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  1. #1
    SitePoint Zealot micmar's Avatar
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    who's into home theatre?

    I have recently been getting into home theatre (or theater for the Americans ) and was wondering who else around here was into it.

    So feel free to post your H.T. systems, questions and the like here.

    Micmar
    http://www.avgallery.com.au/ - Your ticket to high-end audio!

  2. #2
    SitePoint Zealot micmar's Avatar
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    mmj - in reply to your post from the other thread, I have seen the "DRC" progressive from sony and it isnt true progressive, although it does improve the picture. Basically as you said all it really does is double the lines.
    True progressive uses 2-3 Pull-down progressive Scan technology.

    As for waiting for TV's to come out with this technology, well wait no longer mate - there here! So far I have found two companies making progressive scan TV's.

    1. Toshiba City Face Pro - Models 29D9 (68cm), 34D9 (80cm).

    http://www.toshibatv-asia.com/austra...tyface_pro.htm

    They do a great job of explaining the technology they use so you should check it out.

    2. Panasonic - Models TX-68P200A (68cm), TX-76PW05A (76cm widescreen), TX-80P300A (80cm)

    http://www.panasonic.com.au/pa_main/...rl.cfm?CAT=CTV

    These new panasonics look sweeeeet! I have seen all of these models as well as the Toshiba's at Myer Megamart. You should go check them out when you get a chance.

    mic
    http://www.avgallery.com.au/ - Your ticket to high-end audio!

  3. #3
    One website at a time mmj's Avatar
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    Originally posted by micmar
    True progressive uses 2-3 Pull-down progressive Scan technology.
    3-2 pulldown is something entirely different, but nevertheless I believe you are correct in saying that Sony's DRC is incapable of using actual progressive signal as input. It still looks beautiful though, when viewing regular television signal. Coupled with Sony's superior colour and contrast (as made famous by their trinitron line since the 70's) stands out in any comparison (in the price range!).

    Unfortunately my budget does not extend to spending more than a few hundred dollars on a television screen (or any screen) at the moment but in the future I hope to invest in some decent equipment.

    Yep, 576p is the progressive version of PAL signal, which is equivalent to 50fps. It is a doubling of resolution, which replaces the current 25fps interlaced standard. 480p is the equivalent for NTSC.

    I believe that the high definition version of pal would have 1296 scan lines, and thus a progressive PAL HD would be "1296p" but I am not sure! The high definition version of NTSC would be 1080 lines, I believe.

    When film is shown on NTSC, regularly, it has to be adjusted using a process called 3-2 pulldown which has a serious negative impact on it. That's why movies always look so much poorer on NTSC systems than PAL.

    If anybody has more info on HD signal, progressive or otherwise, and maybe even 24p signals, then please chirp in
    [mmj] My magic jigsaw
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  4. #4
    SitePoint Zealot micmar's Avatar
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    Ok, I have found a good, easy to read explanation of what progressive scan is and how 2-3 pulldown works... and my wallet didnt like me reading it. The new Panasonic TV's I mentioned are "digital ready" and are therefore able to use progressive scan DVD signal to its full advantage, so I will need save a lot more before getting my TV

    Anyway here is the article.

    http://www.cnet.com/electronics/0-32...-1.html?tag=ld
    http://www.avgallery.com.au/ - Your ticket to high-end audio!

  5. #5
    One website at a time mmj's Avatar
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    Yes. The 2:3 pulldown (not to be confused with 3:2 pulldown) is required only for north american systems.

    When a movie is encoded for playback on NTSC systems, a process known as "3:2 pulldown" (not 2:3) is used in order to allow the 24fps movie to run on an NTSC television which has 30 Hz interlaced signal.

    The 2:3 pulldown feature that your article speaks of is sometimes referred to as "2:3 pullup" - to avoid confusion with "3:2 pulldown". 2:3 pullup is what a DVD player can do to an NTSC movie to allow it to play back on a progressive device such as a computer screen or newer television/projector. It is a reversal of the 3:2 pulldown process and it returns the quality to the equivalent of what it would be without 3:2 pulldown altogether.

    Below is a quote from the article:

    One big feature that will be in any progressive-scan DVD player worth its salt is 2:3 pull-down circuitry. This tiny bit of silicon makes all the difference with your movies, by helping differentiate between the 24fps (frames per second) frame rate of film and the 30fps frame rate of video. In plain English, it smoothes out the picture and virtually eliminates what we in the industry call jaggie artifacts.
    This quote stinks a bit of marketing hype. It overemphasises the function of 2:3 pullup. It is only needed for video from a movie that is encoded to NTSC and then played back on a progressive system, and therefore removes the motion artifacts. It doesn't smooth out the picture, it smooths out the motion, but only to the point where the motion is as smooth as it would be anyway on PAL or in the cinema.

    Oops, yeah - it is only relevant to North Americans (and I think Japan?). But I suppose 2:3 pullup would make a difference to them.
    Last edited by mmj; Jun 16, 2001 at 06:20.
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  6. #6
    SitePoint Zealot micmar's Avatar
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    Originally posted by mmj

    This quote stinks a bit of marketing hype. It overemphasises the function of 2:3 pullup. It is only needed for video from a movie that is encoded to NTSC and then played back on a progressive system, and therefore removes the motion artifacts. It doesn't smooth out the picture, it smooths out the motion, but only to the point where the motion is as smooth as it would be anyway on PAL or in the cinema.
    I thought as much. Its amazing how much crap marketing departments can cram down your throat. NTSC really is the worst format, PAL puts it to shame I think.
    http://www.avgallery.com.au/ - Your ticket to high-end audio!

  7. #7
    One website at a time mmj's Avatar
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    It's just unfortunate that NTSC chose 30 frames per second - and they've had to put up with 3:2 pulldown as a result of it.

    Also, the colour space in NTSC is more complex and more subject to problems. NTSC colour space has lots of restrictions because of the way colour is encoded. I've heard that weak signals are more likely to turn people's faces blue or green in NTSC. Maybe an extreme example.
    [mmj] My magic jigsaw
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