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  1. #1
    SitePoint Enthusiast Forsteen's Avatar
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    Problems with Frames

    I am still working on a site in dreamweaver and I am using a lot of frames because I don't want the content to change when someone clicks on a link, but I want to get away from frames due to the fact that it would run into a lot of problems with different monitor sizes.

    I also don't want someone to click on a link and then have to wait for everything to load up again.

    Is there faster and simplier way of handling this?
    Forsteen
    Law of Probable Dispersal
    Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed.

  2. #2
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    As far as I'm aware, Forsteen, if you want to keep your navigation bar permanently on view, you have no alternative but to use frames.

    Why will you run into problems with different monitor sizes if you continue with your frames site?
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
    No longer Editor of the Community Crier.

    Don't mind me, I'm having a BLONDE moment!

  3. #3
    SitePoint Enthusiast Forsteen's Avatar
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    I have about five different framesets. A top banner one going across the horizontally, a left and right one going vertically, one below the top banner one going horizontally that is also between the left and right, and the main section in the middle. I think I overdid it though.

    Does too many framesets mess up with the information in them? Like a banner in a horizontal frameset; i.e. if a user uses a smaller resolution size the banner will get cut off.

    I'm doing some experiementing. So this is a test run. I like to keep things simple, but with this one I like to make it more interesting. I've been to too many boring sites.

    I tried to upload it to the geocities server, but is larger than 15 megs. Gotta find a good server and haven't found one with the space.

    I wish I had it uploaded to show you.
    Forsteen
    Law of Probable Dispersal
    Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed.

  4. #4
    Don't get too close, I bite! Nicky's Avatar
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    In my opinion the main problem with frames is their inaccessibility! Run your site through Bobby to get an idea of what I mean!

  5. #5
    SitePoint Enthusiast Forsteen's Avatar
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    I have about five different framesets. A top banner one going across the horizontally, a left and right one going vertically, one below the top banner one going horizontally that is also between the left and right, and the main section in the middle. I think I overdid it though.

    Does too many framesets mess up with the information in them? Like a banner in a horizontal frameset; i.e. if a user uses a smaller resolution size the banner will get cut off.

    I'm doing some experiementing. So this is a test run. I like to keep things simple, but with this one I like to make it more interesting. I've been to too many boring sites.

    I tried to upload it to the geocities server, but is larger than 15 megs. Gotta find a good server and haven't found one with the space.

    I wish I had it uploaded to show you.
    Forsteen
    Law of Probable Dispersal
    Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed.

  6. #6
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    Got to admit, it would help if we could see it!
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
    No longer Editor of the Community Crier.

    Don't mind me, I'm having a BLONDE moment!

  7. #7
    The Hiding One lynlimz's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Just placing the content you don't want reloaded always in a javascript file. using document.write to print out the code.

    From what I have encountered, javascript files tend to be re-used. This is experienced in IE, NS and Opera Browsers.

    Not fully tested, but worth a try.
    The ultimate solution is unfortunately, reduce the total file size of each page load.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
    -- Albert Einstein

  8. #8
    You talkin to me? Anarchos's Avatar
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    I think it's rare when a site that uses frames needs more than 2 frames.

  9. #9
    SitePoint Enthusiast Forsteen's Avatar
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    I will reduce it down to two and see what happens. Then I will upload it. Any more tips is appreciated.
    Forsteen
    Law of Probable Dispersal
    Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed.

  10. #10
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    lyn: No, the JS file is called individually (not server cached as you seem to be suggesting), but it then must be processed. Thus, it's slower than actual HTML.

    Forsteen: Well, my site uses 4 frames. If you set the actual height/width permanently your graphix won't be cutuff but then users on smaller monitors will have tiny viewing areas. In this case it depends how many of your users really use smaller monitors.

    In terms of the Bobby analysis that's a crock of crap. Embedding css media attributes and detect pointers means that disabled folks can still access your site. Then there's the issue if disabled folks would even want to view your site. For instance a graphic and design community site would not be a top-hitter among the disabled community.

    Anyways, essentially, if you want the menu to always be there, but don't want it to reload frames are your real only options though a central SSI file will allow you to change your nav quickly were you to go to a tabled layout completely.
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  11. #11
    The Hiding One lynlimz's Avatar
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    Originally posted by studiococo
    lyn: No, the JS file is called individually (not server cached as you seem to be suggesting), but it then must be processed. Thus, it's slower than actual HTML.
    i'm not talking about server cached. the browser loading the js file from the user system's cache.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
    -- Albert Einstein

  12. #12
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Do I NEED To lay it out for you?

    The browser makes a request to the server for a certain file, the server sends initial packet info. If the info matches info in the current system (which the browser is accessing while waiting for the server to respond) the old file is loaded.

    HOWEVER, the JS must STILL be interpreted just as HTML would, and THEN the HTML must be laid out and processed.

    If that doesn't make sense here's the process.

    With central JS to write to the document:
    1. Open cached file
    2. Interpret JS
    3. Grab appropriate graphix from server (or cached if available)
    4. Build/finish page

    With HTML files:
    1. Open cached files
    2. Grab appropriate graphix from server (or cached if available)
    3. Build/finish page

    So, where's the problem? Same amount of files being called (an html file is just as easily cached as a js file so I'm not sure where your logic comes from), the JS is actually a larger file, etc. Sure, the js could push images into the user's cache, but you could just as easily have js on the page doing that if that was really an issue (it's not really).
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  13. #13
    The Hiding One lynlimz's Avatar
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    hey studiococo, take your attitude down a level.

    i'm talking about an external js file. even if you make modifications to the js file, browsers are tend to load the js file from cache. hence, changes to your js file might not be reflected.

    based on this experience, i was just offering an option.
    do you NOW get what I mean?

    and no. i understand the process of which data is sent to and fro.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
    -- Albert Einstein

  14. #14
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Hey, lyn, the attitude was due to you offering a solution which didn't work and was misguided.

    "Just placing the content you don't want reloaded always in a javascript file. using document.write to print out the code.

    From what I have encountered, javascript files tend to be re-used. This is experienced in IE, NS and Opera Browsers."

    Was your exact solution. Since:

    1. Javascript files are not reused any more than any other files
    2. You didn't offer process or code
    3. an html can just as easily be external (central) as a js file

    I just said "you're wrong, let's move on". You had a problem with this. If you still have a problem, move it to another thread and we'll discuss it there.

    I'm not saying you're stupid or that you weren't trying to be helpful, just that on this small point, you're wrong. No biggie, aight?
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  15. #15
    SitePoint Enthusiast Forsteen's Avatar
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    I don't like to get involved, but I think this should be discussed between you two not battled over.

    Have at some mutual respect ok.

    Thanks.
    Forsteen
    Law of Probable Dispersal
    Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed.

  16. #16
    The Hiding One lynlimz's Avatar
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    hey

    i said it through experience. 'Not fully tested, but worth a try. '

    Doens't it answer your query?
    anyway, glad this argument resulted from your kind nature of helping the user.

    i made my reply not in the hope of misguiding the user. if that has somewhat resulte din this argument, just accept my apologies.

    Originally posted by Forsteen
    I don't like to get involved, but I think this should be discussed between you two not battled over.

    Have at some mutual respect ok.

    Thanks.
    hey hey. we're not getting heated up at all. lol!
    Last edited by lynlimz; Jun 6, 2001 at 06:48.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
    -- Albert Einstein

  17. #17
    SitePoint Enthusiast Forsteen's Avatar
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    I'm basically starting off in doing websites with other elements so I don't know alot to know about javascript and other applications. I need to read up and study it.

    I appreciate the help.
    Forsteen
    Law of Probable Dispersal
    Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed.


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