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  1. #26
    monitormensch oerdec's Avatar
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    Scumbag,

    I donīt want to promote firefox. I just want to show people (my friends) there is an alternative to IE. There are good reasons but Iīm not able to communicate them.

    In my opinion firefox isnīt just for nerds. Downloading and installing just takes a few clicks.

    Normal users donīt know much about technical backgrounds and security stuff but they are not stupid.

  2. #27
    Non-Member demosfen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oerdec
    Normal users donīt know much about technical backgrounds and security stuff but they are not stupid.
    It doesn't always apply. I am pretty sure each of us knows a few stupid ones!
    Do you want some examples, or what?

  3. #28
    monitormensch oerdec's Avatar
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    ok, if your are talking about users like this , your are right.

  4. #29
    Non-Member Egor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scumbag
    Then you prolly shouldn't be writing an article promoting a non-IE browser. Say what you want about Mozilla and/or Firefox, but they remain browsers for the "nerd"* factions of society, not the "normal" or "non-technical" crowd.
    For now.

    If you don't promote a product, how do you expect it would gain popularity?

    IE is an outdated, absolutely rubbish browser. People need to know that. It's keeping us web designers from applying the techniques that are supported in all other modern browsers. It's keeping surefers from getting the best possible experience they can from the web.

    And what's so nerdy about Firefox anyway? If anything, it's a hell of a lot easier to use. And please don't confuse the "non-technical" with the "don't know about it" crowd. There's nothing technical about choosing the best browser available. If people know of the existance of a better browser they will go for it.

  5. #30
    Non-Member demosfen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oerdec
    ok, if your are talking about users like this , your are right.
    Off Topic:

    Actually that's an example of normal visitors but stupid web site owner, if you ask me. It does matter to the buyer when the merchandise will be delivered, rather than when it will be shipped. I'd be asking the same question!

  6. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh_
    Alot of people use the arguement that they've never had any problems with IE.

    But I don't think they realize how awesome and helpful tabbed browsing is. It makes things so much easier.
    Yeah, and I dont see anything wrong with this argument. In fact I NEVER had a single problem with IE. As I mentioned I only switched because Firefox is out-of-the-box (!) more secure than IE and I neither want to expose myself to potential problems nor want to be on the continuously hunt for new patches.

    Tabbed browsing is certainly a convenient thing, but it would never be the single reason why I change my browser. After all it doesnt really matter whether I click the tabs in the browser or the tabs in the taskbar.

  7. #32
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy redemption's Avatar
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    A few arguments for tabbed browsing against clicking taskbar items (as in IE): it clutters up whatever context-switching utility you have (Alt-Tab in Windows, Expose in Mac OS X). It also makes it hard to select the window you want if you have too many windows open. If you use a tabbed browser, your browser appears as a single window (or a few depending on your browsing habits), and doesn't compete for space and attention in the context-switching process (I use Alt-tab a lot). Besides, all Web browser instances are for a logical unit so keeping them in a Window make sense (to me).

    Disclaimer: I prefer tabbed browsing because it suits my browsing habits, not because I'm some Firefox geek (which I am) who supports tabbed browsing because it is in Firefox. Besides, Firefox didn't invent tabbed browsing (NetCaptor probably did).

  8. #33
    Web Design Addict
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    When using IE my computer was full of spyware...nothing with Firefox. Coencidence? Maybe...Browser? Probably.
    Deron Sizemore
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    My Sites: LogoGala | Golf Ledger (coming soon)
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  9. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by redemption
    A few arguments for tabbed browsing against clicking taskbar items (as in IE): it clutters up whatever context-switching utility you have (Alt-Tab in Windows, Expose in Mac OS X). It also makes it hard to select the window you want if you have too many windows open. If you use a tabbed browser, your browser appears as a single window (or a few depending on your browsing habits), and doesn't compete for space and attention in the context-switching process (I use Alt-tab a lot). Besides, all Web browser instances are for a logical unit so keeping them in a Window make sense (to me).

    Disclaimer: I prefer tabbed browsing because it suits my browsing habits, not because I'm some Firefox geek (which I am) who supports tabbed browsing because it is in Firefox. Besides, Firefox didn't invent tabbed browsing (NetCaptor probably did).
    I am not saying tabbed browsing is bad or useless, I just dont see it as best inventioned since sliced bread . With extensions like - as you mentioned - NetCaptor or MyIE2 you can add tabbed browsing to the IE engine as well. Of course I would undersign the request to add it to IE as well, but personally it would never have been a reason to switch the browser.

  10. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by deronsizemore
    When using IE my computer was full of spyware...nothing with Firefox. Coencidence? Maybe...Browser? Probably.
    Spyware is usually introduced by applications such Kazaa or similar. There are certainly some security leaks within IE but to my knowledge they do not allow any kind of remote installation of software packages. Of course someone can download unconsciously Spyware or other "malicious" applications by visiting some "obscure"/"illegal" sites and running their unsigned ActiveX controls which will then have full control over your machine and can do everything every usual application can do. ActiveX is not a bad technology by definition but they way IE supports and allows its distribution can be very dangerous and hence I had it always disabled.

  11. #36
    Colonel Jack O'neill Josh_'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drzoid
    Yeah, and I dont see anything wrong with this argument. In fact I NEVER had a single problem with IE. As I mentioned I only switched because Firefox is out-of-the-box (!) more secure than IE and I neither want to expose myself to potential problems nor want to be on the continuously hunt for new patches.

    Tabbed browsing is certainly a convenient thing, but it would never be the single reason why I change my browser. After all it doesnt really matter whether I click the tabs in the browser or the tabs in the taskbar.
    That would not be possible for me. For somebody using a smaller resolution it just can't be done. Especially i fyou have 4 or 5 other programs open.

    I tend to have 10 or so tabs open at any time.

  12. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Josh_
    That would not be possible for me. For somebody using a smaller resolution it just can't be done. Especially i fyou have 4 or 5 other programs open.

    I tend to have 10 or so tabs open at any time.
    How did you do it before tabbed browsing became popular?

  13. #38
    Colonel Jack O'neill Josh_'s Avatar
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    I didn't have the need to have 10 or 15 tabs open at once

  14. #39
    SitePoint Member
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    If you don't promote a product, how do you expect it would gain popularity?
    If a program is good enough, it will gain popularity on its own. There's little reason to promote Firefox to the normal user, simply because he/she has IE on basically every PC he/she will ever be on.

    IE is an outdated, absolutely rubbish browser. People need to know that.
    People basically need to know how the standard internet browser works.

    It's keeping us web designers from applying the techniques that are supported in all other modern browsers.
    Me, I'd code for what people have, not what fringe browsers can do.
    I've twice been pop-uped,
    Three times more,
    Never again shall they pop,
    And pity those it makes poor.

  15. #40
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scumbag
    Then you prolly shouldn't be writing an article promoting a non-IE browser. Say what you want about Mozilla and/or Firefox, but they remain browsers for the "nerd"* factions of society, not the "normal" or "non-technical" crowd.

    * No offense intended.
    Not true. My (non technical) mother uses it (and I didn't install it - was surprised to see it!). Several friends have asked to have it installed (purely because they loved the way I don't get pop-ups - again non-techie). BBC world had a feature promoting its use while I was in Vietnam (are all BBC watchers nerds?).

    Anyhoo, my reason: standards.
    ~The Artist Latterly Known as Crazy Hamster~
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    Currently delving into Django, GIT & CentOS

  16. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by drzoid
    I am seriously considering to switch to IE back again as I am more than just bothered by this history bug.
    So! I have had enough and switched back to IE. Just lost again my entire history.

  17. #42
    SitePoint Enthusiast nzgfxguru's Avatar
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    The answer to the original poster is this:

    Use Firefox because it's non-microsoft therefore from that definition it must be better than IE.

  18. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by nzgfxguru
    The answer to the original poster is this:

    Use Firefox because it's non-microsoft therefore from that definition it must be better than IE.
    You are kidding arent you?

  19. #44
    Non-Member Egor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scumbag
    If a program is good enough, it will gain popularity on its own. There's little reason to promote Firefox to the normal user, simply because he/she has IE on basically every PC he/she will ever be on.
    IE didn't gain popularity on it's own. It was packaged with Windows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scumbag
    People basically need to know how the standard internet browser works.
    There's nothing standard about it. Just because MS has oh-so-conveniently packaged it with Windows, and hasn't released a proper upgrade for 3 years does not make it the standard. Sure OSX ships with the Safari browser, but it's standards-compliant, secure, and has tabbed-browsing. IE is sub-standard more like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scumbag
    Me, I'd code for what people have, not what fringe browsers can do.
    That wasn't my point. So do I, and most people obviously. Doesn't change the fact that it's slowing web designers down. Specifically in the CSS sector.

  20. #45
    Non-Member Egor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drzoid
    You are kidding arent you?
    You like Microsoft?

  21. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by mstwntd
    You like Microsoft?
    Not more than the Mozilla or Apache Foundation or any other software company. Why? Because I consider a statement like
    because it's non-microsoft therefore from that definition it must be better than IE
    as absurd (if its meant for real)?

    At least IE never ever caused me troubles like constantly deleting my history as Firefox does.

  22. #47
    Web Design Addict
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    does anyone else have trouble with deleting history files from Mozilla? I've never had any....didn't know if it was an isolated case or not.
    Deron Sizemore
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    My Sites: LogoGala | Golf Ledger (coming soon)
    Twitter: Deron Sizemore

  23. #48
    SitePoint Wizard Young Twig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oerdec
    I donīt know of good extensions for IE.
    www.bayden.com

    Best popup killer ever. There are some other cool plugins there, too.

    But Firefox is still amazing (although I'd love a Popup Popper port).

  24. #49
    Avoid the inevitable. Katasdf's Avatar
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    Pfff. Easiest question ever.
    Themes and Extensions

    Nothing is better than that.
    Chris
    This is probably mine --> Design Heights

  25. #50
    Non-Member Egor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drzoid
    (if its meant for real)?
    I doubt it.
    Not defending MS in any way.


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