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  1. #126
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
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    molona, well written
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  2. #127
    SitePoint Zealot LSW's Avatar
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    Thank You, Migwetth, Gunalche’esh, Ha’w'aa, Danke

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  3. #128
    #titanic {float:none} silver trophy
    molona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLB
    molona, well written
    Thank you

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by KmyLars
    I am graduating next weekend with a degree in both Computer Information Systems (CIS) and Web & Digital Media Development (WDMD) from the University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point (UWSP). My class is the first to graduate with the new WDMD new major.

    My first impression of the WDMD major at UWSP was that it wasn't complete...we didn't learn anything about php or databases. The only real design course offered was on beginning photoshop. I feel bad for the people who do not have a CIS background, because they do not know anything about coding or building dynamic sites. I feel that most of the things I know today about web design are self-taught. However, the one thing that was stressed a lot at UWSP was web usability standards. We were taught from the beginning that CSS was important, and we were challenged to use CSS to replace the tables in our sites. We learned about XHTML, XML, and other standards used today. And although I know flash & action script pretty well, my portfolio is not in flash.

    After reading the post on how some colleges are neglecting to teach these standards, I feel much better about what I've learned at UWSP. But if you're thinking about going there, at least take CIS as a minor so you get a complete background in the technical area.
    Congradulations on graduating! I just graduated in December (MIS).

  5. #130
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by molona
    Well... True, it does look like I am talking about something else.... but I was simply pointing out something someone else said.

    msjapan2005 commented that a friend of his/hers was studying a web designing/development course and that they tought COBOL n their programming course instead of more widely known/used languages like C++.

    I simply pointed out that, unless that friend was already a programmer, starting with C++ is more likely to be an error. No because he/she couldn't do it, programming in itself is abstract and the methodology is independent of which language you use, but because C++ is too hard for a begginer.

    Following your example, it is like if I start web designing with XML (including XSLT, XPath and XLink) instead with HTML and CSS. Can I be a good designer? Yes, sure, why not, but I will need to work much harder that if I start with the easy stuff and then, when I understand what I do and why I do it, move on to more complicated things.

    Another subject would be if that friend was not learning web standards, I really do not know what kind of web course that is.

    Actually, my message might have been a little misunderstood also. Just to go into a little more detail about the situation. The University requires each MIS (Management Information Systems) student to take COBOL or an approved programming course, it wasnt a web course. I am not sure if it was her first class or not honestly. My arguement wasnt so much that C++ is more important (which like everything else can be looked at many different ways) but more that C++ was not considered an approved programming course by the University. Which course is the better to start with is a good point, but I think that if a student decided to take C++ as thier first programming class and they can handle it I think that C++ should be an approved programming class. Sorry if I didnt clarify my point well
    Last edited by msjapan2005; May 16, 2005 at 15:23.

  6. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Musicbox
    you can learn graphics designing in a week
    No. You can't.

  7. #132
    Non-Member demosfen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratfaces
    I think its safe to say you don't learn webdesign in college. You learn it on your own.
    Very safe, but it gets even better. You don't learn ANYTHING in college. Colleges are brainwashing institutions that prevent you from learning. That's true! (or very close to the truth)

  8. #133
    Xbox why have you forsaken me? moospot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demosfen
    Very safe, but it gets even better. You don't learn ANYTHING in college. Colleges are brainwashing institutions that prevent you from learning. That's true! (or very close to the truth)
    If you weren't serious, I would laugh. But not all colleges are bad. I will agree that there are good teachers and bad teachers at every institution, but that doesn't mean that college is bad.

    People have different learning styles (learned that in college, btw). Some people can learn from an academic environment. Some people learn by doing (kinesthetic learning). Some people can learn by watching others. Some people can learn just by reading a book. It all depends on your learning style. Some brilliant people have problems in tradtional educational environments, but they excel at what they do. You shouldn't be a bashing of our educational establishment, but you need to understand how the human brain works. Of course if you go in with a closed mind, believing you won't learn anything or that they can't teach you anything, then you will only fulfill your own destiny.

  9. #134
    Non-Member demosfen's Avatar
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    I learned some things in school myself (majored in computer science, not a web designer), mostly stuff that I now know isn't true. Technically you are correct, it's not true that you can't learn anything in school. It's just that, if it is taught in school, it can't be true (c) (Yes, there are exceptions). I agree with poster who said that the only way (unless you get lucky) you can learn web design is by self-teaching. I am just generalizing it, because it's the same with too many things, not just web design.

  10. #135
    Xbox why have you forsaken me? moospot's Avatar
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    I respect your opinion but disagree with your point. I know that motivated people can learn on their own, especially since the advent of the Internet. I just think that if you learn from someone who is an expert, or at least knows the ins and outs, is a lot easier than trial and error. We should benefit from other's mistakes and experience and that is the point of going to school. You go to learn the proper way (theory) and then you find your own working style. There will always be a discrepancy between the classroom and real life.

    I am curious though...can you give me some examples of something they taught you in school that aren't true? And where did you go so I can stay away from that place?

  11. #136
    Non-Member demosfen's Avatar
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    Stuff like, Einstein's relativity theory (not to say it's necessarily false, but there is too much debating going on among scientists to teach it as something proven)... the founding fathers being catolics, and hell knows what else. You may want to ask what this has to do with programming - I've no idea, but that's what they teach computer science students for some reason. Perhaps it was too difficult to teach lies about 1's and 0's, so they found a workaround.
    Honestly, it wasn't THAT bad, I probably learned more lies in high school & kindergarden than in college.
    They all use the same curriculum (sp?), so thankfully you don't need to stay away from particular school I went too!

  12. #137
    Xbox why have you forsaken me? moospot's Avatar
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    Catholic school, huh? Yeah, no wonder you feel the way you do. I can totally see your point. And I'm not being sarcastic. Catholics scare me. Seriously.

  13. #138
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demosfen
    Very safe, but it gets even better. You don't learn ANYTHING in college. Colleges are brainwashing institutions that prevent you from learning. That's true! (or very close to the truth)
    Actually the most important thing you are supposed to learn in college is critical thinking and how to learn. The thing is, there typically isn't a class called "how to learn" or "critical thinking". This is something the process of going to college is supposed teach.

    College is also about learning to play the game of life. An important aspect of college is learning how to figure out what it is the other person wants. For instance, lets say are you are given a class project. If you figure out what the professor really wants, which they may not explicitly state, you can save considerable effort by providing exactly what the professor what they want but no more, thereby not wasting effort. If you could spend 10 hours and get an 'A', why spend 20 hours when you will still only get an 'A'?

    Life is the same way. If you are on salary, which is based on the assumption that you work 40 hours per week, you don't get extra for working 60 hours per week. And the prospect of getting bonuses or promotions rarely end up fairly compensating you for your extra efforts. If you give your boss sixty hours per week, he/she will take sixty hours per week and ask for 65 hours per week. No matter how much you give, they will always ask for more. It becomes a vicious cycle you can not escape.

    So, instead of wasting effort, your goal should be to figure out exactly how much effort you have to put out for your boss and put out no more. If you worked only 40 hours per week instead of 60 hours per week, because you are only paid to work 40 hours per week, you can take that extra twenty hours and invest it towards other endeavors that will increase your income (e.g. starting your own business).

    That is what you should learn in college. The rest of the junk is just job skills to make you employable and you'll never get ahead working for someone else.
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  14. #139
    SitePoint Member dsimk2002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSW
    I had 3 months of C++ in my web programming course. never understood why, they never taught us how we would use C++ on a web site and to this day I do not think it is feasable. I can use Borland and write a program to change ü into ü, but how I would use C++on a web site is still beyond me. Always seemed like a wasted 3 months to me.

    I have been looking around to find what I should learn next to create websites and found out that C++ would be useful in creating websites using ASP.NET This is because it can be done with either C++ or Visual Studio .NET
    I am just starting to learn this so that's all I have for now


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