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  1. #26
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    I've heard different Media report different things about Bush, some say he is for energy conservation (and I've personally heard him say that), others say he wants more fossil fuels. One thing they seem to all agree on is he wants more nuclear, which I think is just fine seeing as how countries like France have a greater concentration of nuclear plants than us - and nuclear power is cheap and safe.

    If he does indeed initiate drilling in Alaska I will be upset, but I'm not going to be a puppet of some TV media (not even all media, just some of it, even some liberal media says he emphasizes conservation)

    I'm not going to judge on what others tell me his policy is, I will judge on what the results of his policy is.
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  2. #27
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    Re: I'm a BAD American

    Originally posted by flux
    I think this sums it up quite good....
    Man...that RULES!

    Was that from Dennis Leary? It sounds like his sort of thing.
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  3. #28
    Pixel Junkie flux's Avatar
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    Re: Re: I'm a BAD American

    Originally posted by creole
    Was that from Dennis Leary? It sounds like his sort of thing.
    A texan Bush fan posted this at another messageboard...he said to be proud of this way of 'American' thinking.

  4. #29
    Fluffy Kitten Programmer~ Elledan's Avatar
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    Here in the Netherlands we've this saying: "De beste stuurlui staan aan wal.", which means as much as that the people who don't participate in something, often come up with the best advice/ideas/solutions.

    I think that this is also true in this case, with Europe and all other countries outside the US, commenting on events in the US.
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  5. #30
    will code HTML for food Michel V's Avatar
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    How surreal, I'm away from the Net (phoneline suspended for no reason) for a day, and I come back to a flaming accusation of ignorance and Creole who didn't understand the irony in "great plans"
    Originally posted by creole
    Heaven forbid they learn how to say No in the first place. However, I agree with you in this particular case. The most important thing is NOT to ban abortion, but to give teens and children good information. Keep them from ever having to make the choice about abortion to begin with. However, I AM anti-abortion though, just to you know.
    It would be better if it was so easy to say NO, but how can you teach the kids to say NO if in the videoclips they see on MTV, all the women rolemodels say YES so easily ?


    To get back on track, as someone mentioned the health security insurance system is really wicked, my girlfriend couldn't afford even just a medicine for flu because she wasn't employed at this moment...
    This is the "health is only for those who have wealth" statement that makes me cringe, and Bush's plans are not helping this at all.
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  6. #31
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    Wah!

    To get back on track, as someone mentioned the health security insurance system is really wicked, my girlfriend couldn't afford even just a medicine for flu because she wasn't employed at this moment...
    So why didn't YOU buy her some? Are you employed? Why not? Is that the governments fault too? Why is it that everyone always waits for the government to pull their butts out of the fire? How about some independence, folks? Freedom isn't free!

    Wah, I can't find a job, the government needs to give me money! Wah, I got pregnant and can't pay for an abortion, the government needs to pay for it. Wah, my great-great grandmother was a slave, the government owes me money! Wah, I smoked for 35 years and now I have cancer, the government needs to sue the tobacco companies. Wah, wah, wah.

  7. #32
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    - dude, that is SO true. (wah)

    we have similar problems over here, our Health Service is free but is a mess...

  8. #33
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    AMEN sundown...

    The concept of a socialized country is great in theory, but tends to fall apart in application.
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  9. #34
    Fried Gold Polymath's Avatar
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    >>>So why didn't YOU buy her some?

    I don't think that's the point, the point is that if you are unemployed in the US, or don't have the health plan, you could be dying in the street and get no health care. In the UK, health care is free for anyone. I'm not saying it's an amazing service, because in fact it is rather shoddy, but at least the principle of free health care is in place.
    (As an aside, I heard of people injured in the street in the US who have sued people who have helped them to the side of the road. Because they weren't medically competent to move them. So basically, people are rather loath to help people in street accidents and suchlike. Isn't that great?)
    Sundown, I agree totally with your other comments though.

  10. #35
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    We still have to buy our medicine though don't we?

    Or do you get it free when your unemployed? - I guess you do???

  11. #36
    Fried Gold Polymath's Avatar
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    Yup, medicine is (basically) free to the unemployed.

  12. #37
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Do you have sick pay in the US? (US'ers)

    I know you don't get paid holiday unless you've worked a few years, or something?...

  13. #38
    Pixel Junkie flux's Avatar
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    Originally posted by z7
    We still have to buy our medicine though don't we?
    Or do you get it free when your unemployed? - I guess you do???
    no, the thing is: everybody pays the same...employed or not employed. you don't need a private insurance to get a good price. Not everybody without a job is a bum (?). Look at the internet business...my girlfriend and I both work in this sector, it's absolutely possible that, in worse times, we both loose our jobs.

    The concept of a socialized country is great in theory, but tends to fall apart in application.
    there's a difference between a socialized country and a country with a good social security system.

  14. #39
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    damn those scurity measurments..... most American biggie slike Bill Gates and Bill Clinton have already got a cake in their face here in Belgium. I'll pay back teh cake for the one who takes on Bush this time!

  15. #40
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Flux - we don't! (although we have to pay for the bums)

  16. #41
    will code HTML for food Michel V's Avatar
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    Re: Wah!

    Originally posted by sundown
    So why didn't YOU buy her some? Are you employed? Why not? Is that the governments fault too? Why is it that everyone always waits for the government to pull their butts out of the fire? How about some independence, folks? Freedom isn't free!

    <-- Look over there, on the location field: Corsica is in Europe, so I'm a bit far. Of course if I was there I'd have helped her, I'm human after all.
    And FREEDOM IS FREE.


    Wah, I can't find a job, the government needs to give me money! Wah, I got pregnant and can't pay for an abortion, the government needs to pay for it.

    This is called social help. But maybe you don't even know the concept. It's old like the world, it may even appear in the Bible.


    Wah, my great-great grandmother was a slave, the government owes me money!

    You're not black are you ? Or else you would understand what this request means. Symbolically it means a real lot more than money.


    Wah, I smoked for 35 years and now I have cancer, the government needs to sue the tobacco companies. Wah, wah, wah.

    The government paid for a part of millions of people's medicine and health care, paid for anti-tobacco ads, still pays millions because of the tobacco industry (well, except the politicians who seem to earn a lot from tobacco lobbyist before elections), so the government has the right to sue the tobacco companies for not clearly stating their product is life-threatening.
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  17. #42
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    Point by point....

    So what if you are in Corsica? Wire her the money. Look, my point is simply this....the sooner you quit relying on the government to take care of you, the better off you'll be.

    We are getting to the point where everything is a "right". First healthcare is a right...then there is no incentive to live a healthy lifestyle.... Then a good job will be a right, so there will be no incentive to learn and increase your skill-set... Then a car will be a right, cause you've gotta have a way to get to your job, right? Heck, might as well make it all a right, then we can all sit back and relax, yes? Ooops....that leaves no one out there to pay for all of these "rights".

    THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREE HEALTHCARE. Someone pays for it, and last I checked, government gets their money from you and me!

    Yes, the Bible does speak of helping your fellow man...so let's get the government off of our backs and let US decide who we can help and how much we help them.....let's quit wasting most of the money on administrative bungling and corruption. Let's quit perpetuating the problem by allowing people to become dependent on our "help".

    As for slave reparations...no, I'm not black. But, I AM Polish, French, Lithuanian and Russian. Let's see now.....my great grandfather was killed by a German Fockewulf straffing a country road during WWII....Germany must owe me some cash for that. Hmmmm.....Germany also invaded my Polish homeland, that's gotta be worth something. Ahhh....many Russians were killed, also by Germany. Man, bad day for Germany, by my calculations, they owe me 1.35 million bucks! (I'll take a bank check or even a money transfer.) Wow, this is fun! How else were my ancesters wronged?

    Even though this is getting long.....the government also supports the beef industry, the sugar industry and countless other industries. Are we going to sue the beef farmers for giving us all clogged arteries and heart attacks? Are we going to make the sugar producers put warning labels on their products warning of tooth decay?

    Let's face facts. Generally speaking, in most cases, government is not the answer to you or anyone else's problems. YOU ARE. The sooner our friends overseas and here at home get this, the better off we will all be.

    Last but not least, as an American, I'm getting sick and tired of getting blamed for everything from global warming to Yoko Ono. As far as I'm concerned, the rest of the world and especially the UN can go fry ice. We will continue to do what we feel is right.

    </sermon>

    I'm really not a know it all, I just play one on TV.
    Last edited by sundown; Jun 13, 2001 at 18:59.

  18. #43
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    go sundown, go sundown, it's your birthday, go sundown
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  19. #44
    will code HTML for food Michel V's Avatar
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    I said it means MORE than money. You completely missed my points.
    Oh, free healthcare exists in most european countries. A small amount of your salary is given to the government for them to put it in a fund that's used to finance healthcare and retired people's care. (who cares for poor old people in US ?)

    By the way, what's on Bush's mind ?
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  20. #45
    Pixel Junkie flux's Avatar
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    Re: Point by point....

    Originally posted by sundown
    Last but not least, as an American, I'm getting sick and tired of getting blamed for everything from global warming to Yoko Ono. As far as I'm concerned, the rest of the world and especially the UN can go fry ice. We will continue to do what we feel is right.
    That is exactly the attitude I don't like: Europe is angry because bush/the US governement, doesn't care about the rest of the world. Since Bush became president, several international deweaponing and nature preservation treaties have been ignored by the US.

    It's normal that a governement sets priority to problems within the US, but it is imo NOT right to pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. The US always takes our (europe's) alliance for granted, and I think that when the US continues to act the way it is acting today, that will change....

    In a time of Global economy where all continents are more connected than ever before (American multinationals have their companies in Europe, as in asia, etc.), a world power can NOT just ignore the thoughts of the rest of the world.

    More and more I get an image of the US/Bush of a spoiled kid with two fingers in his ears singing "I can't hear you lalalalala...I do whatever I waaaaant....lalalalalalaaaa"

  21. #46
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    Well, my personal opinion is that the rest of the world acts like a spoiled teenager....

    Look, like it or not, the U.S. is now the sole superpower. That's not bragging, it's just a fact. The U.S. stabilizes the world economy through it's many, many MANY foreign aid committments, all the while providing security to most of Europe and the Middle East. Who goes in when Saddam Hussein get's frisky? Mostly us. Who goes in when the world community decides that Milosevic is killing too many innocents? We do. Who lost Marines in Lebannon, Air Force personnel in Saudi, Army pilots in Mogadishu, and on and on and on?

    How can you say the U.S. doesn't care about the rest of the world?

    Look, I'm not taking personal credit for the sacrifices made by countless American families for the world, I'm just trying to explain the attitude that you are beginning to sense coming from the US. For so many years, we have been the worlds policemen, doctors, engineers, etc. We have responded to every large scale foreign crisis in recent history. How are we treated in return? With contempt. With blatant disrespect. With comments like yours.

    I personnally get sick and tired of the whining and complaining from those overseas who benefit daily from our benevolence and influence in the world. But let the U.S. retreat from it's committments overseas just one iota, and THEN see how you feel. Let the U.S. quit the U.N. and hear the howls of indignation...

    What the world, and by that, I mean the United Nations, really wants, is the U.S. to submit to it's ultimate authority. They hope to slowly chip away at our sovereignty. Some here in the U.S. are OK with that...most are not.

  22. #47
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Originally posted by sundown
    Look, like it or not, the U.S. is now the sole superpower. That's not bragging, it's just a fact.
    Ahem - China - largest land army in the world and full nuclear capability.

  23. #48
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    Ok...

    Ahem....sure, if that's the only way you define power.....

  24. #49
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Originally posted by sundown
    Look, like it or not, the U.S. is now the sole superpower. That's not bragging, it's just a fact. The U.S. stabilizes the world economy through it's many, many MANY foreign aid committments, all the while providing security to most of Europe and the Middle East. Who goes in when Saddam Hussein get's frisky? Mostly us. Who goes in when the world community decides that Milosevic is killing too many innocents? We do. Who lost Marines in Lebannon, Air Force personnel in Saudi, Army pilots in Mogadishu, and on and on and on?
    Ahem - you seem to be forgetting us? YES - we were in Iraq, A WHOLE LOAD of us were in Bosnia, and oh yes - we were in Africa recently sorting their sh1t out.

    Just because your media only feeds you stuff about your own country, doesn't mean you are the only ones playing the game (I have seen your TV dude).

    I am not down on America - it has provided the world with much (like the Ford Motor Company - hoorah!) and I don't blame you for being arrogant as to you the world IS America - coz thats all you see of it (ammusing example - 'World' Series )

    Open your eyes.

  25. #50
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Re: Ok...

    Originally posted by sundown
    Ahem....sure, if that's the only way you define power.....
    How do you define it then?


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