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  1. #1
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    Now I've gone and given The Postfive Website a bit of an over-haul - fixed it so that is scales according to the size of the browser window and replaced all the font tags with a nice new style sheet (!) - I need it going over with a fine tooth comb!!!

    I'm sure I'm going to get slammed for using frames, as so many people here hate them, but I'm not too fussed about that, and as far as the 'over all look' of the site goes I'm happy (although any feedback there will be appreciated), however, I need to know whether or not the style sheet is working ok in older versions of IE (I use 5.5) and any version of netscape.

    I'd also like to point out that I think I'm being rather brave here! I've only had positive feedback about this site so far, but it hasn't been under the microscopes of any 'expert' designers yet and that makes me a little nervous!!!

    Still, in for a penny, in for a pound..........let's have it!!!!
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
    No longer Editor of the Community Crier.

    Don't mind me, I'm having a BLONDE moment!

  2. #2
    ********* Genius Mike's Avatar
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    Just a couple notes: You have roughly 5 or 6 text-images as links. About half of them have javascript mouseovers. I just thought you should stay consistant with that. And about your meta tags . I'm not 100% sure, but I think many of those aren't used by search engines any more. BTW, did you use FrontPage on ALL the pages?

    HTH,

    Mike
    Mike
    It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me.

  3. #3
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply, Mike.

    I did think about adding mouseovers to all the text-image links, I just haven't got round to that yet. I've been concentrating more on getting the site to scale properly and learning CSS, but, yes, you are right. It would look better if they were all the same.

    A friend of mine told me to take the meta tags off his site and just edit them so I really don't have a clue about what's right and what's wrong with them at all!!!!

    Yes I do use FP to build my sites now, but I originally started this one with an old copy of Hotmetal Pro. Why do you ask?
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
    No longer Editor of the Community Crier.

    Don't mind me, I'm having a BLONDE moment!

  4. #4
    SitePoint Member
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    style sheets tend to be foul beasts at this stage of the game. That being said, in my version of Netscape 4.76 (?) the site still looks great but the buttons do not depress. They do depress, however, in Mozilla .9 and Konqueror 2.1.1 So most Linux users should be able to enjoy your site. And it looks nice in IE 6.0 Beta. I'm not a big fan of the middle scrolling but thats just personal preference.

  5. #5
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    The buttons not depressing must be something to do with java script settings in Netscape. My husband has Netscape on his laptop and sometimes the buttons depress, other times they don't. Can't understand why. Fortunately, the javascript rollovers don't stop people having full access to the site!!!!

    Thanks for the Mozilla and Konqueror checks too. I have no way of browsing using them, so I was kind of relying on people here to do that for me!!!!
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
    No longer Editor of the Community Crier.

    Don't mind me, I'm having a BLONDE moment!

  6. #6
    Former Staff Member silver trophy Adam P.'s Avatar
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    I use IE 5.0 and I really like your site!

    I love how it scales to the browser window. And did you use frames? If you did, nice work of them. I usually hate frames, but they turned out great. I don't know if I like the green color scheme so much, but other than that cool site.

    Good layout, good titles. Good everything!

    I'll give this out of .
    SPF Mentor/Advisor 2001-2003
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    SPF Graphic Designer of the Year 2003
    AdamPolselli.com

  7. #7
    Former Staff Member silver trophy Adam P.'s Avatar
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    Sorry, I meant out of .
    SPF Mentor/Advisor 2001-2003
    SPF Designer of the Year 2002
    SPF Graphic Designer of the Year 2003
    AdamPolselli.com

  8. #8
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    I know there's a lot of green here....but it's a motor-sport thing.

    'British Racing Green' has always been and will always be associated with British motorsport. I was just trying to keep within the feel of that.

    Actually, if I was going to be authentic, I would have used a really dark green as that's the true 'British Racing Green', but it looked awful so I lightened it!

    All the green aside, I'm pleased you like it.

    Thanks for the review.
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
    No longer Editor of the Community Crier.

    Don't mind me, I'm having a BLONDE moment!

  9. #9
    Procrastinator Extraordinaire lucas's Avatar
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    my first impression upon entering your site was that it was good amateur-intermediate site. i do not think this site look professional. the reason for this was the top and bottom frames, and the use of the simple graphics and the basic, centered layout of the page.

    -you need to use a preloader script on the depressing buttons.
    -good navigation

    in general, i really dislike the centered layout that all the pages have. its an unnatural layout, as all magazines and newspapers are full or left justified.

  10. #10
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    It's not un-natural.....just non-conformist!

    I deliberately set the frames that way because I wanted a navigation bar on the bottom - because it's different.

    Just the same with the pages being set to cover the browser width instead of in columns. Many many sites are done with tables, with the content set out in columns and I didn't want that.

    Oh, and by the way, the only pages that are centered are the main index pages - ie: pictures page, articles page, fun page, and the actual picture galleries themselves. The others are all left aligned - or didn't you look hard enough? Oh, and the guestbook is centered too - basically because having the images of a book aligned to the left wouldn't look right!

    One more thing....the images do preload.
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
    No longer Editor of the Community Crier.

    Don't mind me, I'm having a BLONDE moment!

  11. #11
    SitePoint Enthusiast Forsteen's Avatar
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    Even though alot of people don't like frames, I think they worked well in this situation. You can't really mess up with a top and bottom frame when it comes to browsers (me think).

    The only thing is is someone that has a small monitor and has a screen res of 640x480. This is what I call being in a special setup, but most have a good size play area on there monitor so I wouldn't worry about it.

    I infact like the green and the pictures. They are the right size and good sharpness to them. They are also quite interesting. I like the frame around each picture too. To me the only thing interesting in racing is when there is a crash. Don't get me wrong, I wish no ill will on anybody.

    I'm using a 56k modem and found out the pics take awhile to load, but I'm on an island and we don't have anything great when it comes to internet lines.

    I hope this helps. Just wait till I get mine up here. Then it's your turn.
    Forsteen
    Law of Probable Dispersal
    Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed.

  12. #12
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    Thanks for the review, Forsteen.

    It's a bit of a specialist subject I guess, but I've had good feedback from visitors to my site (mostly marshals), so I must be doing something right.

    I am aware that the frames set up means that viewers with a 640x480 only have a small viewing area, but it is still viewable as everything scales to fit, which is the important thing.

    I look forward to seeing your site in this forum.
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
    No longer Editor of the Community Crier.

    Don't mind me, I'm having a BLONDE moment!

  13. #13
    You talkin to me? Anarchos's Avatar
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    The top frame is unnecessary and takes up extra space; you should just put the logo in each individual page.

    In your javascript, try changing:
    eval( 'document.images[imageName].src = ' +imageFile+ '.src' );
    to:
    eval('document.images['+ imageName +'].src = '+ imageFile +'.src');

  14. #14
    SitePoint Enthusiast Forsteen's Avatar
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    Even though alot of people don't like frames, I think they worked well in this situation. You can't really mess up with a top and bottom frame when it comes to browsers (me think).

    The only thing is is someone that has a small monitor and has a screen res of 640x480. This is what I call being in a special setup, but most have a good size play area on there monitor so I wouldn't worry about it.

    I infact like the green and the pictures. They are the right size and good sharpness to them. They are also quite interesting. I like the frame around each picture too. To me the only thing interesting in racing is when there is a crash. Don't get me wrong, I wish no ill will on anybody.

    I'm using a 56k modem and found out the pics take awhile to load, but I'm on an island and we don't have anything great when it comes to internet lines.

    I hope this helps. Just wait till I get mine up here. Then it's your turn.
    Forsteen
    Law of Probable Dispersal
    Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed.

  15. #15
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Anarchos
    The top frame is unnecessary and takes up extra space; you should just put the logo in each individual page.
    The top frame is there because I WANTED it to be there. It's part of the whole LOOK of the site.

    In your javascript, try changing:
    eval( 'document.images[imageName].src = ' +imageFile+ '.src' );
    to:
    eval('document.images['+ imageName +'].src = '+ imageFile +'.src');
    Why?
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
    No longer Editor of the Community Crier.

    Don't mind me, I'm having a BLONDE moment!

  16. #16
    You talkin to me? Anarchos's Avatar
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    The top frame is there because I WANTED it to be there. It's part of the whole LOOK of the site.
    I can tell that you WANTED the top frame to be there based on its existence, but you also WANTED to get your site reviewed. I took this as an invitation to REVIEW your site, and by REVIEW I mean post my OPINIONS. Just because something is part of the LOOK of the site doesn't mean that is must be implemented in THAT particular way. The whole PURPOSE of frames is to keep CONTENT available to the user at all times, which is why it is good for putting an INTERFACE. However, the LOGO on the site doesn't need to be viewed by the user at ALL times, just for a second or two. After this, it is WASTING space.

    Why?
    I think it's fairly obvious why someone like me would post something remarking on your javascript, but if you need it spelled out I can do it. If you remember, you posted something to the effect of:

    "The buttons not depressing must be something to do with java script settings in Netscape. My husband has Netscape on his laptop and sometimes the buttons depress, other times they don't. Can't understand why. Fortunately, the javascript rollovers don't stop people having full access to the site!!!!"
    This led me to believe that you might be interesting in fixing it. Based on this possibly untrue assumption, I looked at the javascript, and decided that the aforementioned line was most likely the source of the problem. I then proceded to suggest a modification to the code, as you no doubt remember. Hence, you might want to note diction I used ("try") as an open invitation at changing the code and seeing if it helps the problem. Then, if it does work, upload the changes, and if it doesn't, don't.
    Last edited by Anarchos; Jun 6, 2001 at 11:45.

  17. #17
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Ouch... that was acidy...

    To be honest, I see both of your points. I can understand why the webmaster put the design the way it is, but I'm not sure the user necessarily gains from the experience (not the necessarily).

    Center scrolling is considered "weak" as is center justification in terms of user impression, but if you're cool with that then the site is fine.

    I'd be looking for more content, a fuller use of the actual middle frame (everything centered means lots of whitespace all over the place). Consider having right or left columns for "items of note" or "news" or what not and justifying the rest left.

    I am a firm believer in the nav and the logo tying together somehow and the fact that they are separated by a whole frame doesn't do that for me.

    All in all I'd have to agree that it's quite decent. 3.7 stars
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  18. #18
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    Anarchos, all you had to include was a comment like............

    "With regard to the buttons not depressing, you could try...."

    and then maybe explained why this would make a difference.

    Now I know why you suggested that change, I thank you for offering a solution and I'll give it a try.


    With regard to my top frame.....I wanted BOTH the logo and the nav bar to be on permanent view - to give the site a border, if you like. To remove that top frame and just place a banner at the top of every page would break up that border. If you see it as 'wasted space' that's up to you. I don't.

    As I said when I posted my url here, I'm quite happy with the way the site looks. My concerns were with different browsers and how they displayed my style sheet - things I can't check for myself.
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
    No longer Editor of the Community Crier.

    Don't mind me, I'm having a BLONDE moment!

  19. #19
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    Originally posted by studiococo
    Center scrolling is considered "weak" as is center justification in terms of user impression, but if you're cool with that then the site is fine.
    Errrm..............doesn't your site have a center scroll bar??!

    Can I ask you, how far into my site did you go? I don't have everything centered.

    Lucas made a similar comment........said that it's un-natural to lay out a site this way. You can see my reply above

    I specifically didn't want my site set out in columns - a la magazine style. It's too common. Everyone's doing it. I never have been one to do things because people say I should or follow a particular style because it's 'the in thing'.

    Controversial? Maybe. Non-conformist? Definately
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
    No longer Editor of the Community Crier.

    Don't mind me, I'm having a BLONDE moment!

  20. #20
    You talkin to me? Anarchos's Avatar
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    Actually, you can check with as many versions of netscape as you care to download (compliments of http://home.netscape.com/download/ar...html?cp=dowarc ), and I suggest you get at least one 4.x and 6.0 to test with. I can understand asking people to check in IE, but asking people to check in netscape is just laziness.

    Also, as a web designer, I suggest that you try not to upgrade too much ahead of the typical user for your sites, which is IE 5.0, because it will make testing significantly easier.

  21. #21
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    I know this can come over as laziness on my part....but it's not I promise you.

    For some reason, Netscape won't work on this system. We've tried many times......with different versions.......and it just crashes the system big time. My husband has Netscape on his laptop, version 4.7 I believe, along with IE 5.5, but I rarely have access to it.

    I'm running IE 5.5 on here (husband's idea, not mine, as was installing Win ME!) and I'm not sure whether I can safely install older versions of IE too. Let me know if I can, and I'll happily put them on. I'm just a little paranoid, knowing what Netscape has done to my system in the past!
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
    No longer Editor of the Community Crier.

    Don't mind me, I'm having a BLONDE moment!

  22. #22
    SitePoint Enthusiast Forsteen's Avatar
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    I've been only on here for about a week now and I enjoy some of the "CONSTRUCTIVE" critism. But those who do it in a condescending way really have no right. I think everybody REMEMBERS this saying 'Treat somebody the way you want to be treated.'

    There are about 2-3 individuals I don't want to look at my site when I put it up to tell you the truth. I won't mention names, but you know who you are.

    I would rather be lazy than a jerk. But unfortunately you can't change all the *bleeps* in the world so you just ingore them.
    Forsteen
    Law of Probable Dispersal
    Whatever hits the fan will not be evenly distributed.

  23. #23
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    A few short points.

    1. My site is centre left... Also I've noticed the propensity of people in here to debate someone's point by saying "you do it too" or something similar.

    2. The reason "everyone" uses columns is because it works. Those who don't are amateur sites (geocities is full of them). Not because it's magazine style (creative tabling gets you away from this), but because:

    a. that's what users are used to
    b. information flow is clear and effective
    c. it is a friendly structure, thus easier for updating

    Either way we're not KNOCKING your site, just giving opinions, which is after all what your users will have (if everyone here is saying the same thing, odds are your users are thinking it (or most of them are)).
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  24. #24
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Jeremy W.'s Avatar
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    Either way, your site has lots of effort put in and that counts for something in my book
    SVP Marketing, SoCast SRM
    Personal blog: Strategerize
    Twitter: @jeremywright

  25. #25
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    Studiococo

    When I made the comment about your site having a center scroll bar, I added the at the end to indicate that the statement was made in humour.

    Unlike some people on here, I don't try to put people down. OK?

    I will go on to say though, that your comments regarding why people use tables
    a. that's what users are used to
    b. information flow is clear and effective
    c. it is a friendly structure, thus easier for updating
    are for want of a better word.....daft!

    a. If web designers are to constantly create sites in a manner that surfers are used to, then it's never going to change. Don't you think that's going to make it boring?!
    b. Putting information in a table doesn't necessarily make it clear and effective. I've seen sites done in tables that were nothing more than a confusing mess. Just as, in contrast, mine is clearly laid out and dead easy to navigate.
    c. A site done in tables is no easier for up-dating than a site which isn't.

    Now, this is the part I really take exception to:
    The reason "everyone" uses columns is because it works. Those who don't are amateur sites
    Like I said before. I've set my site up like this because I didn't want it to look like the majority of sites on the web nowadays. Yes I have items centered, but there is good reason that. I haven't just plonked things on a page and be done with it - that would be amateurish.

    If all the content on my index pages were left aligned, then people browsing with anything above 800x600 would get too much white space to the right of the screen and it looks awful. The same goes for the Guestbook and the thumbnails on the pictures pages, which are in centered tables. Unfortunately, centering the tables means the captions attached are centered too, but for the time being it will have to do. I'm going to have to restructure the pictures pages anyway, as I'm getting far too many coming in now that the racing season is well underway, so I'll deal with the centered text problem then.

    Other than this, all main bodies of text are left aligned, because that's how they look best.

    I've put a great deal of thought, time and effort into this site. It fits and looks good in all resolutions from 640x480 all the way up to 1280x1024. As far as I'm aware it works in all browers (with the exception of those which don't support frames, but that will be coming into play very shortly). It's easy to navigate. Full of info and still growing but remains uncluttered. And at the end of the day, something very few seem to realise, this is the very first website that I ever built.

    An amateur I may be in terms of how long I've been designing compared to some people on these forums, but amateurish I'm not.
    Last edited by Saz249; Jun 6, 2001 at 11:32.
    Saz: Naturally Blonde, Naturally Dizzy!
    No longer Editor of the Community Crier.

    Don't mind me, I'm having a BLONDE moment!


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