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  1. #51
    Deborah ccs111's Avatar
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    Hello tsion. Thanks for starting this thread it feels good to air things out even if nothing comes of it.
    Feedback always appreciated

  2. #52
    SitePoint Zealot tsion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccs111
    Hello tsion. Thanks for starting this thread it feels good to air things out even if nothing comes of it.
    My pleasure. Actually I think something will come of it. I know that Sarah is watching this thread. Maybe she could even pop in once in a while to let us know she's listening wink wink, nudge, nudge.
    Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
    -- Jimi Hendrix
    No I don't
    -- W. Wisdom

  3. #53
    SitePoint Zealot tsion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shyflower
    It seems that more and more people are finding Site Point and entering a design contest on their first or second post. I don't want to see the contest forum become elitist like that of some other sites, but I do think there needs to be some kind of change.

    Granted that, just because someone is a new member doesn't mean they are new to design.

    I don't think any of us are adverse to seeing good professional design from a new member. At least for me, to see better designs gives me incentive to try to make my designs better as well.

    I think that much of the problem with new members in the contest threads stems from the fact that a lot of them act like they are still in General Chat. What we really need is some way to ensure that all members, old and new, display professionalism if we want to draw the high end contests.

    At the other end though, it does chafe that after a contest has been open for a couple of weeks and designers have done several revisions, a newbie comes in with one design and sweeps it. I don't know though... maybe that's just part of competition?

    So what's the answer?
    I was wondering about something like this. Why is it that a contest holder has to have 25 posts, but a contestant does not? Seems to be backward to me. How many contests have not been posted here because someone was working on a deadline and didn't have time to put up 25 posts so they could run a contest?
    Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
    -- Jimi Hendrix
    No I don't
    -- W. Wisdom

  4. #54
    Word Painter silver trophy Shyflower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsion
    I was wondering about something like this. Why is it that a contest holder has to have 25 posts, but a contestant does not? Seems to be backward to me. How many contests have not been posted here because someone was working on a deadline and didn't have time to put up 25 posts so they could run a contest?
    My thoughts exactly. But I do think one of the reasons is to get away from bogus contests... those that get posted on the first post by someone that has no intention of completing the contest.

    As for your post #50, I'm glad you understand now. Thanks!

    I would like to add along that line, that if a contest holder doesn't pick a winner in that event they shouldn't be allowed to post any more contests here. I know Site Point can't make 'em put up, but they can make them shut up!
    Linda Jenkinson
    "Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean." ~Unknown

  5. #55
    Deborah ccs111's Avatar
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    Lately I have been checking to see if the contest holder has any dead contests before entering. If no one enters they will get the message.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shyflower
    I would like to add along that line, that if a contest holder doesn't pick a winner in that event they shouldn't be allowed to post any more contests here. I know Site Point can't make 'em put up, but they can make them shut up!
    Feedback always appreciated

  6. #56
    Word Painter silver trophy Shyflower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccs111
    Lately I have been checking to see if the contest holder has any dead contests before entering. If no one enters they will get the message.
    Yes, that is something we can all do... is check their prior contests. Unfortunately, though, many of us (especially new members) don't.

    Also, there are some who recently have run multiple contests here and then either abandoned them or picked winners and didn't pay. That's why I think there needs to be something in the guidelines to make these people think twice before they post a bogus contest.

    Of course, no rule is going to stop it entirely, but many of those who post contests also have other posts in the market place forums in trade your services, looking to hire, etc. If running a scam in the contest forum meant they would lose their membership here, I think it would decrease the number of contests that don't end up in a payoff.
    Linda Jenkinson
    "Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean." ~Unknown

  7. #57
    Non-Member phacker's Avatar
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    Newbies are so enthusiatic about finding SitePoint, that they dive in without a thought. I wish they'd look around a little and follow some of the contests first. But I guess I was that way in the beginning also.

  8. #58
    SitePoint Guru ckita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsion
    Hello to ckita, ccs111, and skyvee.

    Hello to you too!!

  9. #59
    blonde.... Sarah's Avatar
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    tsk tsk I am always here always reading - in fact I check this thread twice a day keeping me on my toes.

    ok 25 post limit on contest holders - thsi was something the guys asked for as it stopped people with no posts starting a contest as you didn't ahve anything to guage them by

    25 post removed on designers, we um and ahh on this one for ages but we lost a lot of potential new members by restricting that section of the forum, many people are put off by the size of this forum and if we say look what you cannot post in but you need 25 posts they spam the place like mad - cause me no end of trouble and then get banned, where as we have found letting them do what they wanted they cuase less hassle - believe it or not

    We do ban people for running bogus contest BUT its the definition of bogus that we have to define.

    Firstly SP can not guarantee your money - I can chase and chase and they usually pay up but we cannot do much more than that.

    what other definitions of a bad contest would you suggest - as I don't no winner selected is worthy of a bad contest

    The problem we also have is that no one likes to read the rules! amazing that at the end of the day I am trying not to restrict that section of the forum and to allow people to be themselves as I feel creating strict rules will limit the creativity, but that also means there are a few bad contests that crop up.

    What woudl be good is for you guys to jot down over the next week or so - or even past week or so - and count number of good contest vs bad - to see if we really have a major problem, or that most of you have been in the same bad ocntests and its sounding much worse than it is ?

    If you track your threads then it should be a simple task to do
    Regular user

  10. #60
    Non-Member phacker's Avatar
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    I think most of them showed up in this thread.

    http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show...=dead+contests

    Most of them took place or ended from December of last year until recently. Although I think this thread got at least three of the designers paid in the long run.

    It's been my experience there are always going to be a few that don't end well but lately it's become epidemic. Since I don't enter a lot of the template contests anymore I don't follow those.

    I am sure there are more successful contests, then ones that don't end well, or don't end at all. But lately it does seem like it's gotten bad.

  11. #61
    Non-Member phacker's Avatar
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    We can also add to these the MyElysia, Kadabra, and Pulp contests, until the winners have been paid.

  12. #62
    Non-Member phacker's Avatar
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    The efreehosting contest, he has explained, and it is his call to pick a winner or close the contest. I think he is honest and will pay up when he finds a design that meets his criteria.

    Rainbow Sunbeams and the KickRanch header ended eventually with the winner getting paid after at least a month of inactivity.

  13. #63
    Word Painter silver trophy Shyflower's Avatar
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    Sara: what other definitions of a bad contest would you suggest - as I don't no winner selected is worthy of a bad contest
    True not all contests that don't end in a winner are bad, but please read above. When someone can ask for revision after revision but can't choose a winner I think most of us agree "That" contest is a bad one and the contest holder is most probably fishing... either for ideas he/she can develop or even worse, to entirely rip someone else's design and sell it to his/her client as his/her own.

    Everybody deserves one chance, but as the saying goes "Fool me once, shame on you --- fool me twice, shame on me."
    Linda Jenkinson
    "Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean." ~Unknown

  14. #64
    SitePoint Member jshibbly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shyflower
    True not all contests that don't end in a winner are bad, but please read above. When someone can ask for revision after revision but can't choose a winner I think most of us agree "That" contest is a bad one and the contest holder is most probably fishing... either for ideas he/she can develop or even worse, to entirely rip someone else's design and sell it to his/her client as his/her own.

    Everybody deserves one chance, but as the saying goes "Fool me once, shame on you --- fool me twice, shame on me."
    I strongly agree with you on this one (btw thanks and sky too for the info). The way I see it is when a contest holder asked anyone of the participants to improve on their logo it binds him/her to select a winner. How does this process works outside of SP, isn't it the same way?

  15. #65
    Word Painter silver trophy Shyflower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jshibbly
    I strongly agree with you on this one (btw thanks and sky too for the info). The way I see it is when a contest holder asked anyone of the participants to improve on their logo it binds him/her to select a winner. How does this process works outside of SP, isn't it the same way?
    You're welcome... pass it on if you get the chance
    Linda Jenkinson
    "Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean." ~Unknown

  16. #66
    Non-Member phacker's Avatar
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    This guy definitely needs to be added to the black list.

    http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show...=1#post1810519

  17. #67
    SitePoint Zealot tsion's Avatar
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    I've got an idea everyone. If someone's got an idea for a rule or guideline, post it here with the title "NEW RULE", we can discuss it, and if we can come to an agreement on it, I'll post it in my opening post in this thread. That way we can kinda keep track of what we'd like to see changed.

    What do ya think?

    Tsion
    Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
    -- Jimi Hendrix
    No I don't
    -- W. Wisdom

  18. #68
    SitePoint Zealot tsion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phacker
    This guy definitely needs to be added to the black list.

    http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show...=1#post1810519
    I read through that thread, I'd have to agree with you there. I think he should be banned.

    *edit*

    *edit*
    Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
    -- Jimi Hendrix
    No I don't
    -- W. Wisdom

  19. #69
    blonde.... Sarah's Avatar
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    ok thanks for that link Pat - must of missed that one ok I will ponder on this one as we certainly need to do something but its a hard one on the how....
    Regular user

  20. #70
    Word Painter silver trophy Shyflower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah
    ok thanks for that link Pat - must of missed that one ok I will ponder on this one as we certainly need to do something but its a hard one on the how....
    Here's an idea. Why not post a sticky in the contest forum. Call it "The Graveyard". Anyone that abandons a contest gets his user name posted there by a mod or admin. If they want their name removed, they need to pm the mod or admin and explain why their previous contest was abandoned. If they picked a design and didn't pay up, they need to provide proof of purchase to have their name removed.

    This idea is the same type of thing many merchants in innerspace do when they get a bad check. They put it on the counter under plate glass for the world to see.

    Designers could check this sticky to see if the user's name was posted and then decide if they wanted to enter another contest from these members.
    Linda Jenkinson
    "Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean." ~Unknown

  21. #71
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    Hey,

    Just thought I would give my opinion as I am what would be classed as a newbie. Generally, I think newbies should be welcomed with open arms. I don't recall me posting anything off-topic or incorrect, but being a newbie we may do something that we aren't aware of. I know it may sound an excuse, but I think that recently, more newbies are posting unrelated and unprofessional replies in contest threads.

    For myself, I keep my replies short and simple. However, I just noticed this thread http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show...=251041&page=2 which has several participants really talking off-topic and making the contest feel very unprofessional. What is the correct method of bringing this to their attention, as some are obviously less of a newbie than me. Should the post be reported, should they be PM'ed, etc...?

    I have only been here a couple of months, but I have enjoyed entering contests greatly.

    Thanks
    J

  22. #72
    SitePoint Zealot tsion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyline94.2
    Hey,

    Just thought I would give my opinion as I am what would be classed as a newbie. Generally, I think newbies should be welcomed with open arms. I don't recall me posting anything off-topic or incorrect, but being a newbie we may do something that we aren't aware of. I know it may sound an excuse, but I think that recently, more newbies are posting unrelated and unprofessional replies in contest threads.

    For myself, I keep my replies short and simple. However, I just noticed this thread http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show...=251041&page=2 which has several participants really talking off-topic and making the contest feel very unprofessional. What is the correct method of bringing this to their attention, as some are obviously less of a newbie than me. Should the post be reported, should they be PM'ed, etc...?

    I have only been here a couple of months, but I have enjoyed entering contests greatly.

    Thanks
    J
    Skyline, thanks for joining in.

    Here's my input on this.

    There's always gonna be a little off topic discussion in the contest threads, I don't see this one as a big deal (my opinion). Trying to track every off-topic comment would be nearly impossible.

    Tsion
    Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
    -- Jimi Hendrix
    No I don't
    -- W. Wisdom

  23. #73
    SitePoint Member jshibbly's Avatar
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    Skyline: I think one way to do it is to PM them and tell them that such remarks, comments etc, should be PM to the artist of concern. In addition, to ask if they could be kind enough to remove them from the post. In this way, they are corrected in private thereby eliminating the possibility of clogging the thread with unending rebuttal.

    Off topic---
    I noticed that each thread has a rating. Maybe we should use this. Perhaps if it is possible have a way to gather comments about the thread to explain why it got high or low ratings. Just my two cents

  24. #74
    SitePoint Zealot tsion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shyflower
    Here's an idea. Why not post a sticky in the contest forum. Call it "The Graveyard". Anyone that abandons a contest gets his user name posted there by a mod or admin. If they want their name removed, they need to pm the mod or admin and explain why their previous contest was abandoned. If they picked a design and didn't pay up, they need to provide proof of purchase to have their name removed.

    This idea is the same type of thing many merchants in innerspace do when they get a bad check. They put it on the counter under plate glass for the world to see.

    Designers could check this sticky to see if the user's name was posted and then decide if they wanted to enter another contest from these members.
    Anyone got some feedback about my other post (#67)? I think this one should be added to the list.
    Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
    -- Jimi Hendrix
    No I don't
    -- W. Wisdom

  25. #75
    SitePoint Zealot tsion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jshibbly
    Skyline: I think one way to do it is to PM them and tell them that such remarks, comments etc, should be PM to the artist of concern. In addition, to ask if they could be kind enough to remove them from the post. In this way, they are corrected in private thereby eliminating the possibility of clogging the thread with unending rebuttal.

    Off topic---
    I noticed that each thread has a rating. Maybe we should use this. Perhaps if it is possible have a way to gather comments about the thread to explain why it got high or low ratings. Just my two cents
    jshibbly, thanks for taking that a bit further than I did, I need to learn to read better. Your right, I've seen one comment turn things into almost a full blow argument.

    It does seem like the rating system is a bit underused. I know I've used it on a couple of occasions.
    Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
    -- Jimi Hendrix
    No I don't
    -- W. Wisdom


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