of webmasters off and loose a lot of your traffic at least in the marketplace section. In the short or long run you will collect less funds with the $10 per thread system then a membership system which could have been used for the whole forum. I would have gladly paid up to $50-$100 for a full membership had you come up with a good membership system and explained to all the members that SP needed our support to say up on its' fees. I am sure most of the members would have. Forcing people to pay to post in an effort to harvest the crop on a public forum with the "expenses" excuse despite selling advertising for $2000+/month for a small banner is simply not cool. If SP can not cover expenses, then you need to look at your OWN internal revenue system and see what you are doing wrong rather then trying to directly bill this on members and sellers.

  21. #71
    Non-Member Waraas's Avatar
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    Sparta has a great post...

    I think that if you guy do charge to post in this forum, then members will go to other sites, post on there forums, buy there e-books, etc. I just dont see why you would want that???

  22. #72
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    Just today I was telling one of my partners that the quality of sites listed here has declined in just the two months since I've been around... and wading through all of the baloney was a pain in the neck.

    I am a buyer, and I was ready to pull the SPS SYS button off my links bar. Glad I didn't. I hope more mid-range sites are listed and it won't take me a half-hour twice a day to wade through the turnkeys.

  23. #73
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waraas
    And also give your competitive websites and advantage. If this forum is one of the top on the site, then wouldent you want it active?
    My primary reason for participating in the SitePoint forums is to learn and share. Sure having my sigs are nice, but to be honest, my PR is no better today then it was over a year ago prior to my joining SitePoint. My sites have not gained any measurable competitive advantage from having them in my SitePoint sigs.

    Yes some SitePoint users will leave over this issue, but this forum was pretty darn good even before the marketplace forums became so popular. In fact, I personally think I've seen a decline in the overall quality of discussions here in the past six months. Maybe reducing the popularity of the marketplace forums will help shift the balance of this forum back to its roots. Anyone habitually uses the "today's topics" links like I do will have noticed a steady increase of "sites for sale" threads drowning out other discussions.

    I seriously don't see SitePoint charging for the ability to sell our goods or services in the marketplace forums as a great threat to the overall health of the other forums.

    For those so bent out of shape over this, I would like to remind people that SitePoint is a private for profit company. As such they have every right to manage this forum as they see fit. If they feel they need to charge $9.95 per thread in the "sell your site" forum, then it is their right. At the same time, since the Internet is a giant free market, those who feel this fee is unfair would be within their rights to sell their sites in other places.

    Personally, I think we should all be grateful that the folks at SitePoint had the vision to put the entire SitePoint forums together in the first place and that they make the vast majority of it available to us free of charge and with very little advertising. We shouldn't begrudge their desire to charge a fee for the privilege to sell our goods in the marketplace--even if they decide to charge $9.95.

    In regards to charging a lower fee, there is a point of diminishing returns. As anyone who uses PayPal knows, there is always a fee involved with taking payments over the Internet. Those fees can create lower thresholds that make really low prices uneconomical. Maybe from SitePoint's perspective charging anything less than $9.95 isn't practical.
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  24. #74
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    I didn't notice this thread and was just wondering why so few new sale posts. It's a big mistake to make the change, IMHO. I bet the path of "sell your site" would be: fewer sales ->fewer vistors->fewer sales->...-> dead... probably other forums will follow the path too.

  25. #75
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    DNForum.com is $50 to join and start posting


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