Advice for handling a client

[xharine]

Hi,
I'll like to ask everyone's opinion on this and I hope to get as many views as possible.

I have just started freelancing so naturally any kind of jobs are welcome to me.
However, recently someone introduced a client to me, and I had already known I would be doing this job way below the market rate. It was fine to me. Then, this client got quite demanding and wanted change after change, even though everyone else I asked thought it was a perfect job that I had done.
I was supposed to do a logo, business card placing, letterheads, and website templates, all for 400 bucks, and that is Singapore dollars which is almost 1/2 of us dollars and 1/3 of pounds.

Do you think I should make my stand clear to him? Any idea of how to handle this client positively? This is a corporate logo that I am designing, and I am almost developing their whole identity system for them.

Any form of opinions is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[beley]

Well, that's a tough one. You have to be very careful with things like that. Did you have him sign any form of contract? Anything stating the number of changes he got?

When we sign a client, they know excatly what they're getting. Even if it's a package deal, there are a specified number of hours included. Anything over that is charged. Since they know it up front, they are much less likely to keep coming back for changes.

We also give three to five rough sketches or ideas at first. When a client singles one of them out, we begin working on that. We add their color scheme (or create one) and finish the logo or design on the computer (usually in Illustrator or Photoshop). Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that the client pretty much approved the design before it was even completed. They approved the general sketch so we know that's what they wanted. And since they only get so many hours of work, they can keep coming back as many times as they want - anything after their specified number of hours get's charged at our regular hourly rate.

THE MAIN POINT - be VERY specific in your contracts. Let your clients know EXACTLY what they're getting for their money UP FRONT. This is the easiest way to avoid problems all together. As for this situation... I don't know what (if any) contract your client signed and what it said. If they didn't sign anything, I would probably just be very honest with them and tell them the deal you gave them and the amount of work you've done on it. And politely tell them that if they want anymore changes it will be billed at XX an hour.

Hope this helps...

[xharine]

Hi Beley,
thanks for replying to my post.

I did not sign any form of contract with him, till now, it's all communication through email.

I think what I'll do is I'll wait and see what other changes he wants, and if the changes are not too big I'll just do it for him, if not, I'll tell him politely that I'll start charging. =P

Do you provide mock up designs before signing any contract?

Thanks.

[Saz]

Up until now, I've only built/updated sites for people for 'pin money' (basically next to nothing), as they've been friends or family running 'non profit' clubs and the like, so nothing like this has happened to me yet.

However, I now have the possibility of my first 'major' client on the way, and I'm going into it with my eyes wide open - hopefully.

I already have a full list of my terms & conditions on my website, in which I clearly state that any changes made after the design has been approved will be charged for, and the contract will state that the client, by signing the contract, agrees to abide by those terms & conditions.

Some people have told me I've gone a bit ott with all this, but I've heard so many stories, like this one, where clients request change after change and then the designer is faced with having to tell the client they have to pay more. This doesn't always go down too well, and the designer either loses the client, or ends up having to put extra hours in without being paid.

Xharine, all I can suggest here is that you tread very carefully. Like me, you're only just starting out and upsetting your first client is not really a good idea.

You may just have to bite the bullet on this one and make the changes your client wants. Perhaps, as Beley suggested, create some mock-up designs for the client to approve before you make further changes to the website etc.

Then, learn by this. Make sure that any further clients know exactly what they're getting for the money that they're paying you and get them to sign a contract. If necessary, send the contract in the post. Include a self addressed envelope, postage paid, so that all they have to do is sign and return it.

Good luck with this. Be sure to let us know how you get on.

[Snowbird122]

Wow you are really talented. I was looking at your website portfolio. I'm sure you will be successful in this business.

[xharine]

*sigh*
The thing with me is I'm very soft hearted, or rather weak willed. I feel that money is a very sensitive issue and I find it really hard to bring it up to my clients. Futhermore, they look at me (am 20) and they think I'm young and they seem to try to take advantage of the situation, no matter whether the work I produce is good or not.

Of course not all of them are like that, but recently there's a very difficult one. He seemed to expect the hell out of me, and wants something very very good......I feel like asking him to consult a professional graphic designer instead, but I guess he doesn't want to pay for quality. I do think I am already doing quite a good job for him, and I am very fond of the logos that I've done, but I guess everyone has different wavelength.

Thanks everyone for replying and giving me the advice. I shall try to be more firm and stronger.

[fatboy]

The best advice is to learn from this experience and be very clear with future clients at the beginning so that they know what to expect and what not to expect. With this client the best thing to do is try your best to make them happy. Word of mouth is everything in this industry. It can make or break you.

[Crooner]

Yes, reputation is very important - you don't want to have the image of 'cheap' and 'wimpy'. By that I mean I would rather have my clients saying "Yes, they are more expensive than some others but they do good work."

Age - is only what you make it. If you project a professional image at 20 you will be respected more than a 40 year old slacker.

Money and clients - Be polite but firm. Don't be afraid to ask for what a job is worth and if the client wants more just smile and politely explain that it is an additional cost. It is always best to spend a great deal of time ahead of time finding out exactly what the clients' needs are. Then come with a proposal addressing each of those needs. If the client bulks at the price (and it will be high because you've addressed ALL their project needs) just ask them which of the items they would like to delete to bring the price down. Don't just start dropping the price without dropping benefits. If you do this it appears to the client as if you were overcharging to begin with or you cheat yourself by cutting into your fair profit margin.

[BC]

Originally posted by xharine
*sigh*
The thing with me is I'm very soft hearted, or rather weak willed. I feel that money is a very sensitive issue and I find it really hard to bring it up to my clients. Futhermore, they look at me (am 20) and they think I'm young and they seem to try to take advantage of the situation, no matter whether the work I produce is good or not.

Of course not all of them are like that, but recently there's a very difficult one. He seemed to expect the hell out of me, and wants something very very good......I feel like asking him to consult a professional graphic designer instead, but I guess he doesn't want to pay for quality. I do think I am already doing quite a good job for him, and I am very fond of the logos that I've done, but I guess everyone has different wavelength.

Thanks everyone for replying and giving me the advice. I shall try to be more firm and stronger.

Take a short course in assertiveness if it helps. Otherwise the 'wiser' business people will immediately sense that you're a pushover and take advantage of this fact.

Be polite, firm and project a totally professional attitude at all times. By doing so the clients you're dealing with will find it harder to read your visual cues and are far, far more likely to treat you seriously as a business proprietor.

The key word here is upfront. If you think the guy needs a professional graphics designer (in the business we call it outsourcing) then say so upfront, but also offer your alternatives and your stuff upfront so that he knows what to expect and can then make a decision that's beneficial to both of you (in terms of money and stress levels!). If you think you can't do a certain part of the job, say so upfront and find a friend or someone else who can do it for you.

Try it - it works for me

The very best of luck!

[johntabita]

I feel that money is a very sensitive issue and I find it really hard to bring it up to my clients.

I can relate to that! All I can say is that it has gotten easier the longer I do this. It will for you, too, I'm sure. Just stick with it.

I was supposed to do a logo, business card placing, letterheads, and website templates, all for 400 bucks

I know of a company that paid a design firm $30,000 to do exactly that!

[Anarchos]

Here's what you need to do: make him an offer he can't refuse.

[beley]

Also, try this book - it has great sections on dealing with clients and negotiating, as well as collections and finding an attorney.

The Graphic Artists Guild: Handbook of Pricing and Ethical Guidelines, 10th Edition (2001)

This edition just hit the shelves about a week ago. I just got my copy a few days ago in the mail. Anyway, it has everything from effective negotiations and proposals to contracts and terms. It's a must for any designer - graphic, web, illustration, etc.

[Seer]

I had a similar situation like this. Basically, i'm just starting out in the Freelance world and took an opportunity to design a site without putting a lot of thought into what i'd charge and what i'd offer. I still recieve calls from the client on everything from changes on the site to how to defrag his hard drive. I've been doing anything I can to help and at no charge. I know i'm going to need to make some changes if I plan to have more clients. So, what i'm saying is that maybe you need to clarify what you are offering the client and close the deal ( I can see here why contracts are nice ). Otherwise, you may find yourself hearing from him quite often.

[tgranger]

Try our download and see if you like it..at the very least you can see some templates which can help you later down the line.

http://www.proposalkit.com/htm/free.htm

This is the PDF download link where you can get the new UK/CAN/US demo..won't be around too much longer as it is going back to disable-ware.

Cheers!

[Saz]

tgranger......

Thanks for that link....I'm downloading it now


Well I would be downloading it if the email had turned up

[TerraWeb]

Originally posted by Seer
I still recieve calls from the client on everything from changes on the site to how to defrag his hard drive. I've been doing anything I can to help and at no charge.

Situations like this sometimes have a good side, though. One of my first design clients was very labor-intensive, too. But in the years since then, she has referred several clients to me: her sister, her niece, her husband, and a couple of friends. If you look at it in terms of advertising, it was time and money well spent.

I have a current hosting client that is similarly needy. But again, I know I will get referrals from them because of my devoting (free) extra time and attention to that account.

Just another perspective. I do realize there are always those who will try to suck you dry and never give anything back, but I like to think those are in the minority.