SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    SitePoint Addict sdamos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    275
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    First CSS attempt.

    Greetings all,

    I am an amateur designer and have never had any training, but I got tossed into a position where I had to learn fast for a great friend and great individual. Most of you have heard of Don Mattingly, I got lucky enough to run his site.

    However, it is strictly HTML with some java script and it is certainly not impressive. That is why I am attempting to start over. I want to understand a few things first.

    If I design an XHTML page with CSS mixed in with it to force fonts to be a certain size (so no one can change it with their browser settings) and validate it, will it work in all broswers?

    For example, I tossed together a header graphic, not sure if I like the background yet, and some quick nav links and used CSS to define them. The CSS validates, the HTML does not simply because I need a few ALT tags on my dividers. My question is, if both the XHTML and the CSS validate using W3C then will the page load on all browsers without issue?

    Here is the example page:
    http://www.donmattingly.com/test/

    The white and grey areas are the body and footer regions that I have not had time to play with yet.

    What my intentions are, are to make the site extremly easy to navigate. I won't have any fancy java roll over junk or things like that. I want simply, fast loading navigation and pages. I would like to keep it as simple as possible and so everyone can use it. I had one person the other day tell me she could not see my paypal shopping cart buttons to buy something. I can't have that, no one can, can they?

    Thank you all for your support, I am anxious for your suggestions and guidance.

    Regards,
    Shannon Amos

  2. #2
    The MacGyver of Design bronze trophy Johan Dahlström's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Uppsala, Sweden
    Posts
    516
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    First: Unfortunately, a validated site doesn't mean that it will work properly in all browsers (hopefully one day it will!). And I'm sorry to say that there is no shortcut here, you'll just have to try it out in every browser you have available. There are lots of information on browser issues and how to fix them, so I suggest that you take a look at the FAQ and the stickies in the CSS forum and start surfing around. There's a lot of help there, so if you have any questions and drops it in that forum, I'm sure you're gonna get the help you want. I'm not sure how well you know CSS, but it's definitley a technique worthwhile to get real deep into .

    Second: If you want to have a fast loading page with easy navigation, tables as you're using now ain't gonna cut it. The same goes for your willing to let everyone being able to view it. Simply, tables aren't meant for page layout, and this has been discussed a lot so I don't think we have to go through that another time. Again, stickies and FAQs right here at Sitepoint will provide a good starting point. Check out the Accessibility and Usability forum too.

    So, my suggestion is to start surfing around and get a grip of the current "situation" todays web designers are in. It can be tricky and seem frightening, but don't run away... help is always near on Sitepoint (wow, catchy phrase ). I'll collect some link and update this post later.

    Good luck!
    http://www.johandahlstrom.se
    Not rebootin' on November 1st! (but shortly after)
    flickr



  3. #3
    SitePoint Addict sdamos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    275
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks!

  4. #4
    SitePoint Evangelist
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    581
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    +1 to Mr. Dahlström. Also, if you force your site to be all in one text size that the user can not change, you harm it's usability and break it's accessibility.

    Say Johnny comes along and wants to view your website. He has a problem, though - he only has about 25% percent vision in both eyes. Failing to have his screen magnifier adjust the size of the text, he decides to leave and go somewhere else - somewhere where he feels more welcomed.

    I don't truly know from experience, but the text size may also effect TTS (text-to-speech) devices.

    Just some thoughts for you to nibble on!

    Joe

  5. #5
    SitePoint Addict sdamos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    275
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sonds like more for me to get a headache over...

  6. #6
    SitePoint Addict sdamos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    275
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Can anyone direct me to some useful articles or websites that will tell me how to create a browser friendly CSS layout that I can then make look like the link I have above? I want to continue the template that way, I suppose I should lay it out in CSS though.

  7. #7
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy Nadia P's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    NSW Australia
    Posts
    3,564
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with using tables if that is what you are used to. The only time it will load a lot slower than a full CSS site is if it is a page full of nested tables, image rollovers etc.,

    As long as you use css to style all the elements on the page, I wouldn't worry too much about changing layout methods.

    Good Luck!

    Nadia

  8. #8
    SitePoint Addict sdamos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    275
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Nadia, PM has been sent to you. Any other advice is welcome folks. Thanks.

  9. #9
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy Nadia P's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    NSW Australia
    Posts
    3,564
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sdamos
    Nadia, PM has been sent to you.
    No problems, answered off forum :-)

    Nadia

  10. #10
    SitePoint Evangelist
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    581
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia P
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with using tables if that is what you are used to. The only time it will load a lot slower than a full CSS site is if it is a page full of nested tables, image rollovers etc.,

    As long as you use css to style all the elements on the page, I wouldn't worry too much about changing layout methods.

    Good Luck!

    Nadia
    On the contrary, I recommend going to a full-CSS layout for the exact reasons menitoned above. If you need more info, just ! Or, check out CSS Creator.

    Joe
    Last edited by BluDragon; Apr 8, 2005 at 18:05.

  11. #11
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy Nadia P's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    NSW Australia
    Posts
    3,564
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Also, (don't quote me on this) tables are slowly being deprecated in favor of CSS and may not be around within a year or so.
    I don't believe that and I don't need to google, I'm pretty well read when it comes to this stuff

    I think tables will be around for some time yet.

    My point is that if a person is more familiar with a tables layout, then stick with that until they are more comfortable going straight css.

    I just don't understand the CSS is the *only way to go* mentality :-)

    Nadia

  12. #12
    SitePoint Evangelist
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    581
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia P
    I just don't understand the CSS is the *only way to go* mentality :-)
    Likewise, I don't understand why people think that tables were ever meant for layout.

    Joe

  13. #13
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy Nadia P's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    NSW Australia
    Posts
    3,564
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    We'll have to agree to disagree then

    btw - I do design tableless so don't get me wrong. I have no problems in advocating css layouts at all. In some cases, it is best for a newbie to take it a step at a time, they can get quite overwhelmed being thrown into the deep end without knowing a scrap about css.

    Nadia

  14. #14
    SitePoint Addict sdamos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    275
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well, I can see both sides of the argument, but I tend to believe some of it is just "trend."

    Joe, thank you for the link, I did manage to find CSSCreator the other night, pretty cool site!

    This is my last night at work before I can begin work on the site again, I am up in the air as to which way to go. I just want it to look great and be viewable by all our visitors. I cannot have people unable to use my navigation or purchase items from our store. Those are two of the most important factors, lol.

    All other imput is welcome, thanks all.

  15. #15
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophybronze trophy Nadia P's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    NSW Australia
    Posts
    3,564
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well, I can see both sides of the argument, but I tend to believe some of it is just "trend."
    zealotry and following the crowd comes to mind also

    Nadia

  16. #16
    SitePoint Evangelist
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    581
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    sdamos: Glad you like the link. I haven't been there in a while (~1 year) and I need to start visiting again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia P
    We'll have to agree to disagree then
    Agreed. :handshake:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia P
    btw - I do design tableless so don't get me wrong. I have no problems in advocating css layouts at all. In some cases, it is best for a newbie to take it a step at a time, they can get quite overwhelmed being thrown into the deep end without knowing a scrap about css.
    Good. When I myself was just a newbie I learned to do tables. After a few years I got into CSS. I must say it was easier to learn CSS than tables. Tables, in the original specs, were meant for displaying tabular data - NOT laying out web sites. As a newbie, I would have rather learned to do things the right way first instead of the hard way. Just my opinion.

    Joe


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •