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  1. #51
    Original Gangster silver trophy Thing's Avatar
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    I just use Maxthon. It's run off of the IE engine, but has an array of features (including tabbed browsing). If your worried about spyware then get SP2. That seems to fix about 99% of the spyware problems at my work. I just can't stand surfing to a site in FF and it being HORRIBLY off. Reason being is developers don't develop to standards, they develop towards IE.

    (not everyone but most)

  2. #52
    Non-Member DaveMichaels's Avatar
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    ActiveX is MS-specific - I don't know why anybody else should support it. MS should make a plugin like Macromedia does for Flash, Apple for Quicktime, Sun for Java.

    Firefox has many neat extensions, and I don't think they're any hassle to update. Updating Firefox from 0.9 to 1.0 automatically handled importing them. Only complaint is a lot of them are slow updating to 1.0.

    What do you mean be lack of a clipboard? I use cut & paste all the time.

  3. #53
    Non-Member DaveMichaels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drzoid
    I asked what your point is. But this is becoming off-topic now.
    Are you really that dense? My point is I don't trust MS for security. Leaving customers of products that really aren't that old case in point.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveMichaels
    Are you really that dense?
    I think you should watch your language young boy!

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveMichaels
    My point is I don't trust MS for security. Leaving customers of products that really aren't that old case in point.
    Your choice.

  5. #55
    Non-Member DaveMichaels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drzoid
    I think you should watch your language young boy!


    Your choice.
    Thanks to Firefox I do have a choice!

  6. #56
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveMichaels
    What do you mean be lack of a clipboard? I use cut & paste all the time.
    Try copying and pasting into their WYSIWYG editor control... Unless you go through an entire hassle of editing javascript files shipped with the program, you can't do it. It will pop up an error that points to a 3 year old error for Netscape. Why offer something like WYSIWYG if you aren't going to support all the functionality.
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  7. #57
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hierophant
    Try copying and pasting into their WYSIWYG editor control... Unless you go through an entire hassle of editing javascript files shipped with the program, you can't do it. It will pop up an error that points to a 3 year old error for Netscape. Why offer something like WYSIWYG if you aren't going to support all the functionality.
    I just tried it and copy/paste worked fine for me

  8. #58
    Non-Member DaveMichaels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hierophant
    Try copying and pasting into their WYSIWYG editor control... Unless you go through an entire hassle of editing javascript files shipped with the program, you can't do it. It will pop up an error that points to a 3 year old error for Netscape. Why offer something like WYSIWYG if you aren't going to support all the functionality.
    WYSIWYG editor control? You lost me - all I can think of is TEXTAREA.

  9. #59
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Everytime I try to copy and paste, I get an error message (see attached) that leads to this page. It seems that I can only enable this for one website and I need it on at least half a dozen. An interesting note on the error, when clicking on the "Ok" button to open the page linked above, Firefox will block it as a popup.

    No matter though, I just use IE for those sites in able to access the WYSIWYG. I don't get the error on vBulletin Sites but it occurs on packages using HTMLArea, FCKEditor and the WYSIWYG in Mambo.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  10. #60
    SitePoint Wizard megamanXplosion's Avatar
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    1./ tabbed browsing is fun and a bit of a novelty. (wears off quite quickly though when you hit close by mistake and lose the whole damn 15 pages you were looking at!)
    This isn't a problem with Opera. Opera 8.0 Beta 1 comes with the "prefer pages inside window" option by default which is a dumbed-down version of their MDI interface and it gives the tabs a close button. By switching to the "Advanced Opera Workspace" the buttons will be removed and placed at the very top-right on the menu bar (along with minimize and maximize buttons) so there won't be a button on the tab. Whenever you want to close a tab in the "Advanced Opera Workspace" you simply middle-click the tab, which I think would help you a lot from closing pages by accident. And, on the rare occassion that it still happens, you can use the "Window Trash Can" and simply open the menu and select the window that you accidentally closed and it will open and appear instantly (because of Opera's memory cache.)

    2./ tabbed browsing is useful when surfing porn at work! (yes we all do it!)
    Indeed

    4./ I get regular updates from Microsoft for IE 6 (whether I want them or not).
    I believe they were referring to updated functionality rather than security fixes. SP2 was the first time they've actually updated IE with anything useful since IE4, which I believe was their point.

    5./ the reason IE is seen to be full of holes is because the hacking/virus/yoofs of this world have made it their mission to pull microsoft down. If someone targetted FF I feel sure that there would be security violations left, right and centre.
    Yes but there is a difference between Firefox and Internet Explorer, the open-source license. If Firefox were ever targetted like Internet Explorer is (which would signify that it has a much bigger chunk of the market) then those problems would be fixed very quickly in comparison to Internet Explorer's closed-source model. It only takes one person to submit a fix for the problem and it can be patched within hours (if I recall correctly, one of their patches was done about 15 minutes after hearing about the problem because someone submitted a patch to them.) The open-source model is also the reason why Firefox has a better track-record at fixing problems, you don't have to pull in your whole development team in an office to fix the problem, it could be fixed without the main development team being there. I am confident that if Firefox were to be targetted like Microsoft then it would have a bunch of security problems found, but they would be terminated immediately afterward.

    Just because that's true for you doesn't mean that's true for everyone else. It is a proven fact that IE installs more adware, spyware, and so forth, onto your computer.
    It's a proven fact that IE can be exploited if you configure it in a way to allow the exploitation. With a properly configured and updated Internet Explorer, adware and spyware will not be installed on your machine. I also have not encountered a single virus/spyware/adware (except tracking cookies which are not prevented by any browser as of now) on my machine due to using Internet Explorer. My parents also haven't had a single trace installed on their system (since SP2, that is, since they're computer illiterate and don't understand how bad activeX is.) I would also like to add that certain anti-virus vendors include spyware/adware checks and protection by default, like Kaspersky. It's not just an improperly-configured IE that causes spyware to be installed, it's an improperly-configured operating system.

    But I've noticed marked improvement on more than a handful of web sites.
    These sites wouldn't happen to be dynamic (forums, blogs, etc.,) would they? I have a strange feeling that they are, considering the IE-caching bug I mentioned earlier.

    You are kidding, arent you? Whether they are any good? Beside the music player ALL these features are available via the Google Toolbar. Which is btw only available for IE
    I can rig up a simple media player and make it launchable through any browser (IE, Firefox, and Opera) without much trouble at all. It certainly isn't something which is impossible for other browsers. Having it embedded directly in the application, perhaps, but it's not much different to press a button to launch an app and then control the media player

    As for the google toolbar, there is something almost identical to it in Firefox. I have it installed and it tells me the PageRank of the page I'm viewing and everything, the only major difference is the people who made it

    History navigation in all browsers really sucks, I can't believe people even consider it. Come on, an alphabetical listing of every page you visited in the last 24 hours? How is that even useful?
    An auto-complete address field seems pretty useful to me, but call me crazy

    Maybe if Firefox could support signed ActiveX (based on the user's options) as well as proper embedding of multimedia in the page, then it might have more going for it. So far, no one has shown one feature of Firefox that isn't available in IE. Heck, you can even use tabbed browsing if you use an IE shell like Avantbrowser. Or you can completely write your own browser shell since the entire API is documented.
    You can also completely rewrite the entire Firefox shell since Gecko is an easily embeddable rendering engine, just like MSHTML is. In fact, it probably wouldn't take much work at all to create a full-featured browser with either rendering engine. I have a Delphi (rapid application development environment) component which embeds the gecko engine in the program, I also have a wxWidgets library called wxMozilla if I feel like making the browser with C++. So, in this regard, Mozilla would have to win because it's just as easily embeddable as MSHTML but offers multi-platform capabilities and it's much more standards-compliant. Opera Software has just started allowing companies to embed their rendering engine but do not allow basement programmers (like I'd consider myself as,) to embed it in their programs which is a shame in itself. The thought of embedding Opera's rendering engine into my program and then making it run in OperaShow mode to create a slideshow for the help documentation sounds incredibly sexy, hehe. Hopefully they will extend this capability to normal people (if they did then they would definately get more users!)

    Yeah, people here will mention standards compliance. As an Internet User, I don't care about that. It isn't relevant, either the page works properly or it doesn't. I don't care how it is coded. As a developer, I see it moderately important but I don't care if my site is perfect to the last pixel or whether a box is a table or div, as long as it works and I make sales.
    The only reason some sites don't work in Firefox or Opera is because Internet Explorer is not standards-compliant. If Internet Explorer were standards-compliant in the first-place then there wouldn't be any compatibility problems for designers to deal with. Users might not care about that, but if they knew about it then they would, and developers should care even more than moderately. If it weren't for noncompliance then our lives would be about x4 easier (and it would help us bring in about x2 as much sales.)

    I see no one has really talked about the problems with Firefox either like the lack of an ability to add sites to a trusted level so that the clipboard is accessible properly, or the fact that it forgets how to auto-refresh pages every few thousand page loads, or how javascript just decides to stop working. All should be clearly bugs but have existed in the last 10 versions, and the lack of a clipboard is considered a feature. Go figure.
    I'd consider it a feature. I don't care how much I trust a website, they have no business looking through material that I have copied into the clipboard. If they want it then I can right-click and paste it in there for them, otherwise they have no business knowing what is in there. That's just an opinion, of course.

    For a 1.0 version, Firefox is okay. Just feel more should be in it after almost 4 years of development on Gecko and this new interface. I do use Firefox everyday for work but once I am done working for the day, I start up MSN Explorer 9.0 and have fun on the Internet.
    More like 7 years considering that Firefox is just a spinoff from Mozilla which was a spinoff from Seamonkey or whatever they called that thing

  11. #61
    Non-Member DaveMichaels's Avatar
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    1./ tabbed browsing is fun and a bit of a novelty. (wears off quite quickly though when you hit close by mistake and lose the whole damn 15 pages you were looking at!)
    You can set an option so Firefox pops up a dialog asking to confirm whether you really want to close a window with more than one tab open. I have it enabled myself.

  12. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by megamanXplosion
    This isn't a problem with Opera. Opera 8.0 Beta 1 comes with the "prefer pages inside window" option by default which is a dumbed-down version of their MDI interface and it gives the tabs a close button. By switching to the "Advanced Opera Workspace" the buttons will be removed and placed at the very top-right on the menu bar (along with minimize and maximize buttons) so there won't be a button on the tab. Whenever you want to close a tab in the "Advanced Opera Workspace" you simply middle-click the tab, which I think would help you a lot from closing pages by accident. And, on the rare occassion that it still happens, you can use the "Window Trash Can" and simply open the menu and select the window that you accidentally closed and it will open and appear instantly (because of Opera's memory cache.)
    Thanks for the info, I didnt know about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by megamanXplosion
    Yes but there is a difference between Firefox and Internet Explorer, the open-source license. If Firefox were ever targetted like Internet Explorer is (which would signify that it has a much bigger chunk of the market) then those problems would be fixed very quickly in comparison to Internet Explorer's closed-source model. It only takes one person to submit a fix for the problem and it can be patched within hours (if I recall correctly, one of their patches was done about 15 minutes after hearing about the problem because someone submitted a patch to them.) The open-source model is also the reason why Firefox has a better track-record at fixing problems, you don't have to pull in your whole development team in an office to fix the problem, it could be fixed without the main development team being there. I am confident that if Firefox were to be targetted like Microsoft then it would have a bunch of security problems found, but they would be terminated immediately afterward.
    You mean like this bug, which is now already known for more than 8 months and is yet to be fixed!

    Quote Originally Posted by megamanXplosion
    It's a proven fact that IE can be exploited if you configure it in a way to allow the exploitation. With a properly configured and updated Internet Explorer, adware and spyware will not be installed on your machine. I also have not encountered a single virus/spyware/adware (except tracking cookies which are not prevented by any browser as of now) on my machine due to using Internet Explorer. My parents also haven't had a single trace installed on their system (since SP2, that is, since they're computer illiterate and don't understand how bad activeX is.) I would also like to add that certain anti-virus vendors include spyware/adware checks and protection by default, like Kaspersky. It's not just an improperly-configured IE that causes spyware to be installed, it's an improperly-configured operating system.
    Each software can more or less be configured to be exploitable. But you are absolutely right, this was my point all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by megamanXplosion
    As for the google toolbar, there is something almost identical to it in Firefox. I have it installed and it tells me the PageRank of the page I'm viewing and everything, the only major difference is the people who made it
    Sure, but one cant say Firefox is having an advantage over IE in this case, if it actually the vice versa is true. In this case, IE had THIS feature long before Firefox.

  13. #63
    SitePoint Wizard megamanXplosion's Avatar
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    You mean like this bug, which is now already known for more than 8 months and is yet to be fixed!
    You are comparing a bug with a security problem which is significantly different. They described it as a security problem but losing your history information is NOT a security problem. Oh, and I've never experienced this bug despite using it for a reasonably-long time (at least a year, possibly two, I'm bad with time lol.) This would likely explain why this problem hasn't been fixed yet, not many people are having this problem and it's not a serious issue, they have more important bugs and actual security problems to fix (whenever they arise.)

  14. #64
    SitePoint Wizard samsm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hierophant
    History navigation in all browsers really sucks, I can't believe people even consider it. Come on, an alphabetical listing of every page you visited in the last 24 hours? How is that even useful?
    Well, at least in Firefox there is alphbetical listing, listing by time regardless of site, listing by most visited and breakdown by date with or without groupings by site.

    I mostly keep it on "last visited" which provides a reverse cronological list of the sites I've visited and I find that very useful in retracing my steps. I never found the Firefox default, which I think is day then alphabetical by site, useful at all.

    The firefox history search feature can instantly limit your results, but it only looks at the title, not the entire page like Google desktop, so I admit that is kind of a bummer.
    Using your unpaid time to add free content to SitePoint Pty Ltd's portfolio?

  15. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by megamanXplosion
    You are comparing a bug with a security problem which is significantly different. They described it as a security problem but losing your history information is NOT a security problem. Oh, and I've never experienced this bug despite using it for a reasonably-long time (at least a year, possibly two, I'm bad with time lol.) This would likely explain why this problem hasn't been fixed yet, not many people are having this problem and it's not a serious issue, they have more important bugs and actual security problems to fix (whenever they arise.)
    Whether a bugfix for a security issue or a bugfix for an actual bug doesnt matter. I agree that the former might have a higher priority but a browser loosing its history simply isnt usable. If you say you didnt experience this bug, then I am glad for you but I (and many others) are affected by this bug and - while I cant speak for the others - it effectively made me switch back to IE.

  16. #66
    Non-Member DaveMichaels's Avatar
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    Firefox displays my history in chronological order - last visited first.

  17. #67
    SitePoint Member ceflo's Avatar
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    I really don't care about Browser Wars and get agitated about MS.
    I care about usability - and that is, why I go with Firefox.
    Extremely useful extensions like AdBlock, Color Picker, Image Bar help me do my work faster, more efficient and (using adblock) less distracted.

    Speed Issues? Does not really make a difference - regardless what Browser I use.
    Security & Spyware? It'll be just a matter of time, when Hackers start to get interested in Firefox - and they will be as sucessful there as they have been on IE - make no fuss about it.

    Ideology doesn't have a place in my work environment - for it distracts, without benefit.

  18. #68
    SitePoint Zealot
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    Firefox's password manager is buggy, at least on my computer. I'm thinking of sticking with IE for now.

  19. #69
    Non-Member john.stone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tombot
    Firefox's password manager is buggy, at least on my computer. I'm thinking of sticking with IE for now.
    Why did you bring a 2 month old thread back?

  20. #70
    SitePoint Co-founder Matt Mickiewicz's Avatar
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    FYI: Firefox Secrets, our new book, is being released this April.
    Matt Mickiewicz - Co-Founder
    SitePoint.com - Empowering Web Developers Since 1997
    Follow me on Twitter.

  21. #71
    Level 8 Chinese guy Archbob's Avatar
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    I've been using IE and firefox for a while now, and I like IE better. Firefox messes up image rendering on alot of pages(probably because they don't comply to w3 standards). I like IE's leniant stance on w3 standards because alot of pages still look like crap to me in Firefox and alot of flash stuff simply doesn't work.

    Also I couldn't get any meta-redirection to work in firefox on my forums for some reason.

  22. #72
    SitePoint Zealot
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    Quote Originally Posted by john.stone
    Why did you bring a 2 month old thread back?

    I didn't realize the date on it. I think I was searching a keyword and this thread came up in the results.

  23. #73
    SitePoint Evangelist downloads_be's Avatar
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    The only benefit I see on FireFox is tabbed browsing
    More stable, better security .. I still need proof for that

    And what about DirectX filters?

    I really don't care about standards, I care about how it looks and how it works.

  24. #74
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    I use portable Firefox which is the best idea ever!

    Wherever I go I have my USB stick with Firefox installed. All my history, bookmarks, you name it, it's always with me.

    And best of all, no traces of my surfing left at work, or in the internet cafe.

  25. #75
    SitePoint Wizard Dangermouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlitheryImp
    And best of all, no traces of my surfing left at work, or in the internet cafe.
    Thats what you think At work im sure you go through something else before the internet, such as a router or gateway, which the administrator can see the logs of.


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