Contest Standards

[tsion]

just for the record, this isn't about dictating or setting standards. It's about designers aspiring to a list of standards.

those who want to, can add it to their signature. Those who don't, don't need to worry about it

*edit*
These standards are NOT Sitepoint standards or guidelines, these standards are for those who wish to show thier support for the contest forum by following these standards.

Please post the contest standard you would like to see here.
These standards are not set forth by the Moderators, but by the members. Each standard will be listed and voted upon by the contest forum members.

You can identify each member that agrees to hold to these standards by the following signature at the end of each individuals posts:

*insert signature here*

[tsion]

As each standard has been voted in it will be listed here:
To add a standard for voting, please use a short keyword(s) to describe the standard to be implemented.
To vote for a standard, please quote the keyword(s) and a yes or no. Any extra comments in your vote and it will not be counted.

1. Waiting.......
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[tsion]

Any suggestions for a signature line?

[Egor]

No suggestions at all. The rules work just fine for me.

[Ainslie X11]

Link http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253855

I'd thought worth adding so both are read as one in the same until a transition is made.

[Ainslie X11]

tsion - are we still focusing on a signature line ?

[tsion]

tsion - are we still focusing on a signature line ?

Yes.

[Shyflower]

In my opinion, the contest standards should be set by the administration of Site Point, not the members. No matter what we agree or disagree with, this is not our domain. All "members" are in reality only guests of the owner of this domain.

We can offer suggestions for improvements we'd like to see, but we don't have the right to make our own sets of rules.

[tsion]

hmm. seems the other thread has disappeared. Anyone know where it went?

[Ainslie X11]

yes - it got *zapped*

just for the record, this isn't about dictating or setting standards. It's about designers aspiring to a list of standards.

those who want to, can add it to their signature. Those who don't, don't need to worry about it

[Varelse]

hmm. seems the other thread has disappeared. Anyone know where it went?

Too much accusations on both sides, not clear situation - anyway, not the issue to be discussed in public.
The thread was most likely removed by moderator.

[tsion]

In my opinion, the contest standards should be set by the administration of Site Point, not the members. No matter what we agree or disagree with, this is not our domain. All "members" are in reality only guests of the owner of this domain.

We can offer suggestions for improvements we'd like to see, but we don't have the right to make our own sets of rules.

Linda,

Like Ainslie said. We are not trying to force anyone into these standards. We are trying to form a group that will set PERSONAL standards for conduct in the contest forum. By adding a signature to your posts, it will show others that you've agreed to abide by these standards.
This is not something that will be enforced by the admin or any one person. Everything we do will be done as a group. All standards and rules we agree to follow will be voted on by the group.
Again, these will NOT be Sitepoint standards, but PERSONAL standards. There is NO requirement to follow these standards.

I think this can be a great asset to the quality of the contest forum. Please support this effort.

Tsion

[tsion]

yes - it got *zapped*

just for the record, this isn't about dictating or setting standards. It's about designers aspiring to a list of standards.

those who want to, can add it to their signature. Those who don't, don't need to worry about it

I think we should include more than just designers here. I think the contest holders should be involved also.

Tsion

[tsion]

Too much accusations on both sides, not clear situation - anyway, not the issue to be discussed in public.
The thread was most likely removed by moderator.

I know it was a moderator action, but I was wondering if they moved it, or just deleted it.

[phacker]

1. I agree not to comment on other designs until a contest has completed. Unless directly to the designer through pm.
2. I agree not use elements conceived by other designers. No matter what the contest holder would like.
3. I agree not to provide free stationary or other types of mockups unless duly compensated and stated at the start of the contest.

Just a few things I came up with.

Pat

[tsion]

1. I agree not to comment on other designs until a contest has completed. Unless directly to the designer through pm.
2. I agree not use elements conceived by other designers. No matter what the contest holder would like.
3. I agree not to provide free stationary or other types of mockups unless duly compensated and stated at the start of the contest.

Just a few things I came up with.

Pat

Great start Pat. But we need a reference word(s) to post a vote on. So that the votes will be easy to tally. Also, I think we need a time limit and a minimum number of votes before a standard becomes final. I was thinking 11 votes, and that 3 days maximum for voting unless the 11 votes are not reached, then it will extend until the 11 votes has been reached.

Maybe the voting could look like this:

phacker 1 - yes
phacker 2 - yes
phacker 3 - yes

What's everyone think?

Tsion

[tsion]

phacker 1 - yes
phacker 2 - yes
phacker 3 - yes

[Ainslie X11]

phacker 1 - yes
phacker 2 - yes
phacker 3 - yes

[Sarah]

the other thread was removed as people felt it was a place to air their feeling against other members.

also I am not sure I am happy you guys setting out your own rules, at the end of the day we set the rules here, having your own rules will not mean you are outwith what happens at sitepoint at all.

I would rather you came to us with your ideas than trying to run this forum yourselves? especially as there are many factors involved with this type of forum and they sometimes are not as simple as you think.

[kohoutek]

In all honesty, I find the bicker-ing between designers on what to do or what to not do a lot more unnerving than if someone says "cool design" to a fellow designer or similar notes. Nor do I see a problem if someone uses a symbol that someone else used if it is pretty logical to do so for a given subject.
Doesn't mean I'd do it. Doesn't mean others should not do it. Fact is, who is anyone to tell someone what to do or not do? I personally would see it as a real turn off if the Sitepoint rules dictated to me what phrases I can and can't say. Secondly, I would be pretty insulted if I were a contest holder and designers kept on implying that I - as a contest holder - am too gullible to form my own opinion of what a suitable design for my own project is and therefore ask fellow designers to kindly not comment on what they might or might not favour. I do believe that no one should be given such judgement.


Like I said in the thread that got deleted, I firmly believe in individual responsibility. We all have a brain and our ethics by which we design and communicate. Ethics are subjective and it's useless to form a "standard" when we're obviously a very mixed crowd of different people with different standards and different ideals. I don't have to agree with what person a does. I might agree with person b though. In the end, it's not my decision nor do I feel the need to control what others do or don't do. If I feel someone copied my design, I either report it to the moderators or pm the person in question. If someone does not feel like being creative and do something unique, it's their problem and I do not see how or why I should be concerned. And that is the core of the issue here. I am talking about "me". It's my subjective opinion. And it continues to be subjective and not based on any kind of facts. Therefore it makes little sense to me to adhere to a standard that is based on subjectivity. I think it's important to have individual responsibility and act accordingly and - simultaneously respect the fact that your own opinion on a matter might differ from that of a fellow designer, one being as valid as the other. I don't see where the harm in that is.

[tsion]

Obviously no one understands what we are doing here.

WE ARE **NOT** Trying to take over here.
WE ARE **NOT** Trying to make our own rules.
WE ARE **NOT** Trying to override Sitepoints rules.
WE ARE **NOT** Trying to force anyone to do this.
WE ARE **NOT** Trying to run the Contest forum.
WE ARe **NOT** Trying to control anyone.

The point of this was to come up with some standards that the more experienced designers would all follow (ON A VOLUNTEER BASIS). So that we might show the less experienced designers what kind of ethics we try to adhere to.
I've seen alot of new designers coming to the Contest forum, some that I doubt have any design experience at all. But to get the right kind of experience, I think they need a little guidance other than just a set of rules to follow.
I thought that by forming this type of group, we would provide the newer designers with a type of "role model". My opinion is that anyone starting out in something like this will advance better if they have someone or something to look up to and aspire to be like.
Maleika- Ethics are subjective, but what do you do with someone who doesn't even know what ethics are. There are alot of young people here. Some of them teenagers and are at a time in thier life where they don't really understand what ethics are, nor do they feel a need to.
Now don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that the younger people should not be allowed to compete in the forum. I believe just the opposite. I think this is a great place for them to start. However, they need to understand that there is more to this than just coming up with a design and following a few rules.

Sarah- You should know that all I'm trying to do here is help. And that's all I have ever tried to do. I have never thought of trying to run things here. I've never wanted anything, I've never asked for anything.
So, if you still think that i'm trying to take over or something. Then close this thread, and delete my Sitepoint account.

*note* this was not solely my idea. This is Ainslie X11's idea, I just happened to think it was a good idea, and helped implement it.

[kohoutek]

I do see what you mean and I do understand the thesis behind your reasoning.

However, I also believe that the designs that are displayed by contestants speak volumes for themselves artistically and I also think that - for the most part - it's the very creative ones that win usually.

To comment on the Ethics you mentioned. That is what I meant in my other response.
They are subjective and some - as you said - might not have any. But do I know?
Maybe they simply have ethics that I do not agree with, or you or someone else.

Just recently I have seen at least three threads where I felt that someone has been *seriously* influenced by the design of a fellow contestant and thought "what the?" ...
My reaction was that I shook my head and felt sorry for that person. But both times it was so obvious that I did not feel the need to respond even.

You mention role models. While I don't believe in role models per se, I do think that I see what you describe as inspiration and creativity. I am inspired by many artists on here and everywhere on a daily basis. And it's those two mediums where any of us have a huge amount of control and influence simply by being active and posting new designs or concepts in the contest area. I think that the designs that are showcased by whomever speak the most powerful of languages (good, bad, average, brilliant or whatever).

[tsion]

Makeika- You know, you have some very good and interesting points. I've been thinking about this for a couple of days now, and maybe it's time for me to just leave things alone. Maybe i've been trying to get involved in some place I shouldn't.
With that, I'm going to leave the contest forums alone. Not that I'll be missed there anyway.

I do have a couple more tutorials I want to write, so I think I'm gonna work on them.

Ainslie, sorry for backing out. I hope you understand.

Tsion

[Ainslie X11]

*lol*

I won't lose any sleep tsion, I usually lurk around helping others out with coding and only observe contest goings-on as I have client's who I 'point' here for design work.

I noticed alot of people who do contests sometimes have alot to vent, thoughts have been vented, so bravo in that respect.

[tsion]

*lol*

I won't lose any sleep tsion, I usually lurk around helping others out with coding and only observe contest goings-on as I have client's who I 'point' here for design work.

I noticed alot of people who do contests sometimes have alot to vent, thoughts have been vented, so bravo in that respect.

Cool, Hope I run into ya again. I might need a little coding help once in a while.