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  1. #1
    SitePoint Enthusiast nzgfxguru's Avatar
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    DMOZ or the ODP, is being human edited a good thing?

    DMOZ or the ODP, is being human edited a good thing?

    I have been trying to get listed in the ODP for 6 weeks now, and after several e-mails and messages in the DMOZ forums nothing is happening.

    I have even applied to be an editor to speed up the process but was turned down due to too many editors for my category. I have a lot of free time I am willing to put back into the industry, but obviously my help is not needed.

    If there are too many editors for my category then I wonder why my site is not being listed?

    Does being human edited, open up the ODP to malicious and selfish editing/editors? I have browsed several of the sites in the same category and my site is very competitive compared to others. Maybe designing a good looking fast site lessens my chances of being listed?

    Has anyone else had problems getting an ODp listing?
    Julian Jackson
    Circle Design - Think outside the square.
    Knitnak, for fabulous handmade knitwear.

  2. #2
    SitePoint Enthusiast Ampalian's Avatar
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    At 6 weeks I'm afraid you're a new boy. If you ask "where's my listing?" on the DMOZ forum you'll be told to go away and play and not to dare ask again for at least 6 months.

    I don't care if DMOZ is human edited but the way it is is edited should not be given so much credence by the major SE's. It is part of a major flaw in Google results. DMOZ is no better a directory than any of the thousands of others and shouldn't be treated any better.

    I'm sure there are some excellent editors. I'm equally sure there are corrupt, incompetent, lazy and arrogant ones too. On top of that there are many categories that don't have an editor at all and the establishment doesn't appear to want any.

    Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

  3. #3
    SitePoint Wizard gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy dc dalton's Avatar
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    YUP 6 weeks is NOTHING to dmoz ..... my main design site took 2 years to finally get listed with them! As was said, they are the boss, they make the rules .... sorry but youre just gonna have to sit back and "twiddle your thumbs" like the rest of us did!

  4. #4
    SitePoint Wizard realestate's Avatar
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    An average site in dmoz is not good at all. It is like a random sample of internet. Many very old articles have dmoz listings. If you have a good site, you need luck. If you have insider connection, you need an average site.

  5. #5
    SitePoint Enthusiast nzgfxguru's Avatar
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    lol realestate, amusing reply

    Wow Ampalian, 6 months to get listed!, and dc dalton...2 years !!!! that's crazy!!!

    My NZ Graphic Design site took around 3 weeks to get listed. It was a mediocre site and entered into a large section with several hundred listings.

    My new site is very different and possibly a threat to some of the editors own sites.
    Julian Jackson
    Circle Design - Think outside the square.
    Knitnak, for fabulous handmade knitwear.

  6. #6
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    DMOZ are a bunch of asses submit once then just walk away. If you get it great if not dont worry about it. I find it hard to believe that they have over 10k editors though, considering how picky they are about accepting people.

  7. #7
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy someonewhois's Avatar
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    It all depends on the category. Some categories you'll get in quick, others you won't. If it's a semi-dead category, BUT has an editor, you're in a great position. A really popular category, even with an editor, will take a while. Obviously a category with no editor, you're out of luck.

    I think there's too many old pages in dmoz, and too many self-centered editors. Other than that, the idea is good.

  8. #8
    SitePoint Enthusiast nzgfxguru's Avatar
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    This is crazy, I don't understand why I am getting so many conflicting answers and experiences.
    Julian Jackson
    Circle Design - Think outside the square.
    Knitnak, for fabulous handmade knitwear.

  9. #9
    SitePoint Enthusiast Ampalian's Avatar
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    Wow Ampalian, 6 months to get listed!
    No, still NOT listed!

    http://resource-zone.com/forum/showt...light=ampalian

    I submitted earlier as well. TIP: Once you've submitted don't bother submitting again. You are now in the hands of the demi gods assuming your category has one that is.

    Why the heck Google and other SE's take any notice of DMOZ is totally beyond me. Human edited with all of the human flaws.

  10. #10
    Internet Toughguy Kevin Boss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nzgfxguru
    This is crazy, I don't understand why I am getting so many conflicting answers and experiences.
    Because each category is handled by different editors. Some of them have the time to review your site in 3 weeks, some don't do it at all. Read their forums if you want clarification.

  11. #11
    SitePoint Enthusiast nzgfxguru's Avatar
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    OK, if some don't do it at all then why not let editors that WILL do it into the team?
    Julian Jackson
    Circle Design - Think outside the square.
    Knitnak, for fabulous handmade knitwear.

  12. #12
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    >then why not let editors that WILL do it into the team?

    Over 300 new editors added this month

  13. #13
    SitePoint Zealot Thermit's Avatar
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    If you understand the volume of sites that are submitted by all the webmasters out there, and the relatively small number of editors, you'll understand why it can take months or years.

    I used to worry about it, and still would like to get my sites listed because of the Google bump, but you just have to submit and forget like is often heared.

  14. #14
    SitePoint Zealot SiteTutorcom's Avatar
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    It's true, you need to have connections to get anywhere and then you will be in right away. Noone takes DMOZ serious except to the fact that they increase the SERPs and give an unfair advantage to many for all the wrong reasons.
    Try searching them as a directory for any term and you will find rediculous results.
    I don't see that directory make it for another year or 2 because Google is trying to improve their web search results and not support a bunch of kids who are playing around.

    The old days are gone and the inernet is more and more becoming a serious business.

  15. #15
    SitePoint Enthusiast Ampalian's Avatar
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    I do so hope that you're right. It seems crazy that a company like Google should give some much credence to a human edited volunteer directory.

  16. #16
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    Just checking but what do you guys mean by Human Editing?? You mean people rather than Bots review sites before listing??

    If so I guess they're checking to see if it meets their regs.... *just thinking aloud*

  17. #17
    SitePoint Enthusiast Ampalian's Avatar
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    Humans, with all of the human flaws, yes.

    Meeting regs isn't the issue. It's the time it takes and the attitude that one is met with by DMOZ that is the issue.

  18. #18
    SitePoint Zealot SiteTutorcom's Avatar
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    Agreed. Assuming it was a real directory, go ahead and search dmoz for a term like "music" and look at the results. They are way out there. No real directory or search engine would be in business like that. Also the time factor is a major issue like you said. A large percentage of listings have no longer the content they did when they were accepted in for many reasons (people took off original content and replaced it with spam, webmasters dropped the domain and countless pages such as from cnn have moved their content to a different url).

    The problem is that noone ever looks at this since noone ever cares or takes dmoz serious. But since the impact of dmoz listings is so high on search engine results, we bother to do so. The advice given above is right, submit your site and forget dmoz exists.

  19. #19
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    1. DMOZ is not a search engine, so why search at it? You search for sites at search engines. Directories are for browsing.

    2. Google have just increased the use of DMOZ, by using DMOZ description in SERPS in some situations, so there is no sign they are going to drop DMOZ.

    Despite its flaws, DMOZ is the largest Directory (>4.5 million sites) - no other directory come remotely close to that. DMOZ adds up to 1000-2000 sites a day (24,399 sites added in March). ~330 new editors were added in March - no other directory come remotely close to that. ---- thats an awesome achievement. It is funny how many think DMOZ has to change and has all these problems. What it is doing must be working really well to achieve that kind of size and continual growth rate.

    Google obviously thinks that DMOZ adds value to its SERP's. The demise of DMOZ has been predicted at regular intervals for years at every forum by the whingers and there is no sign of it happening yet. There have been numerous attempts at email campaigns over the years to convince Google to drop DMOZ - they have obviously been a dismal failure as Google have done the opposite.

    How to get listed in DMOZ
    1. Have site that has unique content and adds value to the category (it has to be better than the sites already listed (what is the point is having a whole lot of sites in a category that have all the same info or products - how is the user benefited by that .... DMOZ is not concered about your SEO efforts) (I reject 2/3ds of the sites submitted to the cats I edit for this reason) [DMOZ wants to (and has) build the most comprehensive directory (not a search engine) and not catelogue the entire www)
    2. Write a guideline compliant site title and description (eg I often skip over sites that look as they they need a rewrite, unless I am in the mood - I go straight to the gudieline compliant looking ones. Keep your keywords out of it. Keep any marketing hype out of it)
    3. Submit once to the one best category - don't resubmit; don't submt deep links; don't submit to multiple categories (unless its once to a regonal and once to a topical category)
    4. After one month, check at resource zone to see if site is in the submisson pool (technical problems do happen). Please follow the instructions at RZ about formatting the request correctly (the editors at RZ often get called names in other forums - but wouldn't you behave like that if posters there do continually not follow the guidelines!)
    5. Forget about; move on; get a life; there is nothing more you can do - I can't believe the obsession people have with DMOZ (some need help for the obsession). Its a good link to have, but its just is link! - you can do well without it.

    Please take the time to understand what DMOZ is and isn't. DMOZ is not a free listing service for webmasters (a lot of other directories provide that service - ie you submit and your submissions get processed). A DMOZ editor is not there to process submissions. The role of the editor is to build a category of unique and valuable resources - they use may sources for that (the pool of suggested sites; personal knowledge; searching google; following links on sites already listed; trade publications; sign on the back of a delivery van; etc). A submitted site is nothing more than a suggestion - some editors just ignore this pool, as it really is the worse source of new sites that have unique content. (A while back I spent 3 hours, on a Sunday morning, going through a pool of 80 submitted sites to only list 2 --- the next 10 minutes were spent on Googe to find and list 3 really good ones). I signed up to list, not reject sites.

    What does an editor spend there time doing -- i spend > half my time deleting spam submissions, deleting crap sites (ie full of affiliate links wth no real content; moving sites to correct categories (this actually is time consuming as you have to find the category manually); deleteing submissions of deeplinks; deleting submissions of sites already listed in other categories; and rewriting the title/description of almost all submitted sites that are listed - all that is time taken away from actually adding value to the directory ..... if you are uhappy about the 2 mins to 2 years it takes for and editor to consider your suggeston, take it out on your fellow webmasters who submit all the stuff that takes up an editors time.

  20. #20
    SitePoint Zealot SiteTutorcom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbp
    if you are uhappy about the 2 mins to 2 years it takes for and editor to consider your suggeston, take it out on your fellow webmasters who submit all the stuff that takes up an editors time.
    How would one do that? We are all victims of spam!

  21. #21
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    How would one do that?
    It would be a simple as everyone who submits a site just following the guidelines.

    I came across a post by another editor in another forum yesterday who suggested every submission that was not compliant with guidelines just be deleted (in my area, thats 99% of them) and a ban put on the URL for 2 weeks. They suggested this should keep happening until webmasters can read and comply with guidelines. This would not prevent editors from going out and listing sites they find (I listed all my competitors and they were not even submitted) --- one of the periods of greatest growth of DMOZ was apparently mid/late 2003 when the <submit a site> was not working .... editors could actually get on and add sites without the crap coming in.

  22. #22
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    How would one do that?
    I should have also added, that often that some of the biggest critics of DMOZ and the biggest whingers are the biggest offenders. Often I will check the editing notes of the whingers URL's and guess what? ... they will often have track records of multiple submission to multile categories; etc etc ; or have sites that are really bad and will just not get listed; etc etc. It is them that harm the legitimate webmasters chances of being noticed by an editor

  23. #23
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy someonewhois's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbp
    I listed all my competitors and they were not even submitted
    It's good to hear from an honest editor. There's too many editors out there who just submit their site and never look at the category again. That sucks.

  24. #24
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    It's good to hear from an honest editor.
    I would not know DMOZ existed if I did not have my own site --- I applied for my category. I listed my site and all my competitors (they were not even submitted) - I am still there a few years later and know can edit ~50 categories (most unrelated to my area)

    There is nothing wrong with editing a category with your site, as long as you comply with the guidlines and I can be sure a senior editor was watching when I started. If I just listed my site and never went back, I would assume my site gets booted. If I added my site, tidied up the listed sites, cleared the backlog for the category, added some other good sites and never went back, the category would be checked by a senior editor - but at the end of the day an editor that does that and leaves (just to list there own site) has still added value to the directory. I have an editor in a category below me that has done just that - they probably listed their own site --- but they listed a lot of other good ones as well - they never came back. They have contributed and added value to the project.

    Those that just add there own site and never return are on thin ice...

    I have only met 3 other editors in real life --- none of them had there own sites!!! Two of them did not even know what SEO stood for!. One was a teacher, one was a university academic, and one was doctor - they all edited in their areas of interest. So do not automatically assume all editors are self serving.

    Another thing to keep in mind, is that if I or any other named category editor does not list a site, there are 200 or so other editors that can come along and do it. Besides, the value of DMOZ listing is not that great, so what can I possiblly gain by not listing a competitor? (if there is any benefit from keeping a competitor out, that benefit is so small its not worth worrying about)

  25. #25
    SitePoint Addict photoshopfreak's Avatar
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    How to get into Dmoz:

    Get hosted with geocities

    Build a crap site

    have crap content...

    Dmoz suck's & nearly every editor is an *******


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