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  1. #1
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    The SitePoint Award is granted by members of the SitePoint Community Forums for outstanding work in the field of web development. Choosing a recipient of the award is done after careful consideration and input from the SitePoint Community members. The website does not need to belong to a member of the SitePoint community.

    For a website to be considered for a SitePoint Award it must:
    • be nominated for an award by a SitePoint member who is not affiliated to the nominated website in any way
    • not have been nominated within a six month period (although we will consider for a second review a nominated site which has changed its design/layout)
    • meet the requirements stipulated to an acceptable degree

    A SitePoint Award will only be granted to a website that meets the following requirements:
    • the website must be usable in the following environments:
      - Netscape Navigator 4.6 and above
      - Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 and above
      - Opera 5.0
      - Minimum screen resolution of 800x600
      - PCs, Apple Macs and Unix

      NOTE: although it states that the website must be "usable", this does not mean that it need to look exactly the same in all
      environments, just that the user can gain the same understanding of the website regardless of which environment they are using.
    • if a Flash website is nominated, an alternative must exist for non-Flash users.
    • the website must meet the level 1 requirements set by Bobby (www.cast.org/bobby)
    • the website must validate against a W3C DTD, this must be stipulated within the document
    • language must be English, although if the content is not
      relevant (i.e. an art website), exceptions may be made

    If an award is accepted a link back to SitePoint Community Forums must be placed on the winning website, together with the award graphic. Awards must be displayed in the size presented without being resized. Any award which is resized and displayed so as to make reading the information on the award illegible will result in a request to either (1) resize and redisplay the award at the full size in which it was created, or (2) remove the award entirely. Failure to comply with this stipulation will result in disqualification for the award.

    SitePoint will award a total of 6 awards a month, of which one
    will be selected as the WebMaster Spotlight of the month. All
    award winners will be recognised for their achievement on the
    SitePoint Network.

    The site chosen for the monthly Webmaster Spotlight will have an interview/article written up about their site including screenshots. These will then be profiled one per month in the SitePoint Network. All the profiles will then be archived for future designers to look up to.
    Last edited by Hierophant; May 23, 2001 at 17:48.
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  2. #2
    Skills to Pay the Bills Sparkie's Avatar
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    Why not show a sample to our members?
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  3. #3
    Sports Publisher mjames's Avatar
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    Originally posted by W. Luke
    If an award is accepted a link back to SitePoint Community Forums must be placed on the winning website, together with the award graphic. Awards must be displayed in the size presented without being resized. Any award which is resized and displayed so as to make reading the information on the award illegible will result in a request to either (1) resize and redisplay the award at the full size in which it was created, or (2) remove the award entirely. Failure to comply with this stipulation will result in disqualification for the award.
    I don't like the sounds of that. It sounds like you're forcing a site to put your pre-sized award image on their site. Are you just trying to gather free promotion? No offense attended, but I don't see the logic here. If I were to win, I would of course accept the award and be thankful, but I don't like the idea of having someone behind me forcing me to put their award image up, it seems.

  4. #4
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
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    I would tend to agree. At the very least Wayne, I might suggest that you have 2 or 3 different size awards. That way the winner could at least pick the one that best suited the design of their site.

    I would tend toward a smaller one, while there are others who would like a larger one.

    Just trying to implement another image into a pre-determined layout could be very difficult. I know that there are certain layouts that I have done where I would NOT have been able to fit one more thing in without screwing up the look.
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  5. #5
    Don't get too close, I bite! Nicky's Avatar
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    Originally posted by mjames

    I don't like the idea of having someone behind me forcing me to put their award image up, it seems.
    I understand your concerns, but if you accept the award you MUST display our graphic on your page. This is not so that we get loads of free impressions from the winner, in fact it will probably be the other way round. Anyone who wins a SitePoint award will be showcased on the SitePoint Network, therefore it is US who are sending traffic the winner's way, the least they can do is display the graphic. If you do not wish to display the graphic you can always politely decline the award. We will consider requests for specific changes made to the graphic, but only on an individual case basis.

  6. #6
    Sports Publisher mjames's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Nicky

    I understand your concerns, but if you accept the award you MUST display our graphic on your page. This is not so that we get loads of free impressions from the winner, in fact it will probably be the other way round. Anyone who wins a SitePoint award will be showcased on the SitePoint Network, therefore it is US who are sending traffic the winner's way, the least they can do is display the graphic. If you do not wish to display the graphic you can always politely decline the award. We will consider requests for specific changes made to the graphic, but only on an individual case basis.
    I still stand behind my opinion. With all due respect, I just disagree with this criteria.
    Last edited by mjames; May 25, 2001 at 11:03.

  7. #7
    Don't get too close, I bite! Nicky's Avatar
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    Marc, your objections are noted. Perhaps you could help us mould this award into a process that you feel would be more suitable for your own individual needs. It is obviously the first month that we are running it and we still need to iron out the creases. I would be more than happy to listen to any suggestions that you may have to make it more acceptable to you. Everyone will have a different opinion and the more people that voice them the better we can make this award scheme.

    So what exactly would you add to the description that Wayne posted?

    ~Would you not make the displaying of a graphic compulsory?
    ~Would you offer a slection of graphics?

    Please, we really want to make this work so any help/comments/suggestions are appreciated!

  8. #8
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    All awards require a link back. At least all the ones that I have seen.

    We are also offering you promotion for your site. A Full Article written with the Monthly Spotlight Winner and posted on the Network for Hundreds of thousands of Webmasters to see. Mention in at least one of our newsletters and the possibility of future prizes, though I can't go into more detail until there are some.

    We will work with the winners to help integrate the award images into their site.

    If you don't want to try for the promotion we are offering you then simply withdraw your site from the nomination process.
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  9. #9
    Sports Publisher mjames's Avatar
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    No, I don't want to withdraw my site from the nomination process. I would most likely display the award on my web site - I never said I wouldn't - I just didn't like the sounding of being forced to such a thing.

    Winning an award should be a honor - not a link exchange. If a site wins an award, shouldn't the primary reason for winning it be getting free promotion and recognition with no reciprocation action needed? Having this requirement hurts the value of the award, IMO.

    I have been offering a Site of the Week award for over two years and although we give each site a custom award graphic for each week, there is no action on their part required. And I have rarely seen an award that requires you to put it up, either. The winners of my award get a free week or prime promotion and brand-name recognition on my site - that's because they have an outstanding site in terms of design, content, and quality. If they want to display their award image, fine, but if not, there is no problem with that, either.

  10. #10
    You talkin to me? Anarchos's Avatar
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    I distinctly remember you saying something to this effect: "In fact, I'd rather not even accept the award if I'm being forced into putting it on my page. "

    You should just stop complaining, adding a single image to your site isn't as horrible as it sounds. If you don't think Sitepoint is a good enough site to deserve a link back, maybe you shouldn't hang around in their forums.

  11. #11
    SitePoint Wizard
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    Originally posted by W.Luke
    • the website must meet the level 1 requirements set by Bobby (www.cast.org/bobby)
    • the website must validate against a W3C DTD, this must be stipulated within the document

    Are these requirements too much to ask? How many sites do you expect to meet these requirements?

    Just out of curiosity I ran www.sitepoint.com through Bobby and the W3C HTML validator and it failed both tests (the page failed miserably on the W3C's html validator).

  12. #12
    Skills to Pay the Bills Sparkie's Avatar
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    Originally posted by creole
    I would tend to agree. At the very least Wayne, I might suggest that you have 2 or 3 different size awards. That way the winner could at least pick the one that best suited the design of their site.
    Just a small note.. the award itself is only 100x100 pix..enough to fit into a navigation bar or anywhere else you might like to place it. I've seen many other awards that are larger than this!
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  13. #13
    SitePoint Zealot
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    the website must meet the level 1 requirements set by Bobby (www.cast.org/bobby)


    the website must validate against a W3C DTD, this must be stipulated within the document

    I think this is too much in today's world

    Hardly any sites are compatible not even SitePoint.

    Here are sites that failed Bobby test:

    http://bobby.cast.org/bobby?URL=http....microsoft.com
    http://bobby.cast.org/bobby?URL=http...Fwww.yahoo.com

    after seeing that even Yahoo! failed the test, I decided to not waste my time and go any further.

  14. #14
    Don't get too close, I bite! Nicky's Avatar
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  15. #15
    SitePoint Zealot
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    Nicky,
    I really don't see the point in telling us that site that just have normal text and 2 pictures pass the Bobby test. If you're going to give those kind of sites the award, then you're going into the right direction

  16. #16
    Don't get too close, I bite! Nicky's Avatar
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    No, they were just examples. The Bobby test is only one aspect of the award, there are many more things that we consider. I understand that some people may think that maybe the Bobby test should not form part of the criteria.

    I must highlight though that these are just guidelines, nothing more, and we still reserve the right to give an award to any site that we think should merit one. I for one use Bobby as an indication of possible accessibility problems, not the end all and be all. I do not like the way that Bobby deals with JavaScript for example. But if a site failed Bobby because, say, lack of ALT tags, that to me shows lack of attention to detail, and surely it would not take a webmaster but a few minutes to add some ALT tags to images.

    Again, we are more than welcome for everyone's comments regarding this issue, so please keep them coming. I'm afraid though that this is it for me and we shall have to continue the conversation later on in the day as it is now 3.21am here!



    Byeeeeeeeeee

  17. #17
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    These sites meet critical Priority 1 Accessibility as listed by http://www.cast.org/bobby/.

    http://www.alistapart.com/index.html
    http://www.sitepointforums.com/index.php

    However the validation utilities will be used for guidelines and will give us a fast and easy way to check sites. Design and other human factors come into play in this as well which is also taken into account in the reports that Bobby provides.

    I will review the requirement of placing the image and possibly lower it to a recommendation. We want to work with you.
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  18. #18
    SitePoint Zealot Overgrow's Avatar
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    How do we nominate a site?

  19. #19
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Until I get a permanent form up, you can email your nominations to myself or any advisor.
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  20. #20
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    posted by Nicky
    I understand your concerns, but if you accept the award you MUST display our graphic on your page. This is not so that we get loads of free impressions from the winner, in fact it will probably be the other way round. Anyone who wins a SitePoint award will be showcased on the SitePoint Network, therefore it is US who are sending traffic the winner's way, the least they can do is display the graphic. If you do not wish to display the graphic you can always politely decline the award.
    Am I the only one who realized this statement didn't explain anything? If Sitepoint will be sending "load of free impressions" why do you require the graphic on the winner's site? Simply saying it's "the least they can do is display the graphic" is not an answer.



    I believe James' concerns are valid. Having so many requirements and restrictions for a contest make it less appealing.

    Forcing winners to display a link back to Sitepoint reduces the value of the award. It's like those scams that publish your writing in exchange for purchasing the book at a high price.

    Sitepoint most likely recieves more traffic than the potential winners of this contest, but that begs the question.... "Why would such a high traffic web site only grant an award in exchange for a link back to their site?"

    I know someone will probably mention some other contest that requires reciprocal linking, but there are also many other popular sites that don't require the link.

    I don't think anyone would mind displaying an image and/or link on their site, but being forced to do so is discouraging.

    Frankly, I feel Sitepoint made these requirements because they assume their loyal users will blindly follow any demands they make. Secondly, I'm not surprised someone (Anarchos) wrote a harsh reply telling James to leave this community if he doesn't like the rules. I am also not surprised that the Sitepoint staff will not admit that James' arguments are valid.

    Whatever Sitepoint's intensions may be..... they are offering an award with six winners a month and mandatory link placement. - Hmm, I guess there's nothing suspicious about getting high qaulity sites to display an advertisement in exchange for an award. (said with extreme sarcasm)
    Last edited by vector_matrix; May 26, 2001 at 20:19.

  21. #21
    SitePoint Zealot honging's Avatar
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    Awww, we can't nominate our own sites? Darn...

  22. #22
    Ex-SitePointer silver trophy
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    I just wanted to mention that I agree with Marc and Vector.

    (And I also realize this is off topic but...) I'm also getting tired of the snide remarks some people make when someone questions something (reply to this thread if you agree with me guys, so I don't feel like I'm alone on an island here ) on this site. Its happened to me once or twice, to the point where I don't even bothering suggesting and questing things (even though my intention is to help improve this website in whatever small way) and I've seen it happen in several instances.

    Although me and Marc aren't the best of friends or anything, for a person to even hint that he should not be around these forums is garbage. Marc has been here for quite a bit of time and is one of the top posters on this website and deserves a bit more - well - a bit more something.

    Anyway, just my thoughts here... and yes, I'll be hanging around here for quite some time. You can't get rid of me.

  23. #23
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Actually we designed the requirements and qualifications to make this a true reward. Not something you can submit an email and get an award the next day.

    The requirements are in place to make sure that the winning sites meet the needs of today's marketplace in both technology and design. I personally don't care how many graphics a site has if it looks good. I will leave a Flash Site if it doesn't have an HTML counterpart. Personally, I don't have time to sit through a five minute introduction of a site. I want to get the information I came for. If the site only has a flash version and they are selling products, they just lost my money. I will go elsewhere. Many other people are like this especially since 90% of the world's Internet users are on modems still.

    It is designed to signify that SitePoint, an established leader and recognized name in the Web Design and Internet Communities also recognizes these sites a being in the same league as ourselves. Every day, I hear "You have an awesome site", "I would love to run a site like SitePoint", "How do I make my site more like sitepoint?". What you don't know is that many of you do run excellent sites and we want to recognize those people.

    The winners of this award will be leaders and innovators in the field of web design. Not only in technical achievement but in usability, design and understanding the needs of others.

    Yes the requirements are strict but leaders are few and far between. This isn't something that will be given to thousands of sites every year.

    Each month we will have 6 outstanding sites and out of those six, one will be chosen as the best. I fail to see how this is a quest for large amounts of links or feeding off our members as has been implied. I don't see why the best sites in the world (in our opinion) would not want to display the award and be recognized as the leaders they are.

    I have said that I am reviewing the linking requirement and will post my decision in two days. You can agree with Marc or disagre with him... However we already said we would work with him and asked him for his opinions. So instead of complaining about the as yet non-existant award since it hasn't been given to anyone yet, maybe you could give some constructive criticism and ideas on it. Work with us because it is a two-way street. We want you to be proud to display our award. We want to build it into a prestigious accomplishment that shows our members are experts in the field of eBusiness and Web Design.

    Anarchos doesn't speak for SitePoint. Only the people with the little "SitePoint Shield Avatars" speak for the company of SitePoint. If you have a problem with what someone says in the forums, contact me and I will always investigate it.

    The Advisors help run the forums and speak for the community. They are my eyes and ears because I can't be everywhere and I can't read every post, even though I would like to. They do work under my direction though and always ask me for advice in difficult situations.

    I don't think I have ever criticized a suggestion made for this community. I may disagree with some and some are downright impossible to implement, but I still listen and work with the members. Not every suggestion is going to make it into production but many of them do here. Both in the forums and in the rest of the network. I don't know of many other multi-national companies that do that for their customers.
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  24. #24
    SitePoint Evangelist AlexC's Avatar
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    Originally posted by W. Luke
    These sites meet critical Priority 1 Accessibility as listed by http://www.cast.org/bobby/.

    http://www.alistapart.com/index.html
    http://www.sitepointforums.com/index.php

    However the validation utilities will be used for guidelines and will give us a fast and easy way to check sites. Design and other human factors come into play in this as well which is also taken into account in the reports that Bobby provides.

    I will review the requirement of placing the image and possibly lower it to a recommendation. We want to work with you.
    well wayne, if you go here: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=ht...doctype=Inline

    you will notice that it does not meet the w3c validator

    Alex
    Nearly 7 years old!

  25. #25
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    Frankly, I feel Sitepoint made these requirements because they assume their loyal users will blindly follow any demands they make. Secondly, I'm not surprised someone (Anarchos) wrote a harsh reply telling James to leave this community if he doesn't like the rules. I am also not surprised that the Sitepoint staff will not admit that James' arguments are valid.
    That's exactly how I feel! I just read this thread today and I was amazed about the restrictions and what you had to do if you won...

    If Yahoo! wins, I highly doubt they're going to put a link back to SitePoint etc.


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