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Thread: php vs asp

  1. #26
    SitePoint Wizard DougBTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drzoid


    An island near Indonesia

    Sounds expensive, no chance I'm buying Viflux a plane ticket there!
    Hello World

  2. #27
    SitePoint Wizard DougBTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drzoid
    Are you talking about ASP or ASP.NET?
    ASP I believe.

    And yes, you can use JScript and VBScript in ASP.NotNet, so you can't say ASP.NotNet is a language itself. Whether it qualifies as a famework... I'm not so sure

    Douglas
    Hello World

  3. #28
    Non-Member coo_t2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougBTX
    ASP I believe.

    And yes, you can use JScript and VBScript in ASP.NotNet, so you can't say ASP.NotNet is a language itself. Whether it qualifies as a famework... I'm not so sure

    Douglas
    Yeah, from what I remember, I think ASP.old is just a collection of COM objects that get scripted via VBScript, JScript, I think I've even heard of people using Perl to script ASP. Do people still use ASP.old?

    --ed

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    Seems I know even less about ASP than I already thought .

  5. #30
    SitePoint Wizard Sillysoft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoded
    Here let me try.


    #1 and #2 relate to the eventual output of the app (like HTML), which is done equally well by both technologies. Or as DrZoid would say, more than equally well.

    #3 seems to be a plug for PHP

    #4 seems to be a plug for PHP.

    OK, Silly, given the situation that you are the programmer and you choose the implementation, and given your criteria above, when exactly would you be choosing ASP? I'm sure there are times, it just isn't at all clear from the above. Maybe I missed something in #1.
    Sorry, no plugs there. I have created applications from asp and php. The times I chose asp over php is when the server was powerful and the OS was windows. I chose php when they wanted it on a cheap server with linux.

    both can handle the job, Im just giving criterias I go by. This isnt a speech about who is better, its a speech of no such thing of which is better, all depends on situation and customer needs. I also forgot to add another one:

    5. What type of database will you be using (If MS SQL then I would recommend ASP)

    Silly

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sillysoft
    I have created applications from asp and php. The times I chose asp over php is when the server was powerful and the OS was windows.
    Seems to me that PHP will run quite well on powerful servers and even on Windows. It will also connect perfectly well to MS SQL databases. Thus I am still at a loss as to when and why you would make that choice.

  7. #32
    SitePoint Wizard Sillysoft's Avatar
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    Hardcoded I dont know what you want to get out of this. All I was saying is no such thing as php vs. asp. It depends at the project at hand. PHP is not the all in one answer, nor is ASP. I dont have an all in one answer, just answer from experience. Take it with a grain of salt.

    I knew I shouldnt of responded to this post

    Silly

  8. #33
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    I guess what I want to know is whether there is any good reason at all to bother learning ASP. You have failed to produce any convincing circumstance when it would be clearly 'better' to use ASP. But you've come up with a few good reasons why, in the absence of other deciding factors, you'd might as well go with PHP (namely #3 footprint, #4 portability). Please clear up the mysterious other deciding factors?

  9. #34
    SitePoint Wizard Sillysoft's Avatar
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    My posts were not aimed at swaying you one way or another. I dont give a hoot who programs in what. The moral of the story is I get tired of seeing threads php vs. asp. Weither or not you see any good reasons to learn asp is not the scope of my posting nor is convincing you one way or another. Good thing this wasnt php vs. perl thread.

    Also reverse your previous post, you havent convinced me why asp couldnt do the jobs of php. See my point?

    Silly

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    Hmm..if you're tired of them then one has to wonder why you bother posting in them.

    So are you saying there's no good reason to start a project in ASP rather than PHP? You just do that every so often to "keep up on it", or is it something more mystical, like a "feeling" or the phase of the moon?

    Saying you do it whenever you can get away with it, like when the server's powerful enough, is like saying "whenever I have enough gas money I take the dump truck to pick up the bread and milk".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sillysoft
    My posts were not aimed at swaying you one way or another. I dont give a hoot who programs in what. The moral of the story is I get tired of seeing threads php vs. asp.
    Not just you

    Quote Originally Posted by Sillysoft
    Good thing this wasnt php vs. perl thread.
    Well, lets start the combat! Who's on PHP's side and who's gonna fight for Perl?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sillysoft
    Also reverse your previous post, you havent convinced me why asp couldnt do the jobs of php.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sillysoft
    Also reverse your previous post, you havent convinced me why asp couldnt do the jobs of php. See my point?
    No, I don't. You gave two circumstances above where ASP couldn't do the job: where the owner wants portable code, and where the owner is on a crappy server. Where are the circumstances for ASP?

  13. #38

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    Actually Sun has got an ASP implementation for Unix machines (so far about portable code) and the Mono project might be able to support ASP.NET on non-Windows machines as well.

  14. #39
    SitePoint Wizard Sillysoft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoded
    Hmm..if you're tired of them then one has to wonder why you bother posting in them.

    So are you saying there's no good reason to start a project in ASP rather than PHP? You just do that every so often to "keep up on it", or is it something more mystical, like a "feeling" or the phase of the moon?
    I keep posting because its rude to not respond. Originally my reason for posting was saying there is no php vs. asp. Its about the project at hand. Why dont you give me good reasons for not using ASP? Do you know ASP?

    Saying you do it whenever you can get away with it, like when the server's powerful enough, is like saying "whenever I have enough gas money I take the dump truck to pick up the bread and milk".
    I never said I do it when I can get away with it. you need to quote the whole sentence not just the part you want to mock. If the server is powerful enough AND has windows then I normally go with asp. Thats just me. Your free to think otherwise. God forbid I give an opinion.

    Silly

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sillysoft
    If the server is powerful enough AND has windows then I normally go with asp
    Look I'm not trying to mock you, for frig sakes, I just want to know why? I don't care if you program in binary with a rivet gun. I'm trying to learn something. When do you choose ASP over PHP? Why do you do that? What is the advantage? Why wouldn't you just use PHP all the time, so you could become even more expert in that one language rather than spreading your brainpower around on languages that you apparently use whenever you can get away with it, and for no other reason? Why would you sometimes choose ASP, when, in the absence of other arguments, that just makes your code run on less servers? Can we let go of the language zealotry here and just get down to the brass tacks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sillysoft
    Why dont you give me good reasons for not using ASP? Do you know ASP?
    No, I don't, I don't like anything about Windows, but you already handily supplied a couple of reasons not to use ASP.

  16. #41
    Employed Again Viflux's Avatar
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    If you want to compare ASP.OLD with PHP, you have to compare ASP.OLD with PHP 3, MAYBE PHP 4.

    The only reason to use ASP.OLD for ANY project these days would be if it was a maintenance project for an application that was originally developed in ASP.OLD.

    That version of ASP is dead. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

    Now, if you want to compare PHP 5 and ASP.NET, you have a more level playing ground. However, you also have more players on the field. As mentioned above, you can toss Java, Perl, Python, Ruby, etc... into the mix.

    The winner depends not on the language, but rather on the programmer. You can create equal websites regardless of the backend. The factors that drive your decision are numerous; cost (In terms of IDE's, Web Server, Developer time), in-house knowledge (Why use .NET if all your programmers are J2EE experts?), existing infrastructure (Again, why use Java if you have IIS servers already setup to run .NET applications), and, most importantly in my experience, your boss/client.

    The boss/client will often times be caught up on the latest buzzwords. They don't know a Strut from a Visual Studio, but they know what they want their application to be built in. And in this line of work, keeping them happy is the bottom line.

    If they want their application coded in ASM so it runs fast, I'd be glad to do it. And, of course, charge appropriately.

  17. #42
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    It doesn't matter. I know where I live .NET and ASP developers are in higher demand than PHP developers.

    But no one can say .NET can handle large applications better. I develop for a large employer in the U.S. and we have 4,000+ users (administrators, managers etc.) and 12,000+ elearning users. All PHP and Oracle running on a Solaris box (is it called a box when its taller than I am?)

    But I am open to learn ASP and .NET.... It can't hurt.
    The only function of business is to create customer value and to innovate. - Peter Drucker

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    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoded
    Can we let go of the language zealotry here and just get down to the brass tacks?
    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoded
    No, I don't, I don't like anything about Windows, but you already handily supplied a couple of reasons not to use ASP.
    Does this go together at all?

  19. #44
    SitePoint Wizard Sillysoft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardCoded
    Look I'm not trying to mock you, for frig sakes, I just want to know why? I don't care if you program in binary with a rivet gun. I'm trying to learn something. When do you choose ASP over PHP? Why do you do that? What is the advantage? Why wouldn't you just use PHP all the time, so you could become even more expert in that one language rather than spreading your brainpower around on languages that you apparently use whenever you can get away with it, and for no other reason? Why would you sometimes choose ASP, when, in the absence of other arguments, that just makes your code run on less servers? Can we let go of the language zealotry here and just get down to the brass tacks?
    No, I don't, I don't like anything about Windows, but you already handily supplied a couple of reasons not to use ASP.
    I choose ASP over PHP when it comes to Windows. I did some testing and PHP runs slower on Windows then it does with ASP. These are my findings. Again feel free to come to your own conclusion. Using MySQL on windows is slower, according to their website at the time I did the testing MySQL was optimized for a nix OS. Functionality wise I dont think there is much difference.

    Also dealing with customers they might have a Windows server and refuse to install PHP. I had one customer who had an access db on a windows server and only allowed ASP. So I had to build an application in ASP per customers request. My current job I program in perl, php, java and even bash. It is required to know multiple languages as I wouldnt use Java to do regex, I would use perl or php. It all depends on the project at hand.

    Silly

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    Quote Originally Posted by soonerdm
    I know where I live .NET and ASP developers are in higher demand than PHP developers
    Yeah, here too. I'd love to learn .NET and expand my horizons a bit, but in the middle of a busy career doing what I do, it just seems like I'm going to need a reason to get going on it. (other than my own personal gratification, of course). And I certainly can't say that I am an expert in PHP, so I'd almost feel bad about jumping around from language to language without just cause.

    In our situation I can pretty much dictate the platform I want to use for the job. If I said, OK I need some room on one of those Windows servers to do this next thing, they'd say OK here's some room. I just need somebody to say, "if you use .NET you can develop x faster, or x will run better, or you can only do x in .NET"

  21. #46
    Tranceoholic lilleman's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Quote Originally Posted by Sillysoft
    I choose ASP over PHP when it comes to Windows. I did some testing and PHP runs slower on Windows then it does with ASP. These are my findings. Again feel free to come to your own conclusion. Using MySQL on windows is slower, according to their website at the time I did the testing MySQL was optimized for a nix OS. Functionality wise I dont think there is much difference.
    I haven't used ASP regularly (as I mentioned before, I only tested it a couple of years ago), so I can't make a comparison (regarding speed) between ASP and PHP. What I can do is to say that I've been using PHP and MySQL on our two computers since october 2002, and from what I've seen, it doesn't go much slower than it does on a Linux/Unix server.

    Yours, Erik.
    ERIK RIKLUND :: Yes, I've been gone quite a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silly
    I choose ASP over PHP when it comes to Windows. I did some testing and PHP runs slower on Windows then it does with ASP.
    Thanks. That's what I was after. Was that with PHP on Apache or PHP as an IIS ISAPI? I had occasion recently to do a project in PHP on an IIS server with MySQL on localhost. It was lightning fast, but certain things were incredibly annoying, like the lack of $_SERVER['DOCUMENT_ROOT'] and weird things involving protected directories. It was a rather average site...you know like it had a newsletter thing and a CMS to add movies and games. Well here it is here:http://www.movieexperts.ca/. Do you suppose it would run faster in .NET?

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    Personally I think the PHP community is what drives me to write PHP applications. It seems no matter the problem there is a class or script out there that does exactly what you are wanted to do. You can then tweak as necessary. There are so many open source and freely distributed PHP applications out there it is amazing. Plus all of the forums like SitePoint are just filled with knowledgable people that can answer questions day or night. To sum it up the open source atmosphere of PHP is a selling point IMO.

  24. #49
    SitePoint Wizard Sillysoft's Avatar
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    PHP with IIS. .NET is a framework, if you are going to learn the framework use C#(sharp), vb.net is for people who been using vb/asp. I may be wrong but I thought there was talk with getting php to work under .NET?

    I haven't used ASP regularly (as I mentioned before, I only tested it a couple of years ago), so I can't make a comparison (regarding speed) between ASP and PHP. What I can do is to say that I've been using PHP and MySQL on our two computers since october 2002, and from what I've seen, it doesn't go much slower than it does on a Linux/Unix server.
    Again this was my findings. Opinions and experience will vary. Maybe I did something wrong? I had other coders look at my asp code for bad coding and the link. I had people check my server config to see if I didnt set it up correctly. I even tried php on Windows2k3 and it was god aweful slow in query times. The times were a full 2 to 4 seconds when grabbing and displaying 1500-2000 records with mysql, with the exact same code on linux with php and mysql it never went above 1 second.

    Silly

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    ********* wombat firepages's Avatar
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    OK , you have to port your application tomorrow from server a to server b , or is it server b to server a ? no matter , server a is win32 , server b is *NIX

    you can see the trouble ASP/.NET is going to have there , & thats one of the major reasons that now I stick to PHP as and where I can. (& please dont say mono, you may as well say chillsoft , and anyone who has been there knows what I am talking about)

    .NET on win32 is naturally going to be a faster than PHP/IIS and faster still than than apache/PHP(on win32) , after all win32 is its native platform , for production work I would not consider apache-PHP on win32 though PHP(fastcgi)/IIS is workable.

    php-gtk2 (php5/gtk2) is underway , so not only can your web-based applications be x-platform but any supporting GUI's can be as well (yes you could use python/tcl etc but why would you with a stable php-gtk?)


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