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  1. #1
    SitePoint Enthusiast UrbanFirefly's Avatar
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    Angry Bad rep for advice...

    I just got a bad rep because I told a1nerd in his thread concerning his possibly being scammed that he did the right thing by reporting them.

    I wouldn't mind if I had actually given bad advice, or it was even advice that someone had followed, but it was something he had already DONE, and I was supportive of it. How is that bad?

    This is what the rep said: Report to PayPal after 1 hour?? That's wrong.

    Nowhere in the original post does it say that they only waited an hour before reporting the person, but I am accused of giving bad advice for information I did not have? As a matter of fact, a1nerd mentions that he thinks it isn't right to make someone wait 8-10 hours, and he posted that 3 minutes after my post!

    I can only give advice based on the information given. I am not psychic!

    I only just turned on my rep late last night right before posting that message because I had just figured it out, and this is my lovely introduction to the system!!!

    Everyone else here has been very nice. I just wish people would take things in the context given!
    Last edited by UrbanFirefly; Mar 16, 2005 at 23:55. Reason: darn typo....

  2. #2
    SitePoint Wizard gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy dc dalton's Avatar
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    Unfortunately this does happen ... I have heard about this little "problem" over there and to be quite honest with you I have taken a "Im staying out of this one" attitude when tempers flair like they seem to have here..... nothing good EVER seems to come of it!

    The whole rep thing happens ....... bad rep has happened to a lot of people for little or no reason but its not the end of the world. I was hit 3 times in one day like this and yeah you get mad at first (or hurt) but there are thousands of other GREAT people here who need and want help and are gracious when you give it.


    BTW, did you ever get that table color thing fixed? I see its still in your sig but when I read the post it looked like you had it licked!

  3. #3
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
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    Occasionally there will be someone out there with sour apples who will ding you for no good reason. Fortunately negative rep is only worth half the number of points positive rep is and there are more of us who give out positive rep just because we want to be nice, which balances out the whole thing.

    Don't let the occasional sour apples get to you. My feeling is that most of us are here to have friendly discussions on various topics and to share our knowledge with each other. Yes we will have disagreements over various issues. In many cases neither side of an argument is really wrong; it is just a matter of personal opinion (e.g. a recent thread on cookies). As such the only time negative rep should be used is for outrageous poor social behavior like insulting others or trolling. We shouldn't be giving out negative rep simply because we disagree with someone especially if they are simply trying to help.

    One personal note, I personally would rather not see this turn into another rep love fest. As such please do not give me personal rep for posts in this thread as I have no intention of participating in another rep love fest. I think there have been too many of those types of threads as of late.
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  4. #4
    Is Still Alive silver trophybronze trophy RetroNetro's Avatar
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    Hello

    I also got bad rep from the same person in this exact same theread
    http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243691

  5. #5
    SitePoint Evangelist luxinterior's Avatar
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    Funny things is if a certain somebody doesn't answer my IM's and PM's from over 48hrs since I did some work for him somebody else will be getting some bad rep.

    A certain phrase invloving 'kettles' and 'pots' and 'black' comes to mind but I'll hold fire for a bit longer just to give him a good enough chance to respond. After all it seems like the only reasonable and level headed thing to do IMHO.

    LUx

  6. #6
    ********* Genius Mike's Avatar
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    It happens, don't take it personally. However, flamebaiting the user is not the right way to go about it. That's how battles start and tempers flare. Best to just leave it alone.
    Mike
    It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me.

  7. #7
    Is Still Alive silver trophybronze trophy RetroNetro's Avatar
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    Hello

    Yeah it only dropped me 1 point so I realy don't care. I just saw this thread and figured I'd chime in.

  8. #8
    SitePoint Enthusiast UrbanFirefly's Avatar
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    Geez Johnny - So sorry! Yours was even tamer than mine!

    Mike - Just for the record, that was an attempt at levity. Perhaps I was still a bit too raw for it to come across as funny, but I had just read the exact same phrase within two minutes... Also, I have a strong sarcastic streak in my humor...

    Please remember that I did not start this. Both Johnny and I gave advice we considered to be good considering the information given, and were unjustly repped for it.

    I have only been on this site for a few days, and it bothered me. I would never hold such a thing against the forum or the many wonderful posters here, but it is a pretty lousy way to be inducted into the rep system. I do strongly feel that this is another form of 'troll' behavior.

    To be honest, I didn't even know that other post was even there until I went to make the link for this one, so it caught me by suprise...



  9. #9
    SitePoint Addict a1nerd's Avatar
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    Just to drop in my 2 cents it was 5 hours and the guy left in the middle of a transaction i found that suspicous. I was covering myself by reporting it. The guy was a newbie with no feedback or reputation i was not going to take my chances. He did make me wait 15 hours from the time he left during the transaction before i heard anything from him. It was clear after i read the thread what his intentions where. The mods deleted a thread where he earlier made a smart remark about me only offering $15 for the competion.

    I told my side of the story and it was deleted.

    I don't think it's fare that one flaky person should ruin my reputation on sitepoint. I don't think the person aboves rep should be effected to since he wasn't envolved.

  10. #10
    SitePoint Evangelist luxinterior's Avatar
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    a1nerd, is your PM box full and your IM turned off? I've been trying to contact you for over 48hrs about the work I did for you the other day. I've seen you online for the past 15 mins and have sent you another PM but still no response.

    Lux

  11. #11
    ********* Genius Mike's Avatar
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    Urban- that's fine, i'm not under the impression you started anything. Sarcasm is very hard to detect over an internet forum, trust me.

    a1nerd- Please don't drag this off topic.
    Mike
    It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me.

  12. #12
    SitePoint Addict a1nerd's Avatar
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    Pm sent, Yes my pm box was full i'm sorry for the delay. I accidently erased yours to free up space.

    Quote Originally Posted by luxinterior
    a1nerd, is your PM box full and your IM turned off? I've been trying to contact you for over 48hrs about the work I did for you the other day. I've seen you online for the past 15 mins and have sent you another PM but still no response.

    Lux

  13. #13
    SitePoint Evangelist luxinterior's Avatar
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    No problem at all, these things happen. I've responded to you PM and look forward to concluding our business together.

    regards

    Lux

  14. #14
    SitePoint Enthusiast UrbanFirefly's Avatar
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    Wink

    Funny Mike -

    a1nerd didn't really go off topic until you asked him not to - with help of course.

    Now I consider this to be clarification. I decided to read the person's posts whom I believe* to have created this issue, and I have to say, I stand by my comment about not taking his meds. Up until VERY recently, they were either helpful or at least nice and concerning the topic at hand.

    I find this comment concerning rep very interesting if I am correct though:
    I have to agree. As much as I wish negative rep served a more lofty purpose in the grand scheme of things, this seems to be one of the more common uses. I actually got negative rep once just for entering a logo in a contest. All I posted was the logo. I didn't even write anything, yet someone felt that my post was deserving of a negative. I'm sure this happens far too often, and quite likely it happens more to people who win contests. They probably get some "I hate you because you beat me" rep.
    So, someone was out of sorts and lashing out. Well, we all have our days, but I would think that people who are educated enough to have an interest in the topics discussed in these forums would be mature enough not to yell at the mailman because he overslept for work. That is about how relevant lashing out at the people trying to help one another is.

    I decided to reply to a1nerd's original post because it is one of the few areas that I actually have some experience with to possibly be of real help. I am not so good with programming, etc., which is why I'm here - to learn, but I wanted to give back what I could.

    KLB - You RoCk!

    BTW, did you ever get that table color thing fixed? I see its still in your sig but when I read the post it looked like you had it licked!
    dc - Thanks so much for your kind words, and no, it ain't licked yet...
    Help still desperately and graciously needed for my many ??'s!

    Everyone else - MuChAs GrAcIaS!

    *Since rep is given incognito, I am going on the context of the messages I have seen, my rep, and the identical language, but I don't believe that would hold up in court (I watch a LOT of CSI, etc...). It is more than gut feeling though.


  15. #15
    SitePoint Enthusiast TheJosher's Avatar
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    I don't really care about bad rep.. if 'reputation' is going to prevent me from saying what I really beleive, thats a bad thing


    Josh

  16. #16
    Design Addict helix7's Avatar
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    Sorry guys. Honestly, if I could take it back, I would. But hear me out for a sec.

    I was furious last night. This guy is exactly what SitePoint does not need. He breaks rules, treats contest participants badly, he even reported Blazen to PayPal for not responding within 1 hour. He said it right in the thread in question here:

    After i sent him the money only mins after we where chatting he was no where to be found and would not answere my emails or anything. I would like to get in contact with a mod so someone can investigate this person further. I already filed a dispute with paypal.
    That's not right. And it infuriated me that people were actually supporting him. Is this the kind of behavior we want around here? A designer/programmer-beware atmosphere?

    I appologize for the bad rep, and if the mods have any means of removing it I hope that they will after reading this. But I hope you guys can understand where it came from.

    - h7
    (awaiting my negative rep)

  17. #17
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helix7
    I was furious last night. This guy is exactly what SitePoint does not need. He breaks rules, treats contest participants badly, he even reported Blazen to PayPal for not responding within 1 hour. He said it right in the thread in question here:



    That's not right. And it infuriated me that people were actually supporting him. Is this the kind of behavior we want around here? A designer/programmer-beware atmosphere?

    I appologize for the bad rep, and if the mods have any means of removing it I hope that they will after reading this. But I hope you guys can understand where it came from.

    - h7
    (awaiting my negative rep)
    To me his post as did not say that he reported his incident to PayPal in less than an hour. I read it that the party involved provided their PayPal ID and that within a few minutes he had made the agreed upon payment, but they never replied back. I see no mention of the amount of time that elapsed before a report being made. I personally can understand how someone is new to this forum and posting a contest for the first time might be jumpy over making a payment and then not getting a timely response.

    The lesson to be learned is that who ever wins a contest should respond to receipts of payment in a timely manner so as not to keep the payer waiting.

    In regards to giving negative rep, it is always best to take a breath first and not to act on impulse. I also tend to think that we owe it to whom we are giving negative rep to give a honest reason and to say who we are. At the same time, we shouldn't give negative rep as a form of retribution.

    Your owning up to and apologizing for the negative rep was a class act. I'm sure there will be no hard feelings.
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  18. #18
    Design Addict helix7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLB
    I see no mention of the amount of time that elapsed before a report being made.
    What?

    ...only mins after we where chatting he was no where to be found and would not answere my emails or anything.
    Minutes after?? When someone pays us we need to be able to respond MINUTES AFTER??

    So what is a timely manner anyway? Blazen responded 15 hours later. 15 hours is too long? What about people who don't sign in multiple times per day?

    I still think a1nerd jumped the gun with reporting to PayPal and yelling "I've been scammed!" around the forums.

  19. #19
    Design Addict helix7's Avatar
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    And you're definitely right about taking a breath before giving out rep. I should have, and this thread could have been avoided altogether.

  20. #20
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helix7
    Minutes after?? When someone pays us we need to be able to respond MINUTES AFTER??
    Yes but he didn't say how long he waited until reporting to PayPal. As he said earlier in this thread, he actually waited five hours before reporting to PayPal. I personally probably would have waited a day or so and first reported the problem to a SitePoint person for their assistance. Then again, I probably wouldn't have chosen a new member with no track record.

    Quote Originally Posted by helix7
    And you're definitely right about taking a breath before giving out rep. I should have, and this thread could have been avoided altogether.
    Hey, it happens there's not much we can do now, but forgive and move forward. There are times when all of us would have benefited from taking a step back from the keyboard. I know I personally jumped the gun a few times in these forums and posted to a thread when I should have taken a breath instead.
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  21. #21
    SitePoint Enthusiast UrbanFirefly's Avatar
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    Smile

    helix7 -

    I appreciate your honesty and your apology. Yes indeed, a class act to take responsibility. Thank you.

    However, I do want to clarify how this came about...

    You wrote:
    What?

    Quote:
    ...only mins after we where chatting he was no where to be found and would not answere my emails or anything.
    Minutes after?? When someone pays us we need to be able to respond MINUTES AFTER??

    Yes, when you are in the middle of chatting with someone, especially during a business transaction, you don't just disappear!


    Look at a1nerd's original post in context:

    I had a open competition and i announced the winner. I told the guy he won. He told me to send him the money to his paypal address. I did instantly after i responded to his pm. After i sent him the money only mins after we where chatting he was no where to be found and would not answere my emails or anything.

    What he is saying is that right in the middle of their communications, several minutes after paying, the guy just disappeared. He probably went to bed, or to make a sandwich or something. It doesn't really matter, and hopefully all is well between them now, BUT this all could really have been avoided if he had just had enough courtesy to tell a1nerd he needed to go and would get back to him tomorrow, or whenever. That is the mature and responsible way to conduct yourself.

    a1nerd may have jumped the gun, but I know that I would be concerned if someone just vanished mid-conversation after I gave them money.


    As far as helix7 is concerned, I have no idea why you were so furious as this issue doesn't seem to have directly concerned you at all. I have a feeling that it stems from other issues you have with a1nerd, or maybe you were hungry, who knows... but I don't understand why you felt you had to lash out at people honestly trying to help, concerning only the facts we were presented with. As I said, I am NOT psychic! I would venture that few if any of us are.

    I have a suspicion that you and a1nerd most likely just have a communication barrier. Even if you never really address each other directly I think it can happen. Writing is like speaking, and some people just tend to grate on each other, while others feel bonded. I don't think either one of you are bad guys. Just remember, everything from arguments to wars are often started over nothing but miscommunication. Oh yeah, and EGO! ( Just look at current US Foreign Policy! )

    helix7, you showed your ego in your righteous indignation when you lashed out in those neg reps, but you also showed respect and class in your apology. I fully accept, and you won't see any neg rep from me. I hope others show restraint as well!

    ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~


    Now, anybody have any ideas for my questions?

    I have a logo I would like feedback on too...

  22. #22
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Bleys's Avatar
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    Ok, let's drop this here, guys. This was an issue between a1nerd and helix7 and shouldn't have been made public anyway. If you think you have been scammed please contact an Advisor or Team Leader (or mentor if none are online) directly.

    Urban Firefly: the best advice I can give to you is that uncalled for negative rep sucks, but don't sweat it. It's happened to all of us... it happened to me the other day. Rep isn't really used for anything but your own enjoyment and to give you a way to show appreciation to your fellow posters (or anonymously give someone criticism if you think they really deserve it--it shouldn't be used out of spite, though). Bottom line though: it doesn't mean anything. So just ignore it.

    Thanks everyone.
    Josh is a ghost
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  23. #23
    Design Addict helix7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UrbanFirefly
    As far as helix7 is concerned, I have no idea why you were so furious as this issue doesn't seem to have directly concerned you at all. I have a feeling that it stems from other issues you have with a1nerd, or maybe you were hungry, who knows... but I don't understand why you felt you had to lash out at people honestly trying to help, concerning only the facts we were presented with.
    Actually I had no contact with a1nerd prior to this incident. This really stems from a general frustration with contest holders lately. I've been the victim of non-paying contest holders, I've seen others fall victim to this, and I've seen one incident after another of contest holders just generally mistreating designers in one way or another (closing contests for bad reasons, mysteriously disappearing, underbidding, etc). This incident just puched me over the edge, I guess. a1nerd showed such blatant disrespect for the designers involved in his contest in more ways than one, and when I saw people actually supporting him, well, we all know what happened.

    It's just frustrating beyond belief to see what some of these people pull and get away with. How a1nerd's contest was allowed to go on is beyond me. How people can not pay winners, refuse to give feedback, ditch contests, all of which are clear violations of the rules, and then still be allowed to conduct business here is beyond me.

    I know this doesn't help my case, and in fact it probably makes my actions look even more psychotic. But I hope it helps everyone understand how this mess happened.

    Again, my apologies, and I'll be giving positive rep after I spread enough around to others to the guys I negative repped.

  24. #24
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Bleys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by helix7
    How a1nerd's contest was allowed to go on is beyond me. How people can not pay winners, refuse to give feedback, ditch contests, all of which are clear violations of the rules, and then still be allowed to conduct business here is beyond me.
    The Contest forums are among the toughest to moderate. If you see any of the above happening, report the thread with the button, or report it to a Mentor, Advisor, or Team Leader directly.
    Josh is a ghost
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  25. #25
    blonde.... Sarah's Avatar
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    closed cos I think this topic has been beaten to death. please review what Josh is saying here, we do what we can but I cannot teach the members to work "above the line", lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink analogy.

    thank you in future my PM box is always open
    Regular user


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