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  1. #1
    SitePoint Wizard westmich's Avatar
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    US to Europe: Bush only represents 49% of us.

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  2. #2
    Blissed off
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    actually, he only represents 49% of those who voted! Very small number when you actually look at it...

  3. #3
    Destiny Manager Plebius's Avatar
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    But... a Gallup Poll in April put his approval rating at 65%

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    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
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    Approval rating of 65% I doubt, 49% of a small percentage of Americans gives me hope - I have yet to meet a single European who is in favour of Bush's leadership in the US.
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  5. #5
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    But you know what? I don't really care if Europeans favor Bush or not.

    No offense H, but do you care if I like Tony Blair?
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  6. #6
    ********* Callithumpian silver trophy freakysid's Avatar
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    I don't really care about Tony Blair. I don't even like the Australian Prime Minister (he's almost as bad as Bush except that at least he can claim to be economically responsible, not a fiscal meglomaniac like Bush). But I do know that I strongly dislike Mr Bush, but mainly because he is a moronic puppet. Its got nothing to do with him being American except that he is president of the most powerful nation on earth. I know that if I was a US citizen, I'd be pretty worried about the state of democracy in my country. I think it would be wonderful if we could isolate the USA from the rest of the world but alas we all have to live with the consequences of how the most powerful country in the world choses to engage with the rest of the planet while it belches out 75% of its greenhouse gasses.

  7. #7
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    Personally I'm impressed with Bush so far. It is no suprise to me that his approval rating is at 65% and I think it will only go higher. I was lukewarm about him at the election but he has definitely risen in my opinion.

    As for what Europeans think. There is a reason he's called The President of the United States.

    Besides the view of a foreigner is never a completely accurate one. Not living in the area they can only make judgements based on what the various media tells them.
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  8. #8
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
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    No offense taken Creole, but yes, I do think that internationally people should be aware of other nations leaders (as you clearly are) - if merely to indicate where society and international relations may be heading.
    Keeping things and opinions domestic is great (if not a little xenophobic), but wider implications of international relations (& in a commercial world, those relations have a direct bearing on your bread and water) will be entirely missed if foreign views on domestic opinion/leadership are ignored.

    Incidently, I would have been just as unimpressed with Mr Hague (Blairs oppo in the election) as I am with Bush (well, nearly) had he got in at the recent election here. I am also not a huge Blair fan (his education policy is closely related to my gym socks) - so I feel my scepticism is nicely balanced

    H
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  9. #9
    ********* Callithumpian silver trophy freakysid's Avatar
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    Originally posted by aspen
    Besides the view of a foreigner is never a completely accurate one. Not living in the area they can only make judgements based on what the various media tells them.
    This is a true point. My concern about Bush and his economic plan is that it will be a repeat of the disaster of Reagan. From a foreigner's perspective, the USA is a very inequitable society for such a rich country. But it is well known that the USA has a cultural tendency towards lazze-fare (sp?) government. That's not to say the any other country doesn't have equity problems. In purely economic terms however, the short-term fiscal stimulus of Bush's tax cuts will be a bonus for the global economy (and we won't have to burden the cost to society as this will be, in the long-run, borne by US society). It does however, set the world economy up for a big boom/bust cycle as the Regan years during the 80s.

  10. #10
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    laissez-faire
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  11. #11
    SitePoint Wizard westmich's Avatar
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    My concern about Bush and his economic plan is that it will be a repeat of the disaster of Reagan.
    Reagen's Era seen the largest expansion of our economy since WWII.
    But it is well known that the USA has a cultural tendency towards lazze-fare (sp?) government.
    IMHO, this is much better then over-active, socialist style government that run most of Europe.

    Not sure which country, but I want to say one in Northern Europe where when ticked by the police your fine is deducted on the spot from your bank account and the amount is based on what you earn.
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  12. #12
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    You know it really really makes me laugh at how many people vehemently dislike Bush, IMO most of these people are the puppets of their media or whoever else is telling them their opinions.

    Here is a fact for you.

    The US presidential race was the most evenly divided one in history. This is not because Bush and Gore were so opposite of each other that the people were strongly divided. This was because the two candidates were so close that many people were indifferent about who one.

    In other words the people were NOT strongly divided until after the election when many developed a sour "the other guy won attitude"

    So just remember that. I think many of you just hate for the sake of hating. The fact is both Bush and Gore had similar views on many issues, so you can't completely despise one while cheering the other. That just paints you as a hypocrit.
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  13. #13
    Destiny Manager Plebius's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TheOriginalH
    Approval rating of 65% I doubt
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/indicators/indfavor.asp

  14. #14
    will code HTML for food Michel V's Avatar
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    How can't I hate Bush ? Just so you know, I'm a socialist, so Bush's political plans are just the opposite of what I like to see in politics. This is not for the sake of hating.
    How can't I hate Bush ? Thanks to his great plans there will be more and more babymothers since the abortion will be made illegal. On this point the US isn't better than the islamic countries that they hate so religiously.
    How can't I hate Bush ? When minorities, especially Black people have been ignored in ballots or discouraged to vote in Republican States ?
    How can't I hate Bush ? As Freakysid said, he's just the puppet of the Corporate America.

    You see, even as a foreigner I can hate Bush with reasons.


    Also, who believes in such polls ?
    Last edited by Michel V; Jun 11, 2001 at 16:11.
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  15. #15
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
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    Thanks for the link, the poll actually makes entertaining reading - a little like web stats I felt...& similarly they'll help ya taylor yer content .

    I did not doubt that the poll existed, just its validity. It was based on registered voters, and realistically only registered voters that could be bothered to answer such a poll. Further, it is ridiculously easy to target a demographic which will give the results you want to present - something that the other polls use as a tool....

    I am not saying it is a lie, I just doubt its claims, which are clearly not gospel.

    I truly hope that the Bush term is a smooth and lovely one, for the sake of Americans as much as the rest of the world, but I worry that social engineering on a national scale is taking place and that Bush's ideals are incongruent with the majority of the rest of the planet (in deference to Sid, whether they are in fact his ideals or not).

    H
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  16. #16
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    How can't I hate Bush ? Just so you know, I'm a socialist
    Socialism is not a political system but an economic one, namely the opposite of capitalism. Socialism is usually the economic system of communist countries.

    So in other words you're saying you hate Bush because he is not a communist?

    Well.. good, I'm glad that he isn't a communist.

    On the other hand perhaps you simply did not know what socialism is, which of course paints all your other accusations in a shadow of ignorance as well.

    so·cial·ism (ssh-lzm)
    n.
    Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
    socialism \So"cial*ism\, n. [Cf. F. socialisme.] A theory or system of social reform which contemplates a complete reconstruction of society, with a more just and equitable distribution of property and labor. In popular usage, the term is often employed to indicate any lawless, revolutionary social scheme. See Communism, Fourierism, Saint-Simonianism, forms of socialism.
    Last edited by aspen; Jun 11, 2001 at 18:07.
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  17. #17
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    As for discounting polls, either do it as a whole or not at all. Remember these people are paid to be impartial, and the media in the US is liberal as well. Saying that a poll would unfairly favor a republican doesn't make much sense.

    But regardless, if you think this poll is tainted then the polls for clinton, gore, etc must all have been tainted too right?
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  18. #18
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Shin Ma
    Thanks to his great plans there will be more and more babymothers since the abortion will be made illegal.
    Heaven forbid they learn how to say No in the first place. However, I agree with you in this particular case. The most important thing is NOT to ban abortion, but to give teens and children good information. Keep them from ever having to make the choice about abortion to begin with. However, I AM anti-abortion though, just to you know.
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  19. #19
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    Go Chris....

    off topic for a minute, I spent about an hour today reading your Wilderness Survival site. It was fascinating. Made me look like I was working too.
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  20. #20
    Hi there! Owen's Avatar
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    Actually, the %age that voted of those who are registered to vote is VERY high... around 80 or 90%.

    The turnout is the same as in Europe or elsewhere for registered voters... it just happens a whole lotta more people are registered there.

    Owen

    Originally posted by wert
    actually, he only represents 49% of those who voted! Very small number when you actually look at it...

  21. #21
    Pixel Junkie flux's Avatar
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    Originally posted by aspen
    Socialism is not a political system but an economic one, namely the opposite of capitalism. Socialism is usually the economic system of communist countries.
    eh Hello???? Socialism=communism???? Bush is doing a real good job over there that's for sure....them dang' communist europeans...

    We (most european countries) have a society that is as capitalistic as the US of A, but we do have socially inspired governements. Are we communists...I think not!

    I just saw a documentary on America's health insurance system....another job well done! People without a job can't even pay for a normal doctor. I find that pretty hard to believe. The ones who need it most, cannot pay for a decent health insurance.

    A governement should protect the ones who need it the most! This can be done in a capitalist system..we're talking about regulation, not ultimate control (communism).

  22. #22
    Fried Gold Polymath's Avatar
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    "IMO most of these people are the puppets of their media or whoever else is telling them their opinions."

    Aspen, the biggest puppet is George W Bush. He's quite happy to continue large scale pollution if it makes money, he's quite happy to let major corporations continue to pollute American towns, he's quite happy to let logging companies rip into conservation areas, he shows scant regard for the wider world outside America (like the US did just before Pearl Harbour). Big business paid his election ticket and now it's their payback time, damn the environment and damn anything that doesn't involve more cash for big business.
    And how convenient, anyone who disapproves of Bush is a puppet or a sheep.
    For the record I'm pretty right wing in many ways, and I think Bush is very close to criminal.

  23. #23
    Destiny Manager Plebius's Avatar
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    Communism is a form of socialism.
    Not all communists are socialists.

    Here's the economic spectrum

    Socialism: Government or people own and in control of means of production. Overall economic equality. Centrally controlled economy

    Fascism: Government controls means of production, ownership still in private hands. (According to George Orwell, the owners become employees of the state, in effect.)

    Capitalism: Ownership and means of production in private hands.

    I'd say now we're moving toward the next stage, which aside from theoretical communism, is the only system not mentioned yet. That's the system where, unlike fascism where the Owners become subservient to the state, rather the state becomes subservient to the Owners. Owners being those who own and control the means of production.

  24. #24
    Destiny Manager Plebius's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Polymath
    he's quite happy to let logging companies rip into conservation areas
    I've often wondered why so many conservatives aren't all that conservative...

  25. #25
    Pixel Junkie flux's Avatar
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    I'm a BAD American

    I'm Your Worst Nightmare. I am a BAD American. I like big cars, big breasts, and big cigars.

    I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some mid-level governmental functionary with a bad comb-over who wants to give it away to crack addicts squirting out babies.

    I'm not in touch with my feelings and I like it that way.

    I think owning a gun doesn't make you a killer.

    I believe it's called the Boy Scouts for a reason.

    I don't think being a minority makes you noble or victimized.

    I don't celebrate Kwanzaa.

    I believe that if you are selling me a Big Mac, you'd better do it in English.

    I don't use the excuse "it's for the children" as a shield for unpopular opinions or actions.

    I want to know when MTV became such crap and when they're going to start playing videos again.

    I think Oprah and Rosie are big fat pigs.

    I think fireworks should be legal on the 4th of July.

    I think that being a student doesn't give you any more enlightenment than working at Blockbuster. This is ESPECIALLY true if you're
    a New York City law student.

    I don't want to eat or drink anything with the words light, lite or fat-free on the package.

    Hillary Clinton is a carpet-munching lesbian.

    My heroes are John Wayne, the Simpsons, and whoever canceled Full House/Bob Saget.

    I don't hate the rich. I don't pity the poor.

    I know wrestling is fake and I don't waste my time arguing about it.

    I think global warming is a big lie.

    I've never owned a slave, or was a slave, I didn't wander forty years in the desert after leaving Egypt, I haven't burned any witches or been persecuted by the Turks and neither have you, so shut-the-heck-up already.

    I want to know which church is it exactly where the Rev. Jessie Jackson preaches. And where does he get his money. And why is he always part of the problem and not the solution.

    I think the cops have every right to shoot `your sorry butt if you're running from them.

    I worry about dying before I get even.

    I hate those idiots standing in the intersections trying to sell me crap or trying to guilt me into making 'donations' to their cause.
    These people should be targets.

    I think beef jerky could quite possibly be the perfect food.

    I enjoy watching high speed pursuits, the more damage the better.

    I believe that it doesn't take a village to raise a child, it takes two parents.

    I think tattoos and piercings are fine if you want them, but please don't pretend they are a political statement.

    I think Dr. Seuss was a genius."
    I think this sums it up quite good....


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