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  1. #76
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Hellbent
    Richard Nixon was the last great American leader. He pulled us out of Vietnam and Enacted the EPA. He was a great man.
    Cough-splutter, WATERGATE.

    If JFK hadn't been knocked off, there wouldn't have been a Vietnam war.

  2. #77
    Fried Gold Polymath's Avatar
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    Hellbent:
    I generally can't be bothered posting this kind of stuff because it's so obvious but since your post quoting me contained no facts (except for some irrelevance about Richard Nixon, the famous liar who was forced to resign) ... (deep breath)
    Wake up and smell the new millenium, pal. Your pal the toxic Texan is in bed with big business and couldn't care less about anyone else. Let me explain a bit to you about Bush as Governor of Texas.
    In water quality and air quality, Texas has the worst record of any big state.
    Houston is officially more polluted than LA.
    Texas produces TEN TIMES more pollution than New York.
    Texas also produces half the US's hazardous waste.
    Texas had more smog alerts last year than any other state.
    Texas discharges more carcinogens into the atmosphere than any other US state.
    Texas ranks first in toxic releases to the environment, first in total toxic air emissions from industrial facilities, first in toxic chemical accidents, and first in cancer-causing pollution.
    The next four largest Texan cities are within a hair's breadth of violating federal environmental standards (and you have to pollute a lot to do that, as your standards are so lax, thanks to people like you and Bush. What was it? I'd rather see a little pollution than people lose jobs? As if that's the choice? Pollution or jobs? Hah! Do you have an argument that makes sense?)
    Bush scrapped virtually every environmental Act that Clinton put through in his final year.
    As President, Bush gave oil companies carte blanche to go and explore for oil in in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. I bet the Alaskan people will be happy to see Alaska go the way of Texas. Not.
    Are you seeing a pattern here, Hellbent. Do you think any of this would be happening if Bush hadn't scrapped environmental protection acts, emission-testing and other safeguards? Or put in place legislation in Texas that meant emissions reductions take place on a VOLUNTARY basis. How many companies do you think have VOLUNTEERED to do that?
    Texas's budget, balanced according to Bush, is actually 610 million dollars in debt.
    There are 1.5 million children in Texas without health insurance. These children are eligible for it, but the under Bush the state took great pains NOT to have them informed, as the budget wouldn't balance if they did. Not that it does anyway.
    A REPUBLICAN Texan legislator (unnamed) said to the New York Times: "I actually hope Bush loses just so he'll he have to be here to face the mess he's made."
    Bush has fought for property tax breaks while denying children elementary healthcare. For most of his time, the welfare allowance for a woman and two children was $188 a month , recently raised to a princely $201. That's right, $16 dollars a week each. That'll come in handy when they get cancer, won't it? I wish you were poor for a week or two, Hellbent, you might learn something.
    President Bush has canceled a health regulation that would have reduced allowable levels of arsenic in U.S. drinking water from 50 parts per billion (ppb) to 10 ppb. According to the U.S.
    Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), arsenic in drinking water causes cancer of the skin, lungs, bladder and prostate in humans.
    The World Health Organization has set 10 ppb as its standard for arsenic in drinking water.
    EU member nations are specifically prohibited from adopting a standard less stringent than 10 ppb.
    Burning coal is a major source of Arsenic.
    Coal companies are a major (millions of dollars) source of Bush's campaign funds. But surely that's irrelevant? Surely? He wouldn't let the fact that they gave him millions sway his impeccable judgement, would he?
    The toxic Texan recently announced he was abandoning his
    campaign promise to regulate carbon dioxide emissions from power plants. You mean, he lied to get elected? He wouldn't do that, would he?
    So, in answer to your question, yes, Bush is explicitly involved in environmental carnage.

    But it's not JUST Bush, Hellbent, but all the people who think like you:
    "Ford Motor Company, which depends on sport utility vehicles for much of its profit, acknowledged today that they cause serious safety and environmental problems. In its first "corporate citizenship report," issued at the company's annual shareholders' meeting here, Ford said that the vehicles contributed more than cars to global warming, emitted more smog-causing pollution and endangered other motorists. The automaker said that it would keep building them because they provide needed profit..." NYT, 5/12/00. I guess you like that, you'd rather see a little pollution than those poor car workers getting laid off, right?

    Anyway, because they show exactly Bush's views on these matters, here's some quotes from the horse's mouth:

    ""This is Preservation Month. I appreciate preservation. It's what you do when you run for president. You gotta preserve."

    "Down in Washington they're playing with Social Security like it's some kind of government program!"

    And these tickle me silly!:

    "It's important for us to explain to our nation that life is important. It's not only life of babies, but it's life of children living in, you know, the dark dungeons of the Internet."

    "Will the highways on the Internet become more few?"

    "I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully"

    "There's a huge trust. I see it all the time when people come up to me and say, 'I don't want you to let me down again.' "

    Enough said.

  3. #78
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Holy hell (to coin a phrase) - you sure know your sh1t!

    Bush is a puppet, y'know it! - and daddy is pulling the strings.

    I thought Blair was bad but this guy is unbelievable.

    Originally posted by Polymath
    "Ford Motor Company, which depends on sport utility vehicles for much of its profit, acknowledged today that they cause serious safety and environmental problems. In its first "corporate citizenship report," issued at the company's annual shareholders' meeting here, Ford said that the vehicles contributed more than cars to global warming, emitted more smog-causing pollution and endangered other motorists. The automaker said that it would keep building them because they provide needed profit..." NYT, 5/12/00.
    Y'see - Redneck + RV's!
    (even worse when they put straight pipes on 'em!)
    I bet Bush has a big fat Ford Explorer!

  4. #79
    ********* Callithumpian silver trophy freakysid's Avatar
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    If a wealthy society can't even organise itself to provide universal health cover for its members - then what sort of society is it? Come on - this is the year 2001. Surely a civilised an prosperous society can manage to origanise to look after its own ill, and fragile? If society cannot govern itself adequately to provide health as a public service then what is the point of government? Does a child chose to be born into poverty? If society will not protect that child's basic health then what hope has your society?

  5. #80
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    A wealthy, and glutinous society.

    Put my potential Brother-in-law near a buffet and you'll see what I mean - he eats enough in one serving to feed an ethiopian family for a month.

    He's twice the man I am (and I ain't talking 'bout character traits!).

    Greed - cancer of the modern age.

  6. #81
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    DDT is a friend of mine....

    Geeze, to hear Polymath tell it, all Texans should be walking around with lung, prostate, brain and skin cancer......those that weren't born with 2 heads from all of the pollutants, that is.

    Where in God's green earth did you get all of that crap? I'm willing to bet that it's from some sort of Greenpeace or other Enviro-nazi bullet point newsletter. I'm also fairly certain that if someone had all day, they could find sources that would challenge most of it. Unfortuntely, I don't. Can you cite your source or sources?

  7. #82
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    I nearly choked in Hickory, NC - it was worse than London...

  8. #83
    Fried Gold Polymath's Avatar
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    Hey, don't shoot the messenger.
    http://www.txpeer.org/ToxicTour/tourintro.html
    is a good start for info on Texan pollution.

    Or try the Environmental Protection Agency. Here's a taster:
    http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress...2?OpenDocument

    Or: http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/Da...nic010321.html

    This is perhaps a little ham-fisted, but the points are valid:
    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...105601,00.html

    A bit about mercury:
    http://www.ewg.org/pub/home/Reports/...momay2001.html

    Biased or accurate?:
    http://www.salon.com/politics/featur...ing/index.html

    This is biased but contains facts:
    http://usliberals.about.com/newsissu.../aa032101a.htm

    A bit of number juggling by the democrats but quite interesting:
    http://www.100daysofbush.com/numbers/index.html

    A bit more from txpeer:
    http://www.peer.org/press/55.html

    Or voluntary (pah!) emissions reductions:
    http://www.tpj.org/Lobby_Watch/bushcares.html

    Bush rewards Texan pollutionpals:
    http://www.tpj.org/Lobby_Watch/grandpacabinet.html

    http://www.tpj.org/Lobby_Watch/simmons.html

    http://www.auschron.com/issues/dispa...feature10.html

    Anyway, if that doesn't convince you....

  9. #84
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Are you doing a Thesis or some'ink?

  10. #85
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Point by point....

    Originally posted by flux

    As I said before, some things in life you don't sign up for....How you can even think that all people who are poor are poor because it's their own fault. Seems like life always treated you well....well, believe me, it can be a real b*tch. Bad luck can ruin your life from one moment to another, with absolutely no reason at all.
    Life has never been easy for me until recently (because of good descisions and hard work). You presume to know me to well. I have been homeless and i speak from experience. If you want anything in life you have to work for it.
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  11. #86
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    Originally posted by polymath:
    For most of his time, the welfare allowance for a woman and two children was $188 a month , recently raised to a princely $201. That's right, $16 dollars a week each. That'll come in handy when they get cancer, won't it? I wish you were poor for a week or two, Hellbent, you might learn something.
    I have been poor. Obviously your research on my background is as skewed as your "facts" <-- I use the term loosely) on George Bush. I have earned everything i have and even when I was homeless i never lowered myself to accepting charity or welfare. If you ask me $16 dollars a week is too much, Get a job.
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  12. #87
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Shoot - is that all you get in the States?

    We get 40 (about $56) on the dole (welfare).

    But then we are paying nearly $5 a gallon for Gas (Petrolleum)...

  13. #88
    Fried Gold Polymath's Avatar
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    "are you doing a thesis?"
    No, I just read a lot. Usually three or four books a week and a few hundred web pages besides. If something interests me I follow it up. Not boasting in any way, I just can't seem to help it. Not necessarily anything useful, either, the side of a cornflake pack will do.
    Hellbent, I think the same way as you about a lot of things, hard work and self-reliance, whining social free-loaders and other 'gimme, gimme' type of people. But you live in Texas, I don't, I would like to know your opinion about the pollution there. Am I so wide of the mark?

  14. #89
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    Honestly I do not know the stats on our pollution levels. However I can you tell you there is no noticeable pollution here. I have been to California and on a hot summer day the smog is unbearable. However here in Texas where the average heat in the summer is 104 degrees I notice no such issues. The lakes hear are glorius and are always filled with swimmers and boaters. I grew up in Houston but have lived all of my adult life here in Dallas Fort Worth and pollution simply is not a factor. im sure other Texans can vouch for me on this.

    I love to go to the Guadalupe River in New Bruansville all the time and I go to Lake Travis in Austin alot. Pollution is not a big issue. Also here in texas we have very strict emissions controls. If your car does not pass inspection you can not drive it, simple as that.
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  15. #90
    You talkin to me? Anarchos's Avatar
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    woohoo, Texas is #1!

    Seriously though, Bush doesn't even represent 49% of the voters: the just represents 49% of the voters more than Gore does. So basically, if 5% Bush's campaign promises (not policy) coincide with the beliefs of 49% of the voters, while only 4% of Gore's campaign promises coincide with the beliefs of voters, Bush will get the votes of that 49% of the voters and win the election. He can then proceed to actually implement 1% of his campaign promises. We then get a success rate of about: .50 (approximate percentage of voters in the US) * .49 (percentage of voters who voted for Bush) * x (percentage of policy Bush implements that coincide with his promises, we'll make an optimistic guess of 50%) = z (success). This will be something like 12.5%.

  16. #91
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    Polymath,

    Ya know, that Txpeer outfit is so large and so incredibly influential, that their bulletin board, up since 1999, has 4 whole posts on it.....all by the webmaster. It's obvious that the public employee's of Texas are very concerned.

    I can post a whole page of links from sources that paint just as bad a picture for the environmentalists....but that won't convince you any more than you have convinced me.

    Bush isn't evil. Texas isn't evil. America isn't evil. As in most things, we are trying to balance fact vs. fiction, science vs. emotion, regulation vs. jobs, and production vs. environment. It aint always easy......Clinton had his shot, now it's the new guys turn. I'm sorry you don't like him, but that's the breaks.

  17. #92
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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  18. #93
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
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    I am actually interested in seeing that page of links sundown. I consider myself able to seperate fact from opinion, so could be easily swayed to a less "hippy lovey dovey "'liberal"' stance by some good solid "Bush is good for the environment" and "Texas is paradise" facts.

    H
    ~The Artist Latterly Known as Crazy Hamster~
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  19. #94
    SitePoint Zealot
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    How do you feel now that Europes leaders say they like Bush?

    Also- Shut the Hell up about Kyoto. Everyone of your leaders who crticize us for not signing it are HYPOCRITES because they have not signed it themselves.

    Also - Shut the Hell up about us polluting. We clean up more of our own messes than every other country in the world combined. We emit less pollution per capita than anyone. We adhere more closely to the international standards than *ANY* other country.

    Also - Shut the Hell up when you say that the US isn't supporting the world. We send TRILLIONS each year to OTHER nations. We send money to hundreds of nations each year. If it weren't for us, there would be many, many more governments collapsing into chaos.

    If it weren't for us the UN would be broke. We give more to the UN in manpower, equipment and cash than the other member nations combined. Yet, they berate us and try to tell us how to live.

    Also - when criticizing our "weapon systems" you can just shut the Hell up. We have a lot of enemies. These same enemies are countries that we are trying to bribe to keep them our friends. It eventually has to stop. We have a right to defend ourselves as a nation.

    Yeah, there is a reason we are the most powerful nation in the world. The way our country is set up has guaranteed our prosperity. It is because of socialist/communist morons in our government that our country is starting to fall apart.

    Because of influence from outside the country (read - people not minding their own business) we are having internal troubles.

    Why is it that people always pick on the US? We are so quick to bash the US. Why not focus the same attention on the REAL corruption that goes on in other places.

    WHAT ABOUT THE US BEING KICKED OFF THE HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION IN THE UN? Yeah, you think it's real great that we were replaced by Sudan - a place that has widespread unchecked FORCED SLAVERY.

    All you US haters know where you can stick it. And if you want more, you can come to Tulsa, OK and get it. Just let me know.
    Come get 5,000 Full Color - High Gloss(front and back) business cards for only $270!
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  20. #95
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    Well Euro-peons think the US is a sky blackening conceited self absorbed human rights crushing monster lead by and idiot. What most Euro-peons fail to realize is that the US does not give one tiny infintesimal pigeon **** what Europe thinks.. Were running a big country over here ok boys? Go make us some F@cking sauce you bunch of tea time polo playing fruits. When your country is big enough to wear the daddy pants then we can talk.


    P.S= Most of the afforementioned retoric was borrowed from last weeks Dennis Miller Live
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  21. #96
    SitePoint Guru sowen's Avatar
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    wow, like heavy heavy chill

  22. #97
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    Heavy you have to take country bashing with a grain of Salt. Either that or dish soem back.. Either way it is all in fun for me most of the time. The human rights Commision thing does piss me off though.
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  23. #98
    SitePoint Zealot
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    I tend to get excited because I was born the best country in the world and when I hear communist *** holes spouting off their rhetoric it makes me crazy.
    Come get 5,000 Full Color - High Gloss(front and back) business cards for only $270!
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  24. #99
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
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    I think you need to pause and reflect heavy - all you are doing currently is providing ammo.

    All of the points in your (somewhat abusive) post are rebuttabal, some are just ridiculous, but what is unacceptable is the aggresive nature of the post. This is a discussion forum, people have every right to disagree and voice opinion (in fact it would be incredibly boring if they didn't), but at no point need to start inviting violence.

    H


    (ps - nice to hear you were born in England )
    Last edited by TheOriginalH; Jun 21, 2001 at 02:23.
    ~The Artist Latterly Known as Crazy Hamster~
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  25. #100
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    ...for the record, I have never been near a Polo field, let alone played the game

    ...and I don't drink Tea...

    ...if America wasn't born, there would be no Dr Pepper - so I can tolerate a bit of abuse (unlike some...)


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