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  1. #1
    SitePoint Zealot tsion's Avatar
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    Contest Guideline amendments

    I started this in another thread, but thought it should have one of it's own.
    I've also added a couple of things, I think should be addressed also.

    I'm new around here, so if I'm out of line, please let me know.

    Here are a few suggestions I have.


    1. All Contest entries should be posted in the contest thread. No entries should be PM'd or emailed to the contest holder. The first rule is a little vague in this respect.

    2. SP members should not be allowed to offer thier services to contest holder for less than the value of the contest. This should include via PM, Email, etc. I have seen this on several occasions. This kinda defeats the purpose of the contests. Again, the 3rd rule is a little vague.

    3. A note in the contest guidelines. Something to the fact that all work performed in the contests is subject to copyright by the respective artist.
    I have gone over copyright laws a little with my attorney, and have some understanding on how it works in the US, but as Shyflower pointed out, Copyright should be fairly universal worldwide. Maybe a small copyright disclaimer would add a little comfort to the designers.

    #4 removed

    Tsion
    Last edited by tsion; Apr 7, 2005 at 19:56.
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  2. #2
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy someonewhois's Avatar
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    You can't stop people from e-mailing or privately contacting the contest holder and offering "I'll do it for 75% of what you want to pay, if you gaurantee that you chose me." sort of thing.

  3. #3
    SitePoint Zealot tsion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by someonewhois
    You can't stop people from e-mailing or privately contacting the contest holder and offering "I'll do it for 75% of what you want to pay, if you gaurantee that you chose me." sort of thing.
    I know you can't stop it, but maybe a rule would help reduce the number of people doing it.
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    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy someonewhois's Avatar
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    I doubt it, but I guess it can't hurt.

  5. #5
    SitePoint Zealot tsion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by someonewhois
    I doubt it, but I guess it can't hurt.
    While your here, any comment on my other suggestions?
    Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
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    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy someonewhois's Avatar
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    Sounds good. The fonts issue is a bit of a pickle though. Personally if I held a contest, I'd definately want the font. Usually it's more than just the title that uses that font, or there's a slight variation of the logo that needs to be done and the font needs to be resized/changed/etc.. I think fonts should be included, though if they're paid you should just refer them to where you bought it from -- and let them work out how they want to get it.

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    Non-Member phacker's Avatar
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    I think these changes should be put into effect. The first one used to be part of the guidelines, I am not sure when it was removed.

    Pat

  8. #8
    SitePoint Zealot tsion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by someonewhois
    Sounds good. The fonts issue is a bit of a pickle though. Personally if I held a contest, I'd definately want the font. Usually it's more than just the title that uses that font, or there's a slight variation of the logo that needs to be done and the font needs to be resized/changed/etc.. I think fonts should be included, though if they're paid you should just refer them to where you bought it from -- and let them work out how they want to get it.
    Well, now that I think about it, I guess it's not too much different than attatching a font when sending a job out to be printed. But I still think there's an issue there.
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  9. #9
    SitePoint Zealot tsion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phacker
    I think these changes should be put into effect. The first one used to be part of the guidelines, I am not sure when it was removed.

    Pat
    Pat,

    Thanks for the support. We need to get everyone involved. I don't think these are unreasonable requests. The current guidelines are good, I just think they need to be a little clearer on certain points.

    Tsion
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  10. #10
    Non-Member phacker's Avatar
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    I send fonts when requested, and like what you said about preprinting, that's how I always thought of it. If they are using the fonts for other than the logo or design work that we have submitted, I would imagine that's their problem.

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    Non-Member phacker's Avatar
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    I am not a template designer, but I've been following this thread, and this is just wrong.

    http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show...8&postcount=64

    He starts a contest, but he's also asking friends and relatives to compete without the designers here being able to see what they are competing with, plus accept designs through pm.

  12. #12
    SitePoint Zealot tsion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phacker
    I send fonts when requested, and like what you said about preprinting, that's how I always thought of it. If they are using the fonts for other than the logo or design work that we have submitted, I would imagine that's their problem.
    Maybe we should forget the font thing.
    I personally do not distribute font's to my customers directly. Actually I never really had a request to do so. However, if the situation were to arise...
    I would take someonewhois's advice and direct them to where I purchased the font.
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  13. #13
    SitePoint Zealot tsion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phacker
    I am not a template designer, but I've been following this thread, and this is just wrong.

    http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show...8&postcount=64

    He starts a contest, but he's also asking friends and relatives to compete without the designers here being able to see what they are competing with, plus accept designs through pm.
    I know what you mean, I acutally had an entry in this one, but when I found this out, I pulled everything. I don't think i was rude about it, but I did express my displeasure at the situation.
    Me and the other designers had alot of time into this contest. Though they may have not been the type of design he was looking for, he could have given us a little more direction rather than saying.. Oh btw, I got a design somewhere else that I'm 99% sure I'm going to use, but you can still keep working on it if you want.
    I've seen this same sort of thing in other threads that I haven't been in, just was following. This is one of the reasons I started this thread.

    Your right, it was just wrong.
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  14. #14
    Word Painter silver trophy Shyflower's Avatar
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    I think this is an excellent thread and support most of the ideas here. However, in reference to fonts. First of all, a lot of fonts are widely used and it wouldn't hurt to just let the contest holder know the name of the font used so they can easily make adjustments if needed.

    On the flip side, more and more people seem to want hand-drawn or specially created fonts for their logos and other graphics-with-text work. If I "draw" a font for something, I am certainly not going to do the whole alphabet, just what's needed for the design. So it follows that the person paying for a design with a standard font really has no more right to the whole alphabet of that font than one requesting a drawn font, to my way of thinking.
    Linda Jenkinson
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    Non-Member phacker's Avatar
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    I'd like to add a number 5. to the list. For the Designers, not the Contest Holders.

    5. Please, limit your comments on other designers work to congratulations at the end of the contest.

  16. #16
    SitePoint Zealot tsion's Avatar
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    I would have no problem telling a customer what font I used. My point is that fonts that are purchased through sources like linotype.com or fonts.com are subject to a user agreement. In both of these cases, the user agreements state that the fonts cannot be distributed to a 3rd party in any other manner than a static form (ie) they cannot be editable. I also reread one of my agreements and it states that I cannot even distribute to a print service, except in static form, unless that print service has a license to use the font.

    In the end, I guess it's up to the designer to decide to distribute the fonts or not. I still will not personally distribute fonts. Like someonewhois said, I'll just point them to where they can purchase them, if it's absolutely necessary that the customer have them.
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  17. #17
    Non-Member phacker's Avatar
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    I wasn't aware of anything like that with the fonts I have, but then they came with my software: Corel which preps the files for the printer by gathering the necessary files such as fonts together. So I just figured it was alright to do. Of course the printer is just going to print what you send them, not totally rework a design.

    That should be a concern then.

  18. #18
    SitePoint Zealot tsion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phacker
    I'd like to add a number 5. to the list. For the Designers, not the Contest Holders.

    5. Please, limit your comments on other designers work to congratulations at the end of the contest.
    I know i've probably done it once or twice however, your right. I do see alot of extra comments in the threads, which don't pertian specifically to the contest, and sometimes makes it difficult to find feedback from the contest holder.
    Last edited by tsion; Apr 3, 2005 at 17:51.
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  19. #19
    SitePoint Zealot tsion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phacker
    I wasn't aware of anything like that with the fonts I have, but then they came with my software: Corel which preps the files for the printer by gathering the necessary files such as fonts together. So I just figured it was alright to do. Of course the printer is just going to print what you send them, not totally rework a design.

    That should be a concern then.
    Yes, even fonts mass distributed from Corel (I have a few) and others have some kind of user agreement, but they're usually on very small print on a tiny slip of paper somewhere. If you open a font with windows, most fonts will tell you who holds the copyright to that particular font.
    Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
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  20. #20
    blonde.... Sarah's Avatar
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    hi guys am reading this and yes they sound good - the font thing I feel is up to you, the rest no problem
    Regular user

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    Non-Member phacker's Avatar
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    I see this thread didn't end well:

    http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show...=248223&page=5

    Too bad the designers were out their time. And this guy can still post other contests.

  22. #22
    Word Painter silver trophy Shyflower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phacker
    I see this thread didn't end well:

    http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show...=248223&page=5

    Too bad the designers were out their time. And this guy can still post other contests.
    Appears to be another contest that the guy held in the contest forum and elsewhere even if it was just by some sort of messenger or email. At any rate, doesn't seem quite fair to those who did enter in this forum. I guess we'll all just have to watch close from now on to see that each contest is on the up and up and treats everyone fairly before putting any effort into our entries.
    Linda Jenkinson
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  23. #23
    blonde.... Sarah's Avatar
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    actually that contest wasn't as bad as you think - its as a designer not of this board that saw the contest and offered the designs via another way therefore not the contest holders fault
    Regular user

  24. #24
    SitePoint Zealot tsion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phacker
    I see this thread didn't end well:

    http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show...=248223&page=5

    Too bad the designers were out their time. And this guy can still post other contests.
    Ya, this one turned out real bad. I know I spent alot of time on my design for it. But, this thread got out of control. Most of the people posting comments there didn't even have an entry in the contest. A few of us who did, basically backed out. I made a few comments and asked a couple of questions, but left it at that. However, others just started flamin' this guy. I think it was totally uncalled for. Like I posted at the end of the contest, this type of treatment toward a contest holder should not be allowed. It does nothing to help the forums. In my opinion it hurts them more than it helps them. To me, all it shows the contest holders is that if they make a mistake, they'll get treated poorly. I agree that there should be some type of repercussion for running a contest this way, but it should be handled by the admin, not the contestants.

    Tsion
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  25. #25
    SitePoint Zealot tsion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarah
    actually that contest wasn't as bad as you think - its as a designer not of this board that saw the contest and offered the designs via another way therefore not the contest holders fault
    Your right Sarah, the contest it's self was not that bad. Though the guy may not have conducted it properly, he still had the right not to choose a design. I think it was the large prize amount that got everyone excited about this one. I know I was there for a while.

    Tsion
    Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens.
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    No I don't
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