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  1. #1
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    Best database to use for intensive email collection

    Hi,

    I'm building a site for a potentially high-profile organisation which will require log-in before people can access the site.

    We are expecting up to 50,000 registered users within the first three weeks.

    The server has capabilities for all common database technologies (Access, SQL-server, MySQL etc) but my skills lie in ASP and Access.

    I'm concerned that building the site in ASP will cause it to run way too slowly because of ASP's poor capacity to handle simultaneous connections - particularly with Access databases.

    Would it be feesible for me to do this in ASP and SQL-Server - bearing in mind the deadline is 1 week from today and I have never used SQL-server before, or would it be more feesible to do it in PHP/MySQL. Could PHP/MySQL handle the data?

    Any advice would be really helpful, thanks...

  2. #2
    SitePoint Guru puco's Avatar
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    50,000 / 3 weeks that is less then 5 registrations a minute. I guess Access could do that easily, but I would suggest you use the MS SQL Server if it's available.

    The difference between Access and SQL Server isn't so big IMO that you couldn't manage.

  3. #3
    Snowboarders die even younger igor.kudela's Avatar
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    if no money and need power get PostgreSQL http://www.postgresql.org/

    if loooots a money and love BILL get MS SQL http://www.microsoft.com/sql/default.mspx

    if looots a money a u be veeery good coder get ORACLE http://www.oracle.com/database/index.html

    if no money no need power no good coder get MySQL http://www.mysql.com/

    hope this helps
    Igor Kudela
    NetPublisher - FREE Customizable .NET CMS

  4. #4
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    Thanks, that helps distiguish!

    Forgive my ignorance, but how do I set up a SQL server database? Do I need to buy the software? I guess being called 'SQL Server' it will only run on a server, therefore, do I need to look out for some sort of admin interface on the hosting package? With Access you obviously have a tangible file with which to work with, but SQL-server is an unknown quantity as far as I'm concerned.

    Will MySQL not be able to handle this? Assuming that registration isn't evenly spread. I know ASP/Access will cope with five calls per minute, but what if the load is uneven, so it gets 200 in the first minute? This is my problem really.

  5. #5
    Snowboarders die even younger igor.kudela's Avatar
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    ms sql and oracle u need to buy , postgresql and mysql are free
    u do need to install them on a server



    btw your mysql will be able to hand the load just fine its just i really dont like the hype that mysql is the best fee db server mainly becouse postgresql is

    and dont use access u might get into troubles with it when the peak times come
    Igor Kudela
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  6. #6
    SitePoint Guru asterix's Avatar
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    There is a lot of useless information in this thread.

    If you have no experience with SQL Server, then using even the free version (MSDE) is going to be painful for you. In this case, you can also forget using Oracle and most likely also forget PostGres, these three databases provide more features than you will ever need.

    MySQL is a good bet, but you will need to install some management software unless you like the CLI. Something like PHPMyAdmin. But then again, why would anyone install PHP on IIS when the rest of the environment is purely Microsoft? You create security problems big enough to drive a crack bus through.

    50.000 registrations in three weeks is, erm, small fry.
    Access can handle this no problems.

    Your statement about ASP is totally wrong. ASP can handle hundreds of simultaneous connections. The MDAC driver for Access, however, can't. If you choose to use access stay away from ADO features such as recordset.edit and recordset.update, they kill performance faster than a Google deepscan. Just stick to plain old SQL with update, insert and delete statements.

    if you do this and index your DB properly you will have no problems with performance.

  7. #7
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    Thanks Asterix,

    In your estimation then, you'd be confident in presenting a simple form with SQL 'INSERT' statement to input data to an Access database, to potentially 200 users within a minute?

    I appreciate the advice, since I'm used to working on extremely-miniscule-small-fry applications, though I have heard that Access doesn't scale too well for something like this, and the last thing I want is the site grinding to a halt.

  8. #8
    Snowboarders die even younger igor.kudela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asterix
    There is a lot of useless information in this thread.

    If you have no experience with SQL Server, then using even the free version (MSDE) is going to be painful for you. In this case, you can also forget using Oracle and most likely also forget PostGres, these three databases provide more features than you will ever need.

    MySQL is a good bet, but you will need to install some management software unless you like the CLI. Something like PHPMyAdmin. But then again, why would anyone install PHP on IIS when the rest of the environment is purely Microsoft? You create security problems big enough to drive a crack bus through.

    50.000 registrations in three weeks is, erm, small fry.
    Access can handle this no problems.

    Your statement about ASP is totally wrong. ASP can handle hundreds of simultaneous connections. The MDAC driver for Access, however, can't. If you choose to use access stay away from ADO features such as recordset.edit and recordset.update, they kill performance faster than a Google deepscan. Just stick to plain old SQL with update, insert and delete statements.

    if you do this and index your DB properly you will have no problems with performance.
    where is the useless info ??
    all you did is pretty much summed up what has been said and added a few point about access and asp so i would pretty much say that 80 % of your post is useless
    Igor Kudela
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  9. #9
    Snowboarders die even younger igor.kudela's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danwednesday
    Thanks Asterix,

    In your estimation then, you'd be confident in presenting a simple form with SQL 'INSERT' statement to input data to an Access database, to potentially 200 users within a minute?

    I appreciate the advice, since I'm used to working on extremely-miniscule-small-fry applications, though I have heard that Access doesn't scale too well for something like this, and the last thing I want is the site grinding to a halt.
    i would really advise you to use a stronger DB backend maybe its time to learn something new , web is full of tutorials and with a few sleep less nights you will become a much more powerfull coder that just sticking with what you know

    and one more thing i would not worry about access being the bottle neck if u code your app right it will be only a little bit of work to switch to a completly different data store with the code you already have
    Igor Kudela
    NetPublisher - FREE Customizable .NET CMS

  10. #10
    Afrika
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    The server has capabilities for all common database technologies (Access, SQL-server, MySQL etc) but my skills lie in ASP and Access.
    if no money and need power get PostgreSQL http://www.postgresql.org/

    if loooots a money and love BILL get MS SQL http://www.microsoft.com/sql/default.mspx

    if looots a money a u be veeery good coder get ORACLE http://www.oracle.com/database/index.html

    if no money no need power no good coder get MySQL http://www.mysql.com/

    hope this helps
    If hosting with a webserver on the internet, the difference between hosting an MS SQL db and a MySQL db isnt that much, if not the same.

    Unless you are going for a dedicated server and going into purchasing a licence for your db.

    Afrika

  11. #11
    SitePoint Guru asterix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danwednesday
    Thanks Asterix,

    In your estimation then, you'd be confident in presenting a simple form with SQL 'INSERT' statement to input data to an Access database, to potentially 200 users within a minute?

    I appreciate the advice, since I'm used to working on extremely-miniscule-small-fry applications, though I have heard that Access doesn't scale too well for something like this, and the last thing I want is the site grinding to a halt.
    200 Users? Concurrently? Is the entire site being run off the database, or do you only need the database to store email addresses?

    in the former scenario Access is a poor choice, in the latter scenario Access is fine.

  12. #12
    SitePoint Guru asterix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by igor.kudela
    where is the useless info ??
    I quote:

    if no money and need power get PostgreSQL http://www.postgresql.org/

    if loooots a money and love BILL get MS SQL http://www.microsoft.com/sql/default.mspx

    if looots a money a u be veeery good coder get ORACLE http://www.oracle.com/database/index.html

    if no money no need power no good coder get MySQL http://www.mysql.com/
    Your information is incorrect:

    There are at least two versions of MS SQL Server which are free.
    Coding skill has nothing to do with what database you choose, since coding is done in an application language.
    There is at least one version of MySQL which must be paid for.


    You attempt to list the pros and cons of some choices, but you never say on what basis you chose to list those 4 products:

    You never even mention Access, the OPs current choice. You leave out DB2 (you mentioned Oracle), SAPDB/MaxDB (you mentioned PostGres), mSQL (you mentioned MySQL) or even SyBASE (you mentioned MSSQL). There are more, for example Interbase.

  13. #13
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    the part that everyone here seems to have overlooked in the original question is this --
    bearing in mind the deadline is 1 week from today
    the more you guys argue about which database system danwednesday should be using, the less time he has to actually get going on the access solution, which is the only one he should be attempting right now
    rudy.ca | @rudydotca
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  14. #14
    Afrika
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    personally, i think 1week is IMPOSSIBLE.

    Owing, to good design, implementation and testing issues

  15. #15
    Snowboarders die even younger igor.kudela's Avatar
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    oh yeah i missed that , one week is almost impossible i would start up coding right away in what u know best (access ? ) get it running and resolve the issues as they come , not the best approach but the best option right now
    Igor Kudela
    NetPublisher - FREE Customizable .NET CMS


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