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View Poll Results: Should McVeigh's Execution Be Broadcast?

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  • No execution should be broadcast.

    41 66.13%
  • Yes - all execution's should.

    13 20.97%
  • Yes, but only in his case.

    8 12.90%
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  1. #101
    Anyone seen my cypher? OneChance's Avatar
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    Originally posted by freddydoesphp
    What are you like 14? Get Real! How is taking one man's(or animal's) life going to bring back the lives that have already been taken. ... Doesn't the bible teach about forgiveness?
    I think we can do without the personal attacks. I believe in the death penalty, too. Sure, killing him won't bring back anyone he's killed, but at least he will never get the chance to kill again. Also, just because someone lives in the south doesn't mean they believe in the bible. And you'd better go back and read up more about forgiveness. Only the victims can forgive. Too many people take it upon themselves to forgive people like McVeigh for what he's done to other people. It's not your place to forgive. Pray all you want if you feel you have to, but don't you dare disrespect the victims by forgiving for them.

  2. #102
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
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    Pray all you want if you feel you have to, but don't you dare disrespect the victims by forgiving for them.
    a: This sounds vaguely threatening, somthing I think "we can do without"

    b: yet you are quite happy to condemn for them
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  3. #103
    Dumb PHP codin' cat
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    I was merely rebutting hellbents claim that since he lives in Texas he feels he has more of a right to judge someone than anyone else.

    Too many people take it upon themselves to forgive people like McVeigh for what he's done to other people. It's not your place to forgive.
    Neither is it yours then, right?

    Pray all you want if you feel you have to, but don't you dare disrespect the victims by forgiving for them.
    Where in my post did I say I pray for McVeigh?

    Are you a victim?, last time I checked no one here was a victim of this attack(as far as I know), so according to you none of us should even be able to debate this because we are not victims. You are getting defensive about a post that wasn't even directed to you.

    but at least he will never get the chance to kill again.
    So doesn't that leave you on this planet to kill again?
    Please don't PM me with questions.
    Use the forums, that is what they are here for.

  4. #104
    Anyone seen my cypher? OneChance's Avatar
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    Let's not mistake forgiveness for justice. Anyway, what do you propose we do with McVeigh?

  5. #105
    Dumb PHP codin' cat
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    Like I already have said numerous times, I am glad to pay part of my tax money to keep him locked up. Believe me, I think McVeigh is an animal with an evil heart, but I can't find the satisfaction with killing him as you all can. Being a computer programmer, I find myself thinking logically most of the time. And this equation just doesn't add up.


    murderer = "Someone who takes another's life on purpose";

    McVeigh takes lives away by killing humans;

    ergo McVeigh = murderer

    Justice Department takes McVeigh's life on purpose.

    So doesn't

    Justice Department = murderer;

    and therefore isn't the justice department subject to those same laws?


    Again,

    I think about the real victims of this tragedy all the time. The families whose lives were shattered by this animal. However I cannot justify taking another man's(or animal, however you may feel) life.
    Please don't PM me with questions.
    Use the forums, that is what they are here for.

  6. #106
    will code HTML for food Michel V's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Hellbent
    I donít expect liberals to understand, hell liberals produce these monsters.
    Well as liberal as I can be, I might be your worst nightmare. Yet, in a very liberal country such as France, we have yet to see such product of institutionalized violence.
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  7. #107
    SitePoint Enthusiast norfett's Avatar
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    Hellbent, this is by no means an insult to you or americans in general,

    but, it cant help having a president in favour of it - What gives us the right to kill him? we dont, because by killing him, we are just as bad, and It is in no way "justice".

    Say we let you kill him, so YOU wouldnt mind being tried for his murder then I take it? Killing him is murder, just like he killed all them people in that bomb.

    Funny that humans are the only species on this planet that kill eachother for no reason whatsoever isnt it?


    I would rather pay taxes for him to be locked up, yeah he may have cable and that - but he would rather be killed, because when he gets to prison, can you imagine how the other prisoners will treat him? Like gutter material, and that hellbent, IS worse for him than us killing him, killing him gives him a way out - whereas in Prison it will be like torture. the best way IS to lock him up.

    Take the example here, in the UK of Myra Hindley (sp?) She has been in prison, for must be over 30 years, and this is torture for her, cos believe it or not, she's safer inside.

    The torture of being locked up is worse, because to Kill her (or McVeigh) is putting them out of their misery.

    As for you, if you really believe that Mc Viegh's execution should be turned into a razz-tazz jazzed up American Showcase event, then you really are SICK

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  8. #108
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    Originally posted by freddydoesphp
    What are you like 14? Get Real! How is taking one man's(or animal's) life going to bring back the lives that have already been taken. Especially for someone who lives in the heart of the bible belt, isn't it your belief that only god can judge people? What gives you that right? Doesn't the bible teach about forgiveness? Its a little ironic coming from a nice conservative southern boy like you.
    No I am not 14, and I am not a Christian. I could care less what the bible says. If there truly was a god I strongly doubt he would have let Mcveigh kill all those children. I believe that a man like Mcveigh has no rights. He is no longer deserving of any consideration. You people keep trying to make the comparison that killing Mcveigh is committing murder and thus becoming like Mcveigh. This simply is not the case, by killing Mcveigh you are enforcing the law and sending a message to other criminals as well. Also Freddy it is not my goal to "bring back the lives that have already been taken", It is my goal to destroy the monster who took those lives.
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  9. #109
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    Also to make a point. Mcveigh WILL die, and it WILL be broadcast on closed circuit television. These things are certain, End of story. It would seem a jury of Mcveigh's peers agree with me.
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  10. #110
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy TheOriginalH's Avatar
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    And you will not see it, because fortunately not everyone in your country shares your fetishes, and the pay per view option was (praise be to sanity) vetoed by your courts.
    ~The Artist Latterly Known as Crazy Hamster~
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  11. #111
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    I know I wont see it. And it is not a fetish, I have never watched anyone be put to death. However I would take great pleasure in watching Mcveigh die. So since it is obvious none of us are willing to change our beliefs based on the opinions of unknown strangers halfway around the world... Can we agree to disagree?
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  12. #112
    SitePoint Enthusiast norfett's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Hellbent
    I know I wont see it. And it is not a fetish, I have never watched anyone be put to death. However I would take great pleasure in watching Mcveigh die. So since it is obvious none of us are willing to change our beliefs based on the opinions of unknown strangers halfway around the world... Can we agree to disagree?
    Im sorry, but what do we gain by MURDERING (and yes, before you say it, murder is murder whatever and whoever commits it) McViegh?

    Surely more punishment will be to keep him alive? He's already said that he wants to die right? So why let him?

    Pete

    P.S. other than that, you enjoying and wanting his death to be turned into some sort of ppv event is SICK
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  13. #113
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    He should die for his crimes. You cannot convince me otherwise. And your opinion on my Psychiatrical State does not concern me.
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  14. #114
    I am the night... bman's Avatar
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    you know, i was gonna stay out of this, but i changed my mind. Personally i am for the Death penalty (an eye for an eye and all that junk.) but i dont want to argue about that.
    i personally don't think death is a good enough punishment for McVeigh. Nor would i want to see him tortured or anything. For McVeigh death would be an easy way out. I think he should be put in prison, and he should be in that prison like any other prisoner, right in among the general prison population.
    I think that would be a fitting punishment. Sure he will have his cable tv and all that. but then he will also probably be getting raped and beaten by other prisoners on a regular basis. Which would probably be much worse for him than death.
    but as was stated before, he is going to be put to death, and there is basically nothing we can do to change that, so why argue about it?
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  15. #115
    Fluffy Kitten Programmer~ Elledan's Avatar
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    The problem for most of the violence in the US lies in the dominating culture, a culture that is based on suspicion, violence, wars, paranoia and hatred. With the second amandment giving everyone the chance to go out and buy a gun, things won't get better soon.

    The biggest difference between the US and other western countries is who the 'monopoly' has on violence. I'll take my own country (the Netherlands) as an example. Only our Government is allowed to use violence. The police and the army are controlled by the Government and can therefore use violence if necessary. Normal citizens can use violence for self-defense, but the idea is that the Government protects the citizens. This is a fairly effective system and makes it much harder for criminals to get guns. For this reason we don't have children who accidentally shoot each other or intentionally (school-shootings).

    We don't have the death-penalty (since 1870) and the maximum time someone can spend in jail is 25 years, although an individual can be kept out of society using TBS.
    The crime-rates are stable (about 1100.000 cases in 1985 and 122.200 in 1998, these statistics include everything, even economical crimes, like fraud).

    Our culture is fastly different from the culture in the US and this expresses itself not only in crime-rates, but also in the behavior between people.


    As far whether or not the execution of McVeigh should be broadcast, I'll summarize my opinion in two short statements.

    - the death penalty is there for hypocritical societies. On one side they prohibit killing other people, but when it's a criminal, it's suddenly okay to kill someone? Talking about double standards.
    And then again, the death penalty is more expensive, not reversible (quite embarrassing if the convicted person proves to be innocent, which has happened already more than 86 times since 1976) and is not a punishment, but revenge, comparable to stoning in Iran.

    - Broadcasting this execution strongly reminds me of hungry lions killing people in front of an enthusiastic public somewhere in an arena in Rome...

    You bunch of savages
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  16. #116
    SitePoint Wizard westmich's Avatar
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    Elledan
    ...but the idea is that the Government protects the citizens.
    Was this the same effective policy in place in 1940-41?

    The reasoning behind the Second Amendment is for citizens to protect themselves FROM the government.

    I am sure there are many who laugh at such an idea, but government-based violence and opperssion are as real today as ever.
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  17. #117
    will code HTML for food Michel V's Avatar
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    Westmich, if you don't trust the government, then you can't trust the Police, can you ?
    Would you prefer private militias then ?

    I don't get the idea of people who elect guys to handle the States' affairs, and in the meanwhile buy guns to protect themselves from the very guys they elected.
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  18. #118
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Elledan
    The problem for most of the violence in the US lies in the dominating culture, a culture that is based on suspicion, violence, wars, paranoia and hatred. With the second amandment giving everyone the chance to go out and buy a gun, things won't get better soon.

    The biggest difference between the US and other western countries is who the 'monopoly' has on violence. I'll take my own country (the Netherlands) as an example. Only our Government is allowed to use violence. The police and the army are controlled by the Government and can therefore use violence if necessary. Normal citizens can use violence for self-defense, but the idea is that the Government protects the citizens. This is a fairly effective system and makes it much harder for criminals to get guns. For this reason we don't have children who accidentally shoot each other or intentionally (school-shootings).

    We don't have the death-penalty (since 1870) and the maximum time someone can spend in jail is 25 years, although an individual can be kept out of society using TBS.
    The crime-rates are stable (about 1100.000 cases in 1985 and 122.200 in 1998, these statistics include everything, even economical crimes, like fraud).

    Our culture is fastly different from the culture in the US and this expresses itself not only in crime-rates, but also in the behavior between people.


    As far whether or not the execution of McVeigh should be broadcast, I'll summarize my opinion in two short statements.

    - the death penalty is there for hypocritical societies. On one side they prohibit killing other people, but when it's a criminal, it's suddenly okay to kill someone? Talking about double standards.
    And then again, the death penalty is more expensive, not reversible (quite embarrassing if the convicted person proves to be innocent, which has happened already more than 86 times since 1976) and is not a punishment, but revenge, comparable to stoning in Iran.

    - Broadcasting this execution strongly reminds me of hungry lions killing people in front of an enthusiastic public somewhere in an arena in Rome...

    You bunch of savages
    You need to read this. Might shed some light on why you are as wrong as you are .

    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/talk-politi...gun-faq/part1/

    CONTENTS (* indicates an updated entry, !* a new section)

    SECTION I. - Personal issues

    * 1.0 - "You don't need a gun, the police will protect you."
    1.1 - "Guns aren't an effective defense, or, the 43:1 myth."
    * 1.1.a - "Chemical sprays and stun guns are just as effective."
    !* 1.1.b - "2.5 million defensive gun uses each year can't be true!"
    !* 1.1.c - "Is there independent evidence to support that number?"
    1.2 - "Bad guys will just take your gun away and shoot you."
    1.2.a - "...especially if you're a woman."
    * 1.3 - "Guns are too dangerous to own if you've got children."

    SECTION II. - Constitutional issues in the United States

    2.0 - "The 2nd Amendment means you can't disarm the National Guard."
    2.0.a - "What's the deal with the punctuation?"
    2.1 - "The 2nd Amendment doesn't protect an individual right."
    2.2 - "So you think everybody can own nuclear weapons?"
    * 2.3 - "The 2nd Amendment doesn't apply to states and localities."

    SECTION III. - Other "gun-control" fantasies

    * 3.0 - "We ought to register all firearms and ammunition."
    * 3.0.a - "We ought to license and register guns like cars."
    3.0.b - "Gun registration reduced homicides in Washington, D.C."
    !* 3.0.c - "'Taggants' in gunpowder and explosives fight terrorism."
    3.1 - "Guns increase the lethality of crime."
    * 3.2 - "Waiting periods save lives."
    * 3.2.a - "The Brady Act national waiting period is very effective."
    * 3.3 - "Ban assault weapons!"
    3.4 - "Ban cop-killer bullets!"
    3.4.a - "Ban Black Rhino ammunition!"
    3.5 - "Ban Saturday Nite Specials!"
    3.6 - "Ban plastic guns!"
    !* 3.6.a - "But how could you detect plastic guns?"
    * 3.7 - "Gun buy-backs are effective in getting guns off the street."
    3.8 - "Concealed-carry reform will take us back to the Wild West!"
    3.8.a - "What about the University of Maryland study?"
    !* 3.8.b - "Lott and Mustard's study is just gun industry propaganda!"

    SECTION IV. - Deterrence and resistance to tyranny

    4.0 - "Small arms aren't effective against a modern army."

    APPENDIX I. - Federal "gun control" laws in the United States

    "Nonmailable Firearms Act" of 1927 - Public Law 69-583
    National Firearms Act of 1934 - Public Law 73-474
    Federal Firearms Act of 1938 - Public Law 75-785 (repealed)
    Gun Control Act of 1968 - Public Law 90-618
    Firearms Owner's Protection Act of 1986 - Public Law 99-308
    Armor Piercing Ammunition ban of 1987 - Public Law 99-408
    Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988 - Public Law 100-649
    Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 - Public Law 101-647 (void)
    * Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 (void in part)
    - Public Law 103-159
    Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act of 1994
    (a.k.a. "assault weapons" ban) - Public Law 103-322

    * APPENDIX II. - Data on concealed carry reform in Florida

    APPENDIX III. - "Gun Control": international comparisons

    JAPAN
    CANADA
    UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
    * GREAT BRITAIN
    SWITZERLAND
    GERMANY
    * AUSTRALIA

    APPENDIX IV. - Washington, D.C.: a "gun control" paradise

    * APPENDIX V. - The U.S. Supreme Court and the Second Amendment

    !* APPENDIX VI. - Pious Frauds: If It Sounds Too Good To Be True...

    INDEX AND GLOSSARY

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    SECTION I. - Personal issues

    "The peaceable part of mankind will be continually overrun by the
    vile and abandoned while they neglect the means of self-defense.
    The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on
    the other hand, arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and
    the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world, as well as
    property. The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same
    balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms,
    for all would be alike; but since some_will_not,_ others_dare_not_
    lay them aside... Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the
    world deprived of the use of them;... the weak will become a prey
    to the strong."
    -=(Thomas Paine, "Thoughts on Defensive War," 1775)=-
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  19. #119
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    I hear alot of crickets but no replies.. Does this mean i win =)

    Do you now finally see the error of your ways? (Hb doubts it)
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  20. #120
    One website at a time mmj's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Hellbent
    Does this mean i win =)
    I don't think there are any 'winners' in SitePoint discussions.

    Only losers.
    (just kidding! hold on!)

    I was kind of relieved to see this thread gradually drift off the front page

    It was a good discussion, but one that I have lost track of. What's the content page of that Pro-Gun FAQ and that quote doing there?
    Last edited by mmj; Jun 5, 2001 at 18:11.
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  21. #121
    Yugo full of anvils bronze trophy hillsy's Avatar
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    Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of them;... the weak will become a prey to the strong.
    Hmmm. I can imagine this argument being used by pro-McVeigh radical headcases as well

    Retribution, sending messages, justice... bah humbug. Seems to me that these were exactly the kinds of values McVeigh was standing up for in his own twisted way. So someone please explain the moral difference between him and a system that sees fit to inflict capital punishment on literally hundreds of people, ostensibly for the same set of reasons?

    Lock the SOB up and throw away the key, I say.
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  22. #122
    SitePoint Enthusiast kdog316's Avatar
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    You know we should all just do what they did back in austrailia and another place. Throw all the prisoners on a deserted island or some horrible place like syberia or antartica. And yes i think it should be brodcasted that would be cool and it wouldnt be gross except to all you weak hearted people out there. We should really torchure him for what he did.

    oh yea and as sad as this is

    The human race is the only spiecies that killis its own spiecies for no reason. Also humans are dumb and ignorant people who dont deserve to live.And humans are the only speicies that knows its gonna die.All we are doing is destroying this earth that is only 10,000 years old. Also if aliens are for reals why the hell would they ever vist us were so dumb.
    Last edited by kdog316; Jun 6, 2001 at 08:57.
    will haveone soon

  23. #123
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Is it true that the Oklahoma City bombing took place on the same day the US Government was being tried for the Federal Siege at Ruby Ridge?

  24. #124
    Chikin Choker Hellbent's Avatar
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    anniversary of the Waco incident
    Straight from the TP! And I don't mean the Trailer Park.

  25. #125
    SitePoint Addict z7's Avatar
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    Oh - crossed conspiracy theorys - opps! - what date was Waco then? 19th April?

    Anyone check out this guy? - http://www.infowars.com/
    Last edited by z7; Jun 7, 2001 at 04:48.


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