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  1. #51
    Pixel Junkie flux's Avatar
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    Originally posted by sundown
    Look, like it or not, the U.S. is now the sole superpower. That's not bragging, it's just a fact. The U.S. stabilizes the world economy through it's many, many MANY foreign aid committments, all the while providing security to most of Europe and the Middle East. Who goes in when Saddam Hussein get's frisky? Mostly us. Who goes in when the world community decides that Milosevic is killing too many innocents? We do. Who lost Marines in Lebannon, Air Force personnel in Saudi, Army pilots in Mogadishu, and on and on and on?
    Now that's exactly the egocentric attitude I'm talking about....thanks for proving my point. You are really convinced that the world is there only for you.....

    You guys are providing our security???? hmmmm. maybe 20 years ago....

    About the Invasion of Albania by the Serbes: Europe was crying for international action long before the US even admitted there was a serious problem...the problem was that without the support of the UN (and therefor the US), there was nothing we could do. So now you preted it was the US that decided that something needed to be done....what a joke. Imo the only reason the US started the bombing of Serbia was to keep the US Weapon industry running.

    About Irak....If there wasn't oil, there wouldn't have been an intervention...look at Central Africa: There are a lot of European Troops (French, Belgian,...) there, to prevent the Tutsis and hutu's from killing each other...I must still see the first American Soldier arrive.

    Who lost Marines in Lebannon, Air Force personnel in Saudi, Army pilots in Mogadishu, and on and on and on? We did too you know....In Irak, in Serbia, in Mogadishu,....

  2. #52
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Hey go easy - it is not his fault he is blinded by his own media's ineptitude...

  3. #53
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    What you see as arrogance, we see as standing up in the face of immense world criticism. An example would be Kyoto treaty....what a joke that thing is! 90-95% of so called "green house gases" are created by good old mother nature.

    To be fair, I should amend my statements about global involvement to include Britain....yes, you guys are always on board when the crap hit's the fan....I can't stand your Tony Blair, though I don't imagine you care what I think of him any more than I care what you think of Bush. (Thatcher was awesome, by the way....)

  4. #54
    Pixel Junkie flux's Avatar
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    Kyoto a joke....Have you ever asked yourself why the rest of the world DOESN'T see it as a joke? And why until now the US didn't either...you SIGNED it remember?

  5. #55
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    Hey, you'll get no argument from me about our media....they suck big time. They don't report the news, they create it. The BBC isn't any better, however.

    About the Invasion of Albania by the Serbes: Europe was crying for international action long before the US even admitted there was a serious problem...the problem was that without the support of the UN (and therefor the US), there was nothing we could do.
    Doesn't that kind of make my point?

    About Irak....If there wasn't oil, there wouldn't have been an intervention...
    Again, doesn't that make my point? Is the US the only user of oil in the world?

    We are always being accused of acting in our own self-interest. By the way, isn't that what a government is supposed to do?! What people forget is that what is good for us (free flow of oil, for example) is usually good for you.

  6. #56
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    Easy

    Have you ever asked yourself why the rest of the world DOESN'T see it as a joke?
    Sure, because they think it benefits them by sticking it to us, the evil, greedy, polluting Americans.

  7. #57
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    And why until now the US didn't either...you SIGNED it remember?
    By the way, ANYONE can sign the silly thing....but how come only Romania has RATIFIED it?

    Article
    Last edited by sundown; Jun 14, 2001 at 06:21.

  8. #58
    SitePoint Enthusiast norfett's Avatar
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    Originally posted by sundown
    (Thatcher was awesome, by the way....)
    Thatcher is a dimented homophobic know-it-all old bag who doesnt know when to keep her mouth shut*, yeah she did *some* good things but not many.

    She is in no way "awesome".


    *this is my personal opinion, and the opinion of many others too
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  9. #59
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Originally posted by sundown
    What you see as arrogance, we see as standing up in the face of immense world criticism. An example would be Kyoto treaty....what a joke that thing is! 90-95% of so called "green house gases" are created by good old mother nature.
    I thought it was down to Rednecks with straight pipes on their RV's?!



    You are right Sundown - Tony Blair is a puppet.
    Thatcher was the last TRUE British leader (despite her mistakes with the Poll Tax) - just like (I think) JFK was that last TRUE American leader.

    Both were removed by questionable means.

    To be fair - the BBC gives a clearer picture of the world as a whole - but it is still full of crap.

  10. #60
    Pixel Junkie flux's Avatar
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    Originally posted by sundown
    Doesn't that kind of make my point?
    imo: No, you said, and I quote:
    Originally posted by sundown
    Who goes in when the world community decides that Milosevic is killing too many innocents? We do.
    You make it look like we begged, and you helped us out. that's not the way it was....

    Originally posted by sundown
    Who goes in when Saddam Hussein get's frisky? Mostly us.
    again you make it sound like you're the world savers....while it was obviously an economicaly driven invasion.

    once again: It's normal that the US governement sets priority to problems within the US, but it is imo NOT right to pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist.

    Originally posted by sundown
    Sure, because they think it benefits them by sticking it to us, the evil, greedy, polluting Americans.
    This is, imho, another very egocentric point of view....It's not the world that tells the US to stop polluting, it's the world that decides something needs to be done on a GLOBAL base...and the US used to agree on this...

  11. #61
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    So many posts, so little time....

    This is, imho, another very egocentric point of view....It's not the world that tells the US to stop polluting, it's the world that decides something needs to be done on a GLOBAL base...and the US used to agree on this...
    It IS the world telling the US to stop polluting. Two of the biggest offenders, China and India, are not signators to the Kyoto treaty. Nor are many of the developing nations that will account for the majority of the increases over the next 10 years. President Clinton agreed to the treaty, over the strong objections of many here in the U.S. It was NOT ratified here, and like it or not, that's what it takes.

    just like (I think) JFK was that last TRUE American leader.
    Groan.

    Look, I've gotta go do some work, millions of people on welfare are depending on me! I'll catch you all later....have at me!
    Last edited by sundown; Jun 14, 2001 at 06:57.

  12. #62
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Well the rest of 'em seem to be lying toads...

    ...or puppets.

  13. #63
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Originally posted by flux
    It's not the world that tells the US to stop polluting, it's the world that decides something needs to be done on a GLOBAL base...and the US used to agree on this...
    That's because they remembered how much they like NASCAR, Drag-racing and V8 engines - but who'd blame 'em - BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRM!

  14. #64
    Pixel Junkie flux's Avatar
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    LOL z7,
    Thanks for adding some humour to this thread....it would have become a lot nastier without your comments...

  15. #65
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    No worries - I have humurous side
    (just don't get me onto Religion, or the Death Penalty!)

  16. #66
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    Well

    So what's wrong with the death penalty? No, no, no.....I'm only kidding!

  17. #67
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Polymath
    "IMO most of these people are the puppets of their media or whoever else is telling them their opinions."

    Aspen, the biggest puppet is George W Bush. He's quite happy to continue large scale pollution if it makes money, he's quite happy to let major corporations continue to pollute American towns, he's quite happy to let logging companies rip into conservation areas, he shows scant regard for the wider world outside America (like the US did just before Pearl Harbour). Big business paid his election ticket and now it's their payback time, damn the environment and damn anything that doesn't involve more cash for big business.
    And how convenient, anyone who disapproves of Bush is a puppet or a sheep.
    For the record I'm pretty right wing in many ways, and I think Bush is very close to criminal.
    Holy hell! You’re a tree hugger? I would rather see big business do a little polluting than to see mass layoffs and mass unemployment. Your one of those "Save a tree, kill a child" types. Until people like you wake up and realize that you CAN have big business that is environmentally conscious with EPA regulations, then we will all be forced to listen to your rantings. Just so you know a "Republican" by the name of "Richard Nixon" founded the EPA. Bush happens to be a republican as well. No one wants to see all the forest cut down and our water supplies and air polluted. It is unimaginable that someone can seriously believe that the president of the United States would ever be a party to such a thing. Grow up.
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  18. #68
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Wah!

    Originally posted by Shin Ma
    And FREEDOM IS FREE.
    Freedom is not free. You have to protect your freedoms. The moment you take them for granted they will slowly be stripped from you. the price of freedom is having to keep a constant vigil to protect it.
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  19. #69
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    Re: Wah!

    Originally posted by sundown
    Wah, I can't find a job, the government needs to give me money! Wah, I got pregnant and can't pay for an abortion, the government needs to pay for it. Wah, my great-great grandmother was a slave, the government owes me money! Wah, I smoked for 35 years and now I have cancer, the government needs to sue the tobacco companies. Wah, wah, wah.
    Damn Right! Where is the acceptance of personal responsibility today? Everyone wants a handout. Get a job, and some self respect!
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  20. #70
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Shin Ma
    It would be better if it was so easy to say NO, but how can you teach the kids to say NO if in the videoclips they see on MTV, all the women rolemodels say YES so easily ?
    So now it is the medias fault? Why not put the blame where it belongs. And contrary to popular beleif that is NOT on the parents. I blame the ones who put themselves in stupid situations. Anyone with half a brain knows television is not a rulebook for everyday life. And Shin-Ma in this day and age there are no role models left. People should look to themselves for strength and character.
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  21. #71
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Shin Ma
    I said it means MORE than money. You completely missed my points.
    Oh, free healthcare exists in most european countries. A small amount of your salary is given to the government for them to put it in a fund that's used to finance healthcare and retired people's care. (who cares for poor old people in US ?)

    By the way, what's on Bush's mind ?
    Poor people in the US are poor because of bad descisions. I have no pity for them. We have so many programs here in the US that if you take advantage of the system you can be productive and regain a stable place in soceity. No it is not easy, and that is good it should not be easy.

    Example:
    A single mother has 2 kids. She lives in a nice surburban home. One night her housecatches on fire. She loses everything she owns.

    Best case scenario: She made plans to this effect and had fire insurance. <-- Smart choice.

    Worst case scenario: She did not purchase insurance. <-- Bad Choice.. However it does not end here. In EVERY large american city we have shelters and centers for disaster victims and the poor. These centers usually all have plans that will get people back on their feet. It is not easy nor should it be. However it is possible.
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  22. #72
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Point by point....

    Originally posted by flux


    That is exactly the attitude I don't like: Europe is angry because bush/the US governement, doesn't care about the rest of the world. Since Bush became president, several international deweaponing and nature preservation treaties have been ignored by the US.

    It's normal that a governement sets priority to problems within the US, but it is imo NOT right to pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. The US always takes our (europe's) alliance for granted, and I think that when the US continues to act the way it is acting today, that will change....

    In a time of Global economy where all continents are more connected than ever before (American multinationals have their companies in Europe, as in asia, etc.), a world power can NOT just ignore the thoughts of the rest of the world.

    More and more I get an image of the US/Bush of a spoiled kid with two fingers in his ears singing "I can't hear you lalalalala...I do whatever I waaaaant....lalalalalalaaaa"
    Have you ever considered that just maybee in some stretch of the imagination it is not Europes place to dictate US policy to the US?
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  23. #73
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    Originally posted by z7
    You are right Sundown - Tony Blair is a puppet.
    Thatcher was the last TRUE British leader (despite her mistakes with the Poll Tax) - just like (I think) JFK was that last TRUE American leader..
    Richard Nixon was the last great American leader. He pulled us out of Vietnam and Enacted the EPA. He was a great man.
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  24. #74
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Shin Ma
    Oh, free healthcare exists in most european countries. A small amount of your salary is given to the government for them to put it in a fund that's used to finance healthcare and retired people's care.
    So it's not actually FREE then is it? YOU are paying for it, you just do it up front instead of when you need it.
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  25. #75
    Pixel Junkie flux's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Re: Point by point....

    Originally posted by Hellbent
    Poor people in the US are poor because of bad descisions. I have no pity for them.
    As I said before, some things in life you don't sign up for....How you can even think that all people who are poor are poor because it's their own fault. Seems like life always treated you well....well, believe me, it can be a real b*tch. Bad luck can ruin your life from one moment to another, with absolutely no reason at all.


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