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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katasdf
    Pfff. Easiest question ever.
    Themes and Extensions

    Nothing is better than that.
    I don't know if that's an extension that crack's my Firefox and closes all the FF windows at once making me reopen = annoying, but appart from that, Firefox handles SSL connections much smarter, unlike IE that reloads the certificare for every single image on the page. That is annoying.

  2. #52
    SitePoint Enthusiast nzgfxguru's Avatar
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    It is meant for real drziod.

    I abhor companies that have a monopoly over others and force feed their products into every area of PC life. MS is unfortunately a necessity for almost all PC users, it is bundled with most new PC's purchased and with it comes IE. People should be able to have more choice but unfortunately cannot due to their own limitations in knowledge of technology.

    1. Security: IE installed out of the box is instantly open to a vast array of hacking and virus exploits. So is Firefox, but to a much lesser extent. You say you have never had issues with IE's security drziod, but is this because you are internet wise and disable Active X controls, use a good firewall, keep up to date with virus definitions? New users to PC's are not internet savvy like you and Firefox has more superior security than IE right out of the box.

    2. Ease of use: Firefox is so incredibly easy to use and is a lot simpler to upgrade than IE. So much so that my Mother who is technologically challenged but used IE for 7 years has switched to Firefox and vows to never go back to IE. Our 12,10 and 5 year old daughters also prefer to use Firefox and find it much easier to use than IE which is force fed upon them at school. In fact, ALL of our friends and family are now using Firefox. And our children wish they could use Firefox at school.

    3.Scalability: The extensions available in Firefox have made browsing the web for web designers, such as myself, much easier. The web developer extension in Firefox is a godsend for web designers. I also have another dozen extensions which vastly overshadow anything in IE. The ability to easily add whatever you want to Firefox, or not, simply blows IE away.

    4. Free: Firefox is free, it does not come bundled with other software that you have paid for. I personally despise bundled software and never install it, but IE self installs and sets itself as default with all Windows software.

    My background: I had been using IE for 6 years until a webdesign friend introduced me to Firefox, she said "just try it for a week". Up until that point I was using IE as default from necessity. I also swore black and blue that I would never change browsers, because IE was what "I knew well and grew up with". I was using Mozilla, Netscape, Safari and Opera for cross browser compatibility but swore to never change. I have now also trialled Netscape, Mozilla, Safari and Opera for a week each but none are as good as Firefox.

    I will never use IE again unless I am testing browser compatibility or when some sites only work properly in IE (lol, the webdesigners are limiting their audience).

    If people had a choice when they got their new PC's and that choice was Firefox or IE, I very much doubt they would ever bother with even trying IE.
    Julian Jackson
    Circle Design - Think outside the square.
    Knitnak, for fabulous handmade knitwear.

  3. #53
    Non-Member sketchynetwk's Avatar
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    IE has a lot of unruely little addons that are basicly just rubish & junk. Take Hotbar for example, it doesnt contain spyware but people can mane spyware download into hotbar & boom, ur stuffed. Firefox however is more for pro's, IE...for the family guy

  4. #54
    SitePoint Evangelist j0n's Avatar
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    It's better.

  5. #55
    Non-Member sketchynetwk's Avatar
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    What is? lol sorry, i dont understand what you mean.

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by sketchynetwk
    IE has a lot of unruely little addons that are basicly just rubish & junk. Take Hotbar for example, it doesnt contain spyware but people can mane spyware download into hotbar & boom, ur stuffed. Firefox however is more for pro's, IE...for the family guy
    Thats not IE's fault. You can write malicious and unnecessary extensions for Firefox as well. So you cant count that in.

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by nzgfxguru
    It is meant for real drziod.

    I abhor companies that have a monopoly over others and force feed their products into every area of PC life. MS is unfortunately a necessity for almost all PC users, it is bundled with most new PC's purchased and with it comes IE. People should be able to have more choice but unfortunately cannot due to their own limitations in knowledge of technology.
    Well, this is rather disappointing, because I cant really take a statment like
    Use Firefox because it's non-microsoft therefore from that definition it must be better than IE.
    seriously. Microsoft has certainly many quirks with their software and there are/were also many (unnecessary) bugs but simply saying "it is bad BECAUSE it comes from Microsoft" is just plainly absurd and silly

    Furthermore I have to object to the monopoly accusation, because Microsoft has certainly a strong position in the software business but the definition of monopoly is something completely different. If Microsoft would really have a monopoly and could rule which software is allowed and which is not, all the other operating and office and mail and and and systems couldnt and wouldnt be sold. In the end, its up to everyone to decide which system he or she wants to use.

    Quote Originally Posted by nzgfxguru
    1. Security: IE installed out of the box is instantly open to a vast array of hacking and virus exploits. So is Firefox, but to a much lesser extent. You say you have never had issues with IE's security drziod, but is this because you are internet wise and disable Active X controls, use a good firewall, keep up to date with virus definitions? New users to PC's are not internet savvy like you and Firefox has more superior security than IE right out of the box.
    This might be shocking for you , but I dont run a firewall nor do I even have installed a virus scanner. I agree that ActiveX is a major security issue with IE, but Microsoft improved in this area a lot in the last months and especially since SP2 - where most ActiveX settings are disabled or secured - it became much more secure in this context.

    Quote Originally Posted by nzgfxguru
    2. Ease of use: Firefox is so incredibly easy to use and is a lot simpler to upgrade than IE. So much so that my Mother who is technologically challenged but used IE for 7 years has switched to Firefox and vows to never go back to IE. Our 12,10 and 5 year old daughters also prefer to use Firefox and find it much easier to use than IE which is force fed upon them at school. In fact, ALL of our friends and family are now using Firefox. And our children wish they could use Firefox at school.
    I admit that Firefox has many nice features over IE, however especially this is something most novice users will not notice from the start. Looking at the basics, IE and Firefox are just too similar to be able to spot a difference. But if you can provide examples, why your mother and daughters prefer Firefox we can certainly discuss that .

    Quote Originally Posted by nzgfxguru
    3.Scalability: The extensions available in Firefox have made browsing the web for web designers, such as myself, much easier. The web developer extension in Firefox is a godsend for web designers. I also have another dozen extensions which vastly overshadow anything in IE. The ability to easily add whatever you want to Firefox, or not, simply blows IE away.
    Extensions is something IE supports as well. Take a look at the Google Toolbar for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by nzgfxguru
    4. Free: Firefox is free, it does not come bundled with other software that you have paid for. I personally despise bundled software and never install it, but IE self installs and sets itself as default with all Windows software.
    Well, this statement makes me actually wonder, because IE is free as well. Whether its bundled or not is another topic but neither forces you to pay nor to use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by nzgfxguru
    My background: I had been using IE for 6 years until a webdesign friend introduced me to Firefox, she said "just try it for a week". Up until that point I was using IE as default from necessity. I also swore black and blue that I would never change browsers, because IE was what "I knew well and grew up with". I was using Mozilla, Netscape, Safari and Opera for cross browser compatibility but swore to never change. I have now also trialled Netscape, Mozilla, Safari and Opera for a week each but none are as good as Firefox.

    I will never use IE again unless I am testing browser compatibility or when some sites only work properly in IE (lol, the webdesigners are limiting their audience).

    If people had a choice when they got their new PC's and that choice was Firefox or IE, I very much doubt they would ever bother with even trying IE.
    When I did my first steps into the net I had Netscape 4 with me and really refused to switch to IE for a long time. Eventuelly with IE 5 I switched because Netscape was just too obsolete at this point. I used IE 6 up until a few weeks ago when I switched to Firefox, which actually IS a good browser. However - as I mentioned - I had to switch back to IE again, because the Mozilla Foundation is doing what Microsoft was always accused of - ignoring and not fixing known bugs.

    Dont get me wrong, I do like Firefox too, but I am missing in your posting the actual arguments why IE shall be worse than Firefox.

  8. #58
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    IE didn't gain popularity on it's own. It was packaged with Windows.
    If IE didn't gain popularity, users would have continued to use Netscape, even after IE became bundled with Windows.

    Just because MS has oh-so-conveniently packaged it with Windows, and hasn't released a proper upgrade for 3 years does not make it the standard.
    The only standards worth a damn are the ones that are based on what the majority of an object's usage is. A "standard" used by almost everyone has value. One that a bunch of people have claimed is the supposed 'standard' has no value.
    I've twice been pop-uped,
    Three times more,
    Never again shall they pop,
    And pity those it makes poor.

  9. #59
    SitePoint Enthusiast nzgfxguru's Avatar
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    Dr Zoid, just a wee bit of info about MSIE's abilities with .png's:

    # Internet Explorer [Microsoft] (Win32, Solaris/X, HP-UX/X) - version 4.0b1 and later; read-only; broken alpha support in Windows versions 4.0b2 through 6.0;1 gamma support, apparently slightly broken;2 progressive display of interlaced images (replicating method); broken OBJECT support;3 MNG support via Jason Summers' MNG4IE ActiveX control; version 4.0 crashes on large PNG chunks;4 version 5.0 prints palette images with black (or dark gray) backgrounds under Win98, sometimes with radically altered colors;5 fails to display PNG images used as CSS backgrounds;6 fails to display PNG images of 4097 or 4098 bytes in size; sometimes completely loses ability to display PNGs (see FAQ page for various fixes); freeware. (Note that Microsoft claims version 4.0 ``does not include the functionality to view .png files,'' which presumably refers to its inability to display stand-alone PNGs;7 this is partly fixed in 5.0.8 Note also that the Windows 3.x version of IE has no PNG support at all, but the IE-based AOL browser for Windows does, at least from version 4.0 onward. Both the AOL Browser and the MSN Browser are IE-based and share the same features and bugs.) Bugs and other feedback--such as requests for full alpha support--can be reported on the MSIE 6.0 beta feedback page (which requires registration but no cookies) and/or the Microsoft product feedback page (which doesn't appear to require any personal information). Also check out Aaron Adams' petition for full PNG support in MSIE/Windows .

    1. simple transparency only, with bad threshold for transparency vs. opacity, and only for palette images; completely fails to render some transparent palette images (e.g., bottom four here], apparently due to nearly-but-not-quite-opaque alpha values; non-palette images are rendered fully opaque against a light gray background; 32-bit alpha transparency (but not palette alpha) supported in version 5.5 and later if and only if HTML content is rewritten to use Microsoft-specific DirectX extensions to CSS (See also this extended discussion, Bob Osola's JavaScript/conditional comment solution, Sean Foy's PNGHack ASP.Net custom controls, Jorge Nerín's quick summary, and Ranjan's ``pure'' CSS solution. Further caveats for DirectX approach: if the PNG image's width and height attributes are missing, the width and height of the placeholder image will be used instead; if the placeholder image is missing, the browser's stock ``missing-image'' icon will be placed over the PNG.)
    2. on sRGB (display-gamma 2.2) systems when both sRGB and gAMA chunks are present, uses display-system gamma of approximately 1.93 (i.e., colors appear slightly dark); workaround for image authors is to include only sRGB (not both sRGB and gAMA as recommended by PNG spec)
    3. only if "Run ActiveX controls and plug-ins" security preference enabled; adds unnecessary scrollbars; version 4.0 renders all OBJECTs in nested set, not just outermost
    4. especially those created with the "Save" function in Macromedia Fireworks--use "Export" for final PNGs
    5. reportedly fixed in version 5.5, and doesn't affect NT or Win2k
    6. as reported by a W3C member; another user reports that version 5.0 and later does support this
    7. i.e., those that are simply referenced via links or opened from disk--it can view ones that are inlined on an HTML page via IMG tags just fine, and a registry hack is reported to fix the stand-alone problem
    8. i.e., it works on some systems but not on others, and it's not directly related to running NT vs. Windows 9x but may have something to do with other PNG-capable viewers being installed

    Mozilla has had the ability to display .png's since the year 2000.
    Julian Jackson
    Circle Design - Think outside the square.
    Knitnak, for fabulous handmade knitwear.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by nzgfxguru
    Mozilla has had the ability to display .png's since the year 2000.
    You are absolutely right, the Internet Explorer had (and still has) some quirks with full PNG support. But, I am sorry, whats exactly your point? A lousy PNG implementation might not be the most ideal thing, but I guess its (for most people) the least important feature, not something to judge upon the entire browser after all. Again, I dont see your previous statements backed up by this.

  11. #61
    Non-Member Egor's Avatar
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    Hell, even IE 5.2 for mac has support for .PNG. I don't know what the Microsoft developers are thinking. They focus so much on competing that they forget about making software.

  12. #62
    SitePoint Wizard mark_W's Avatar
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    Maybe it would be good if they forgot about making software all together!! ha ha! J/k

    - Mark

  13. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by mstwntd
    Hell, even IE 5.2 for mac has support for .PNG. I don't know what the Microsoft developers are thinking. They focus so much on competing that they forget about making software.
    Quote Originally Posted by drzoid
    Internet Explorer had (and still has) some quirks with full PNG support.
    IE supports PNG, just not its complete featureset (alpha-blending, ....)

    Quote Originally Posted by mark_W
    Maybe it would be good if they forgot about making software all together!! ha ha! J/k

    - Mark

  14. #64
    SitePoint Wizard mark_W's Avatar
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    Ah, Im just having a laugh DrZoid, I think people are way to harsh on Microsoft some times. Im just having fun.



    - Mark

  15. #65
    Non-Member Egor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drzoid
    IE supports PNG, just not its complete featureset (alpha-blending, ....)


    I am aware of that. But alpha-transparency is the only real advantage of this format.

    There are workarounds and fixes for alpha-transparency, but that's no excuse.

    The scariest thought is, even when IE 7 will take over IE6 (Another 5 years or so...?), we could be in for a few new surprises. They've made stuff-ups like this so far, so who's to say things will be any better.

  16. #66
    Non-Member demosfen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oerdec
    in your company?
    Yes, it's my company. I didn't know it would develop into full time job when I started it, so I picked up a (free) piece of crap instead of buying a real web server. On the other hand, I didn't have money to buy anything at the time anyway.

  17. #67
    Non-Member demosfen's Avatar
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    The question was about the shortest answer to use FF over IE, I think it's tabs. Only 4 letters, hard to beat that

  18. #68
    oh hello. JoshU's Avatar
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    three words:
    viruses
    tabbed browsing
    Josh Ulfers

  19. #69
    monitormensch oerdec's Avatar
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    thanks for all the replies!

    I finished my article on my weblog. Itīs in German.

    I wrote about this benefits:

    - simple usage (compare IEīs internet options with FFīs preferences)
    - tabbed browsing
    - security
    - extensions
    - themes (although I donīt care)
    - cost free (IE is not free because itīs integrated in Windows)
    - Update function (Windows Update just fixes security holes. FF Update is for extensions too)
    - no adds like in Opera

    oerdec//

  20. #70
    SitePoint Author silver trophybronze trophy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scumbag
    Say what you want about Mozilla and/or Firefox, but they remain browsers for the "nerd"* factions of society, not the "normal" or "non-technical" crowd.
    Why?

    Mozilla/FF are at least as easy to use as IE, and they're a heck of a lot easier to configure (IMHO). They're safer out of the box, which is a very good thing for non-techie users whose first thought may not be "I need to configure my security settings before I start surfing."
    Birnam wood is come to Dunsinane

  21. #71
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    I think the best reason is: Security.

    Tabbed browsing, extensions, popup-blocker and the like can actually be added to IE. But it will still be as insecure...
    Simon Pieters

  22. #72
    Entrepreneur Spencer F.'s Avatar
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    "Web Standards."
    + Carbonmade - Easiest way to display and manage your portfolio.
    + Burstoid - Design magazine.

    + twitter/spencerfry

  23. #73
    SitePoint Wizard jax502's Avatar
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    Cooler
    jax502

  24. #74
    monitormensch oerdec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer F.
    "Web Standards."
    Normal users donīt have an idea of standards. But I mentioned it anyway in my weblog article. For me as a developer itīs good that as many users as possible use compliant browsers. It makes my job easier

  25. #75
    bronze trophy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer F.
    "Web Standards."
    Quote Originally Posted by oerdec
    I want to write a little article about this on my website. Itīs for non-technical users. They donīt know about web standards and stuff. There are a lot of ressources but nothing for a normal surfer.
    Otherwise,
    Simon Pieters


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