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  1. #76
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    umm, yeah, I don't have a thing for anyone's rosebud...thanks for the term, Coco...lol
    Aaron Brazell
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  2. #77
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    sketch: Anytime

    creole: Intended for Pleasure?
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  3. #78
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    Originally posted by studiococo
    sketch: Anytime
    creole: Intended for Pleasure?
    ?

    Sure, but it still doesn't do anything for me.
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  4. #79
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    creole: Great book... Thought that was what you meant (author said same thing).
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
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  5. #80
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    yeah...I can't remember the name of it though. I loaned it to a friend of mine who actually GOT married. I told him to make sure that he covered the book in plastic for the "exercises".
    Adobe Certified Coldfusion MX 7 Developer
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  6. #81
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Yeah, this one had exercises too...
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
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  7. #82
    ********* Callithumpian silver trophy freakysid's Avatar
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    Originally posted by studiococo
    It was really just a sad attempt to get our backs up. If you have a thing for your wife's rosebud, go for it... I don't (for your wife's or mine).
    Shall I PM you in future so that you may vet my comments before posting them?

  8. #83
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Ooh, someone's antsy. Sure, whatever makes you perky.
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  9. #84
    Dumb PHP codin' cat
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    Last edited by freddydoesphp; Jun 27, 2001 at 21:01.
    Please don't PM me with questions.
    Use the forums, that is what they are here for.

  10. #85
    Destiny Manager Plebius's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TWTCommish
    I have to disagree (somewhat). A liar does not lie 24 hours a day. A homosexual is leading a "homosexual lifestyle" all the time. Is this worse? Heck, I don't know, but there is definitely a subtle (yet significant) difference there.
    Some of the worst sins are committed by those who do not do them 24 hours a day. A murderer does not lead a "murderer lifestyle", nor do most murder on a consistent basis. And... some liars I have met do lie 24 hours a day about anything and everything. I'm not sure your argument can stand up to such scrutiny, as I see it falling flat.

  11. #86
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Plebius
    Some of the worst sins are committed by those who do not do them 24 hours a day. A murderer does not lead a "murderer lifestyle", nor do most murder on a consistent basis. And... some liars I have met do lie 24 hours a day about anything and everything. I'm not sure your argument can stand up to such scrutiny, as I see it falling flat.
    Quite frankly, I don't see how you can know someone who lies 24 hours a day. It is a rough example, and far from perfect, but I believe it holds up just fine. What you have to realize is that I never stated that homosexuality was worse than anything else, but the fact that it is basically a constant thing is what makes me wonder about it. It's the thing that keeps me from just going "oh, no big deal, that's just like ANY other sin" -- I don't know if it's just like any other sin.

    Seems like everytime I say something someone takes the liberty of jumping one step further, huh?


    What really made me start writing this thread, is the complete lack of compassion for our fellow man/woman. God teaches us not to judge, but it seems all the religious folks do is judge. You are a sinner because of this, you did that, oh man you are going to hell.

    If it ain't hurting you directly, then what the hell do you care anyway?
    Well, to answer the last question first: does murder of someone half-way around the world hurt my directly? Sin is not about how much it hurts me, it's about whether or not is is forbidden by God, and homosexuality is.

    Oh, and as for "God teaches us not to judge" -- I hate to lash out at anyone here, but I'm about fed up with people who mis-use that. Tell me: if I tell a liar not to lie, am I "judging" them? Am I a hypocrite for saying that to them, seeing as how I have lied at some point in my life?

    Of course not. The passage about not judging people obviously is not meant in that sense. In my opinion, it simply means that we cannot judge their soul, and that God is the only One who can truly judge them. It doesn't mean we can't think that this is bad, or that is a sin, etc.


    So it appears we have a situation where something that many of you call a sin, is something that saved my family's relationship. And what all this was done by two religious people who ask God for advice on a daily basis. If homosexuality is so evil and such a big sin, shouldn't God have told my dad to keep repressing those feelings?
    I'm sorry, but that's a bit faulty. Murder can be evil, and yet good can come from it. My parents are divorced, and let me tell you, they are BOTH happier because of it. Life is so much better on both sides now as a result. It doesn't mean it was a good thing, though. It was a bad thing that turned out well.

    If anything, I see your experience as an example of how God can take a sinful thing and turn it for the better.

    What if drinking alcohol made your father kinder and more relaxed towards you all? What if he was only pleasant when drunk? Using your example above as a template of sorts, wouldn't that make his drunkenness a good thing as well?

  12. #87
    Destiny Manager Plebius's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TWTCommish

    Quite frankly, I don't see how you can know someone who lies 24 hours a day. It is a rough example, and far from perfect, but I believe it holds up just fine. What you have to realize is that I never stated that homosexuality was worse than anything else, but the fact that it is basically a constant thing is what makes me wonder about it. It's the thing that keeps me from just going "oh, no big deal, that's just like ANY other sin" -- I don't know if it's just like any other sin.

    Seems like everytime I say something someone takes the liberty of jumping one step further, huh?

    Ok, I guess I didn't communicate well enough, or ask the right questions.

    24 hours a day liar: I met a girl who lied CONSTANTLY. She said her parents died (they didn't). SHe said she had cancer (she didn't). Being a liar was a part of her identity 24 hours a day and she did it often.

    What makes homosexuality a "constant thing" other than it being a part of how a person identifies themselves, which may or may not lead them to live a "homosexual lifestyle"? What exactly is a "homosexual lifestyle"? ANd, if a "homosexual lifestyle" is merely based on who you choose to sleep with, then how can that be 24 hours a day?

    I guess I don't see how being "homosexual" is something that happens 24 hours a day, while being a liar is something that only happens when you're a liar. The only way I am able to understand that is that in the case of the liar the sin (lying) is viewed as separate from the sinner, while in the case of homosexuality the sin (homosexual sex) is seen as inseparable from the sinner. If I'm wrong here, let me know. I'd like to have a clarification of your views because I'm unable to make much sense of them with the information I have.

  13. #88
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    You had it nearly right: I see homosexuality as being more tied in with who the person is. Things like sexual preference majorly effect all that we do. Now, I'm sure that in some extreme cases, a liar can be that sort of person all the time, but it's obviously not a common thing.

    A homosexual lifestyle is one led by someone who has homosexual sex. They mate with the same gender. I don't believe it to be just an act, but rather, an all-encompassing type of thing. Some other sins are the same way. It's really a matter of degree. Extreme cases with other sins can certainly be made.

    I don't claim to have this down pat, but I see sexual preference as a major choice. Someone who chooses to lead a homosexual lifestyle is very much changing their entire life around. I see it as more entangled with who they are.

  14. #89
    Dumb PHP codin' cat
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    What if drinking alcohol made your father kinder and more relaxed towards you all? What if he was only pleasant when drunk? Using your example above as a template of sorts, wouldn't that make his drunkenness a good thing as well?
    Chris, believe what you want, but if my dad was only happy when he was drunk, then he really wouldn't be happy now would he, since his sense of judgement is impaired, how can he know truly how he feels.

    On the other hand acknowledging to oneself the thought of being different from others and being okay with it is being true to yourself. And that my friend is what makes a good human being. Thats it as far as I am concerned, its not how little you have sinned that makes a person, well maybe it is for you. Someone who would have us believe murder is different, depending on the person being murdered. Murder is murder, sin is sin, homosexuality is homosexuality, so what. Sorry for the outburst, but if you can show me where God told you specifically that homosexuality is a sin, I will gladly listen. But please don't quote some apostle, that is not God.

    And another question if all these apostles were running around speaking for God back in the day, where are they today? You surely don't think those people on the tele raping people of a bunch of money, speaking the so-called word of God, are apostles of God right? And if they are, well it just proves my point about organized religion.

    I mean I have always thought of God as being the ultimate in humans, someone we should all strive to be like. But I also believe God would want us to be true to oursleves. So it seems to be a double-standard here, if someone is born homosexual, then according to you, they can never be right in the eyes of God.

    Now don't tell me God discriminates.

    One more question for the religious folks:
    Why is being homosexual so bad to you all. If its just because of your religious beliefs, I can accept that. But I mean has some homo tried to have his way with you or what? I mean we are just mere mortals, so why do insist on holding each other to unrealistic expectations?
    Please don't PM me with questions.
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  15. #90
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Here goes...

    Originally posted by freddydoesphp
    Chris, believe what you want, but if my dad was only happy when he was drunk, then he really wouldn't be happy now would he, since his sense of judgement is impaired, how can he know truly how he feels.
    It's a basic analogy, not meant to be taken 100% literally. Just because things turn out for the better, or a person is happy as a result, it doesn't necessarily mean that whatever got the person there was good as well. The ends may JUSTIFY the means (perhaps), but that doesn't always make the means a good thing.


    Originally posted by freddydoesphp
    On the other hand acknowledging to oneself the thought of being different from others and being okay with it is being true to yourself. And that my friend is what makes a good human being. Thats it as far as I am concerned, its not how little you have sinned that makes a person, well maybe it is for you. Someone who would have us believe murder is different, depending on the person being murdered. Murder is murder, sin is sin, homosexuality is homosexuality, so what. Sorry for the outburst, but if you can show me where God told you specifically that homosexuality is a sin, I will gladly listen. But please don't quote some apostle, that is not God.

    And another question if all these apostles were running around speaking for God back in the day, where are they today? You surely don't think those people on the tele raping people of a bunch of money, speaking the so-called word of God, are apostles of God right? And if they are, well it just proves my point about organized religion.
    The people on the tele are just that: on the tele. They are not in The Bible. The Bible says it, and I believe it. It's as simple as that.


    Originally posted by freddydoesphp
    I mean I have always thought of God as being the ultimate in humans, someone we should all strive to be like. But I also believe God would want us to be true to oursleves. So it seems to be a double-standard here, if someone is born homosexual, then according to you, they can never be right in the eyes of God.

    Now don't tell me God discriminates.
    You're missing something incredibly crucial: none of us are "right" in the eyes of God! No one said I or you were any different from your father in that respect. True to ourselves? Well, how far do we take that? It's in our nature to do all sorts of evil things. It's only through common sense, guilt, and fear of punishement (or desire to not sin) that we hold back on our impulses. Are we not being true to ourselves?

    I also don't believe someone is born with a gene that makes them a homosexual. I believe homosexuality to be a mild predisposition, but not something that is a fact, or that is inevitable. I think of it as a pre-disposition to weight gain, or alcoholism, or any other such flaw. It's harder for some to resist than others, but that doesn't mean it's unavoidable.


    Originally posted by freddydoesphp
    One more question for the religious folks:
    Why is being homosexual so bad to you all. If its just because of your religious beliefs, I can accept that. But I mean has some homo tried to have his way with you or what? I mean we are just mere mortals, so why do insist on holding each other to unrealistic expectations?
    It is because The Bible says it is. Unrealistic expectations? Alcoholism can be a very tough thing to conquer, but it can be done, and I don't think any of us are out of line in heavily discouring it.

    If you don't believe in The Bible, then simply ponder this: it's not natural. I'd be amazed if any of you argue against that. It does not create children, it is, medically and mechnically flawed, and obviously not something our bodies are built for.

    Does that make it WRONG? Well, if you don't believe in God, or The Bible, it probably doesn't make any difference to you. If I did not believe in The Bible, and only believed it was un-natural, then I would have more mixed feelings: I've read that suicide rates are higher among homosexuals, and obviously we've all heard that they tend to spread STDs faster than most other people. I can't really say where I would stand if The Bible were not an issue.

  16. #91
    Prolific Blogger silver trophy Technosailor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by freddydoesphp
    Time for my 2 cents.

    What really made me start writing this thread, is the complete lack of compassion for our fellow man/woman. God teaches us not to judge, but it seems all the religious folks do is judge. You are a sinner because of this, you did that, oh man you are going to hell.

    If it ain't hurting you directly, then what the hell do you care anyway?
    PHP,

    steady, man. While I deeply regret that you have misinterpreted my feelings as well as other Christian's on this list feelings about homosexuality as being uncompassionate or condemning, I do feel that some clarification is necessary. If you have read some of my previous posts in this thread you will see that my best friend told me 2 years ago that he was gay and that he had always been like that and was only then admitting it. To this day, we are still very close. Unfortunately, he lives in Connecticut and I live in MAryland but we keep in touch regularly. I have a special place in my heart for the CHRISTIAN, one who has confessed his weaknesses and sins to God and has accepted God's forgiveness and grace as outlined in the book of romans (Romans 3:23, 6:23, 10:9-11), who is a homosexual. I have made no inference that I believe the homosexual has anymore in the sin department than I do.

    Now please hear me, the Bible does say that homosexuality is a sin. I believe the Bible IS the Word of God, even though, yes, it was written physically by humans, it was inspired by God. It says it in several places that homosexuality is a sin. I Cor. 6:9, Lev 18:22-23, Romans 1:24-27. Time and time and time again it is repeated in Scripture.

    But just because homosexuality is consistently named a sin, the evidence of God's grace for sin and for the sinner are also repeated throughout Scripture. He's not willing that any should perish or die because they have sin in their lives. The wonderful thing about God is that no matter what we have done, we are always acceptable to God...that is acceptable if we accept the forgiveness and grace He offers.

    So please understand me. I don't condemn the sinner, whether he be a homosexual, murderer, liar or a cheat. I don't condemn the SINNER. I do condemn the sin, not because I am judging but because the Word of God has done the judging. I don't think my friend Dave is right in his choice of lifestyle. He knows I don't. We have had a lot of discussions about it. I love him, and I don't mean in a homosexual way. I love him because 1) he's one of my closest friends and 2) JEsus loved him enough to die for him, the homosexual, too. So if for no other reason, I love him because Jesus loved him.

    My apologies if you have been offended by me. It has not been my intention.

    God bless.
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  17. #92
    ********* Callithumpian silver trophy freakysid's Avatar
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    Could someone please explain whether the bible bans all eroticism/affection between males or just sodomy specifically?

  18. #93
    Destiny Manager Plebius's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TWTCommish
    You had it nearly right: I see homosexuality as being more tied in with who the person is. Things like sexual preference majorly effect all that we do. Now, I'm sure that in some extreme cases, a liar can be that sort of person all the time, but it's obviously not a common thing.
    Thanks for clearing that up. I think I understand now, though I still disagree.

  19. #94
    Destiny Manager Plebius's Avatar
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    Originally posted by freakysid
    Could someone please explain whether the bible bans all eroticism/affection between males or just sodomy specifically?
    That probably depends on how literally you take any given passage, which supposedly lends support to such a ban on same sex relations.

  20. #95
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Kissing your father and loving him as a son should love his father is obviously not a sin. I think the line is drawn in the same place it is with men and women: lusting after them is a sin.

  21. #96
    SitePoint Zealot
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    I believe in freedom.

    A person should be free to pursue "life, liberty and hapiness"

    I believe that, as the US Constitution says, GOD gave these rights to men and they cannot be regulated by a Government.

    Now, from a spiritual standpoint, I belive that some things are more healthy than others and that anyone will gain more happiness by doing certain activities than others. At the same time though, each should be free to live his life.

    We as Chrisitians get nowhere by telling people they are wrong and sinful. Look in the Bible, the only people that were spoken evil of were those who were Christians who were legalistic and burdening others with their hypocrisy.

    Those outside the religious community were Jesus's best freinds. It's were he was most comfortable.

    If we truly want to help people, we'll try to help them emotionally rather than telling them they are going to Hell. For I know many miserable Christians and many happy "sinners."
    Come get 5,000 Full Color - High Gloss(front and back) business cards for only $270!
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  22. #97
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    We as Chrisitians get nowhere by telling people they are wrong and sinful. Look in the Bible, the only people that were spoken evil of were those who were Christians who were legalistic and burdening others with their hypocrisy.
    Uh, and what are you basing that second sentence on?

    As for the first: if that's ALL we do, then you're right, but introducing the concept of sin to some people who have not heard of such a concept is obviously a good thing.


    If we truly want to help people, we'll try to help them emotionally rather than telling them they are going to Hell. For I know many miserable Christians and many happy "sinners."
    It seems obvious you've run into many people who threaten people with hell. Believe me, we're all in agreeance that it is simply a bad way to witness.

  23. #98
    Destiny Manager Plebius's Avatar
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    Originally posted by heavy

    A person should be free to pursue "life, liberty and hapiness"

    I believe that, as the US Constitution says, GOD gave these rights to men and they cannot be regulated by a Government.
    Sorry to be pedantic, but from my discussions with people about abortion, there were those who claimed the constitution granted the right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". Actually, it was the Declaration of Independence those words are from. (A document which has no legal basis, btw.) The constitution does not mention God, and only states that Government may not "deprive [the accused] of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law".

  24. #99
    will code HTML for food Michel V's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TWTCommish
    I've read that suicide rates are higher among homosexuals, and obviously we've all heard that they tend to spread STDs faster than most other people.
    These are very annoying pre-judged assumptions. Why do you think their suicide rates are higher ? That's BECAUSE OF CHRISTIANS LIKE YOU. Do you only know how hard it is to live under constant social pressure like they do ? Do you only know how it's hard to love people around you and see that they reject you as a sinner just because you happen to like people of your gender ? Such kind of life is not very enjoyable.
    They're not committing suicide just because they're homosexual. They're committing suicide because the social pressure pushes them to.

    Also, about STDs: we hear more about theirs, why ? Because homosexuals are more open than the average person about their sexuality. Do you think it can be of any interest for a christian person to talk about their sexuality ? Of course not, this casts the shadow of sin on them. But STDs are spread among "normal" people aswell.

    Sorry, but both statements were ignorant and homophobic. I am not blaming you, that's just what you've read.
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  25. #100
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    ...I think suicide rates in young men are pretty high in general actually.

    ANYWAY...

    Originally posted by bman
    sweet.. is she cute? if so, can i borrow her?
    Yeah she is actually!
    She's a feisty one - she'll b1tch slap yo' a55 if you get frisky...
    She has guys cracking onto her all the time, but she doesn't take any sh1t - if they push it to far she bites! (and I ain't talkin' no pleasurable nibbling...)

    BTW - why would someone want to put their wife through the pain of anal-intercourse when they can just do it doggy-style?


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