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  1. #26
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer F.
    You switch to FireFox, because:





    1. You don't want adware, spyware, malware, or whatever, installed on your computer without your consent.
    2. You want a faster browser.
    3. You want a more lightweight browser.
    4. You want tabbed browsing.
    5. You want good security settings.
    6. You want more privacy options.
    7. You want more features.
    8. You want extensions.
    And so on...
    The only real benefit here is tabbed browsing. I have been on the Internet since 1993, most of that time using IE and have never had any adware, spyware, malware or whatever on my computer.

    Firefox isn't any faster in IE in my experience.

    Firefox and the Gecko engine is not any smaller than IE and its engine once installed.

    Good Security is more about the user than the software involved.

    Firefox doesn't support P2P privacy policies, IE does.

    Besides Tabbed Browsing and the Download Manager, what features are there in Firefox that aren't in IE by default? MSN Explorer does have a download manager, that I like better than IE's and its popup blocker is the coolest on on the Internet.

    Internet Explorer has supported extensions since IE 4 was released. Nothing really new.
    ---------------

    Personally, I use Firefox for work. Its tabbed browsing implementation is okay but misses a lot of features out of the box. I mean if you open a page in a Tab, it shouldn't allow the entire browser to be resized. Plus, there is none of the other functionality associated with MDI document containers such as cascading or tiling windows. Not to mention the fact that you can't search among various open tabs, just the currently selected one. Nor can you easily reorganize your existing tabs. People shouldn't have to rely on third party extensions for basic functionality. Other than that, I find it rather run of the mill as far as browsers go. It doesn't thrill me. On the plus side, they have a rather cool Red Panda mascot.


    For Fun, I use MSN Explorer 9.0. Doesn't have tabs but like I said, it has the coolest popup blocker, plus it has a great interface with a dockable control panel that gives me up to date information on email, IMs and more. The fact that they have Bejeweled in their games section is an added treat and it doesn't work in Firefox.
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  2. #27
    SitePoint Wizard megamanXplosion's Avatar
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    Firefox isn't any faster in IE in my experience.
    It is, but very rarely. Internet Explorer has problems caching compressed pages (using gzip, for example.) When IE encounters compressed pages it will save the cached file but it either gets corrupted or just never used because it always re-downloads from the server (and this bug causes it to have problems caching CSS as well.) I remember this problem because one of my old sites used gzip and advanced caching techniques to improve performance but I had to do some severe browser-sniffing to exclude IE from getting gzipped pages so that it would cache, that was VERY annoying! Firefox doesn't have this problem and will naturally perform better on those kinds of sites. That's about the only instance where I can say that Firefox is faster as a fact. Opera is slightly faster than Firefox because it also doesn't have the caching problem and plus it uses memory caching for instant back/forward and faster page pull-ups (and you can improve on it further by moving the disk-cache to a RAM drive, for example.)

    Firefox and the Gecko engine is not any smaller than IE and its engine once installed.
    Agreed. Most of the IE download is simply extra components for windows for ESH (encase **** happens) scenarios and those are only downloaded if it's necessary. Internet Explorer and Firefox are nearly the same size.

    Good Security is more about the user than the software involved.
    Agreed; however, the software involved does help.

  3. #28
    Non-Member DaveMichaels's Avatar
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    I've had plenty of adware installed using IE. None using Firefox. I feel using IE is like playing with fire.

  4. #29
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    I am glad that this thread has given some folks chance to air thier views and by way of reply here is a list of my own....

    1./ tabbed browsing is fun and a bit of a novelty. (wears off quite quickly though when you hit close by mistake and lose the whole damn 15 pages you were looking at!)

    2./ tabbed browsing is useful when surfing porn at work! (yes we all do it!)

    3./ if you get vast amounts of spyware and adware installed, I suggest you rethink your surfing habits or get your hand in your pocket and get some removal tools.

    4./ I get regular updates from Microsoft for IE 6 (whether I want them or not).

    5./ the reason IE is seen to be full of holes is because the hacking/virus/yoofs of this world have made it their mission to pull microsoft down. If someone targetted FF I feel sure that there would be security violations left, right and centre.

    6./ If tabbed browsing is the only thing FF has over IE, I will stick to IE thank you!

    7./ I personally see no difference in speed between any browser I have used/ (I use broadband at work and dial-up at home).

    SpikeZ
    Mike Swiffin - Community Team Advisor
    Only a woman can read between the lines of a one word answer.....

  5. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveMichaels
    I've had plenty of adware installed using IE. None using Firefox. I feel using IE is like playing with fire.
    First of all this is an ActiveX issue and with the proper settings (which are default since SP2) it cant happen. Furthermore it certainly also depends on the kind of sites you are visiting .

    I never had problem of this category with IE.

  6. #31
    Entrepreneur Spencer F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hierophant
    The only real benefit here is tabbed browsing. I have been on the Internet since 1993, most of that time using IE and have never had any adware, spyware, malware or whatever on my computer.
    Just because that's true for you doesn't mean that's true for everyone else. It is a proven fact that IE installs more adware, spyware, and so forth, onto your computer.

    Firefox isn't any faster in IE in my experience.
    Maybe. But I've noticed marked improvement on more than a handful of web sites. So even if it's not faster across the board and only just as fast, there are still some web sites where it is faster. At least for me.

    Good Security is more about the user than the software involved.
    I couldn't agree more, but why not have the user start with somewhat of an advantage having FireFox installed over IE?

    Firefox doesn't support P2P privacy policies, IE does.
    I don't use this, so I cannot comment on it.

    Besides Tabbed Browsing and the Download Manager, what features are there in Firefox that aren't in IE by default? MSN Explorer does have a download manager, that I like better than IE's and its popup blocker is the coolest on on the Internet.
    Maybe not too many more by default, but there are thousands of AWESOME extensions for FireFox. Right now I'm using a great tool that displays PageRank and Alexa rank on every site I go to, a tool that links to my music player of choice so that I can control my music from FireFox, and one that gives me a Google Toolbar equivalent. Three great extensions out of thousands.

    Internet Explorer has supported extensions since IE 4 was released. Nothing really new.
    But are they any good? No.
    + Carbonmade - Easiest way to display and manage your portfolio.
    + Burstoid - Design magazine.

    + twitter/spencerfry

  7. #32
    Non-Member DaveMichaels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drzoid
    Furthermore it certainly also depends on the kind of sites you are visiting .

    I never had problem of this category with IE.
    Pretty lame if your browser/OS allows ANY site to compromise your computer. IE - burn me once, shame on you; burn me twice, shame on me. I don't trust MS for security.

  8. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer F.
    It is a proven fact that IE installs more adware, spyware, and so forth, onto your computer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer F.
    Just because that's true for you doesn't mean that's true for everyone else.
    As I said, I NEVER got adware through IE. It solely depends on your ActiveX settings and the sites you are visiting.


    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer F.
    Maybe. But I've noticed marked improvement on more than a handful of web sites. So even if it's not faster across the board and only just as fast, there are still some web sites where it is faster. At least for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer F.
    Just because that's true for you doesn't mean that's true for everyone else.
    I didnt notice any difference at all. Firefox is certainly not slower, but also not faster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer F.
    I couldn't agree more, but why not have the user start with somewhat of an advantage having FireFox installed over IE?
    Which would be exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer F.
    Maybe not too many more by default, but there are thousands of AWESOME extensions for FireFox. Right now I'm using a great tool that displays PageRank and Alexa rank on every site I go to, a tool that links to my music player of choice so that I can control my music from FireFox, and one that gives me a Google Toolbar equivalent. Three great extensions out of thousands.

    But are they any good? No.
    You are kidding, arent you? Whether they are any good? Beside the music player ALL these features are available via the Google Toolbar. Which is btw only available for IE .

  9. #34
    SitePoint Wizard samsm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikeZ
    1./ tabbed browsing is fun and a bit of a novelty. (wears off quite quickly though when you hit close by mistake and lose the whole damn 15 pages you were looking at!)
    You might turn on "warn when closing multiple tabs" if you have a problem with that. Also, "history" can help you find pages you've already visited.
    Using your unpaid time to add free content to SitePoint Pty Ltd's portfolio?

  10. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveMichaels
    Pretty lame if your browser/OS allows ANY site to compromise your computer. IE - burn me once, shame on you; burn me twice, shame on me. I don't trust MS for security.
    What does it have to do with the OS????????

    And concerning the browser, I admit that ActiveX is not the most secure technology, especially in context with an open network like the Internet. HOWEVER (especially since SP2) its security settings are strict enough not to download unsigned controls without prior permission.

    Can you name the sites which installed this software via a backdoor?

  11. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by samsm
    Also, "history" can help you find pages you've already visited.
    If it wouldnt get lost all once in a while .

  12. #37
    Non-Member DaveMichaels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drzoid
    What does it have to do with the OS????????
    Uh, SP2?

  13. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveMichaels
    Uh, SP2?
    Also covers applications coming with the operating system.

  14. #39
    Non-Member DaveMichaels's Avatar
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    Well, you can't update IE without updating the OS. And MS won't update their older OS's, nor offer patches for IE only. I don't trust MS on more than just security.

  15. #40
    SitePoint Wizard mark_W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nintendo
    Faster my *BEEP*. You know a browser su*** when you have to change settings just to TRY to keep it from being as slow as a slug.

    The only reason I use it is because Google is too stupid to make a toolbar with PR for da Macintosh.
    It is faster, IMO!

  16. #41
    Non-Member DaveMichaels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hierophant
    Firefox doesn't support P2P privacy policies, IE does.
    P2P policies? Firefox isn't a P2P app.

  17. #42
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samsm
    You might turn on "warn when closing multiple tabs" if you have a problem with that. Also, "history" can help you find pages you've already visited.
    History navigation in all browsers really sucks, I can't believe people even consider it. Come on, an alphabetical listing of every page you visited in the last 24 hours? How is that even useful?
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  18. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveMichaels
    Well, you can't update IE without updating the OS. And MS won't update their older OS's, nor offer patches for IE only. I don't trust MS on more than just security.
    And whats your point?

  19. #44
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveMichaels
    P2P policies? Firefox isn't a P2P app.
    Sorry, spelling error. Meant P3P which is a standard for privacy promoted by the W3C...

    http://www.w3c.org/P3P/

    If you like Firefox, then use it. I don't see it as an overly special or great application. A lot of people promote it as world changing, especially in this forum, and it really brings nothing new to the world wide web.
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  20. #45
    He's No Good To Me Dead silver trophybronze trophy stymiee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hierophant
    Sorry, spelling error. Meant P3P which is a standard for privacy promoted by the W3C...

    http://www.w3c.org/P3P/
    Wayne, how important do you consider P3P to be? You're the first person in years I've even heard mention it. (BTW, I use P3P on all of my websites).

  21. #46
    Non-Member DaveMichaels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drzoid
    And whats your point?
    That's fine with you? Un-f'ing-believable.

  22. #47
    Non-Member DaveMichaels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hierophant
    Sorry, spelling error. Meant P3P which is a standard for privacy promoted by the W3C...

    http://www.w3c.org/P3P/

    If you like Firefox, then use it. I don't see it as an overly special or great application. A lot of people promote it as world changing, especially in this forum, and it really brings nothing new to the world wide web.
    Ah, I'm not really familiar with P3P. Where does Firefox come up short compared to IE?

  23. #48
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    I use it all the time in IE. One of the tools available to keep spyware off your machine, probably why I have never gotten any since I use all tools available to me. Since I am more likely to visit "questionable" sites in IE due to its superior multimedia capabilities, determining where the content on the page comes from is important. I also have found that IE is better at blocking popups than Firefox is and MSN Explorer 9.0 has the best implementation of this feature. Probably because of the P3P policies and security settings I have.

    Maybe if Firefox could support signed ActiveX (based on the user's options) as well as proper embedding of multimedia in the page, then it might have more going for it. So far, no one has shown one feature of Firefox that isn't available in IE. Heck, you can even use tabbed browsing if you use an IE shell like Avantbrowser. Or you can completely write your own browser shell since the entire API is documented.

    Yeah, people here will mention standards compliance. As an Internet User, I don't care about that. It isn't relevant, either the page works properly or it doesn't. I don't care how it is coded. As a developer, I see it moderately important but I don't care if my site is perfect to the last pixel or whether a box is a table or div, as long as it works and I make sales.

    Someone mentioned that IE's extensions were not as cool as Firefox's. I haven't seen any "cool" firefox extensions either. Some interesting ones but maintaining them is a hassle so why bother? Only have two installed myself, a color picker and the web developer toolbar. Nothing else is really beneficial to me. Don't need any toolbars or extensions in IE since it is just used for browsing. However when I cared what Google thought, I had their toolbar installed (the basis of the firefox extension by the way). Tried different themes, skins and widgets on both and invariably they cause problems.

    I see no one has really talked about the problems with Firefox either like the lack of an ability to add sites to a trusted level so that the clipboard is accessible properly, or the fact that it forgets how to auto-refresh pages every few thousand page loads, or how javascript just decides to stop working. All should be clearly bugs but have existed in the last 10 versions, and the lack of a clipboard is considered a feature. Go figure.
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  24. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveMichaels
    That's fine with you? Un-f'ing-believable.
    I asked what your point is. But this is becoming off-topic now.

  25. #50
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveMichaels
    Ah, I'm not really familiar with P3P. Where does Firefox come up short compared to IE?
    Firefox, the standards compliant browser, doesn't even support it.

    For a 1.0 version, Firefox is okay. Just feel more should be in it after almost 4 years of development on Gecko and this new interface. I do use Firefox everyday for work but once I am done working for the day, I start up MSN Explorer 9.0 and have fun on the Internet.
    Wayne Luke
    ------------



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