Should McVeigh's Execution Be Broadcast?

[mmj]

Originally posted by mad-onion

On your issue of not creating victims, everyday that he lives we are creating victims. Ridding the planet of his vile existence would be closure, we could forget about it and move on

You seem to be missing my point. Imprisoning him would rid the planet of his vile existence, while not causing any unnecessary harm to him. We have to deal with our anger towards him in other ways.

[mad-onion]

People like this escape!!! While his heart is still beating he is still a part of society. If someone could give me a 100% assurance that he will NEVER see another civilian face again i may not have such a rash opinion but the fact is that he will never be gone until he is put to death, sorry but in some cases societly simply cannot hand out forgiveness and must take a hardline.

[mmj]

"Hasn't anyone ever told you you just can't kill people"
"Why?"
"You just can't"

I give up. Not killing people isn't something that can be argued, you just have to learn it. You have yet to learn it.

=
btw as for the original question: whether the execution should be broadcast or not:

I see no reason that it should not be broadcast, and if someone wants to broadcast it, they should not be prevented from doing so.

[creole]

Originally posted by mmj
You seem to be missing my point. Imprisoning him would rid the planet of his vile existence, while not causing any unnecessary harm to him. We have to deal with our anger towards him in other ways.

No offense mmj, but this is the problem that I have with people who take your view...

unnecessary harm? to HIM?

Who cares about him? What about the people he did harm to?

That is the thing that I have trouble wrapping my mind around. Many people in the American society are more concerned with treating criminals kindly, while almost ignoring the victims. There are criminals in the US have successfully sued a person they were trying to rob because they got hurt while in the process.

[mmj]

Originally posted by creole
Many people in the American society are ... almost ignoring the victims.

While I am not in the American society, I think I'd be able to say that nobody that opposes the death penalty is ignoring the victims. The reason that the death penalty is wrong is not that the victims don't matter.

[creole]

fair enough...I just wanted to point that out.

[mmj]

THIS JUST IN

The FBI has been found to have allegedly withheld over 200 possible pieces of evidence in McVeigh's case.

This could prevent McVeigh's execution.

Do you think this influences arguments for or against capital punishment? What do you think this says about our confidence in those who are licensed to kill?

[Polymath]

THIS JUST IN? From where? Plucked from the ether?

[mmj]

Just heard it on the late news on TV actually.

I only heard the news report, and it was quite brief, so I don't know the full details and cannot comment knowledgably. I was just wondering what views other people had, and what further info they had on it.

[westmich]

Yes, its true. They are postponing the execution until June 11. However, in this case its a moot point. He has already confesed (wrote a book actually) that he did set the bomb.

[Fiber]

Originally posted by Shin Ma

I'm all against people being able to pay to watch someone die on their TV screens.

Are we back to the gladiators era ? When Caesar put a thumb down and they executed the losing gladiator in front of an arena of blood-hungry people.

This is something that makes me lose all respect for those who will pay to watch the execution.

Actually if you put your finger up, that was to die, not to live.

It was vice versa back then. Down to live, up to die. Nowdays its Up is good, down is bad....see it? bad = die and live = good.
you get it.

[mmj]

Actually it is debatable which signal meant which. While most people seem to agree that a thumb up was the signal to die, some say that there was either no signal at all to live, a thumb down, or a thumb to the side to live.

This means that there is a possible historical inaccuracy in Ridley Scott's "Gladiator", but not a major one.

However the alternative was rarely used (apart from in Hollywood movies). They would almost always want the gladiator to die.

[HardwareQA]

Originally posted by Sparkie
I think his execution should be broadcast. Look at all the innocent lives he shattered. He doesn't deserve a shred of dignity or forgiveness from anyone, especially not the families who suffered because of his act. If you have seen some portions of the letters he has written and the things he's said, its very clear that this man wants to die and doesn't care about the human lives he has destroyed. Let him have his wish.

After watching him die most of the people will feel a compassion for him (that's a human nature) and that will make him a martyr!

[Polymath]

If a torture punishment was indicated, I would strip him naked, truss him up very tightly in chicken wire, then force-feed him for a few months. Meanwhile I would take a rat-tail file to the bridge of his nose.
But I don't see the need for torture, unless the victim's families feel up to the job.
I don't think the execution should be broadcast, either. But maybe if it was pay-per-view, the proceeds should go to the victims' families.
As an aside, I believe it was in China, or perhaps still is, that when they execute you (firing squad) they make the families of the executed pay for the bullets. Ouch!
(BTW, I should say that I'm not pro-torture, but I am pro making him very uncomfortable.)

[Marina]

Everybody, even McVeigh, thinks that they have a good reason to take someone else’s life. He, for instance, wanted to show the US government what would happen if US soldiers, who are paid and encouraged to kill people from other countries, would kill Americans instead. He had a good point but, as I mentioned in another thread, you can't tell people not to kill by killing them. And this applies to all of us. Reasons like "he killed a lot of people and he is evil" do not give us the right to kill him.
Violence and evil seem to be contagious. It is possible that people like McVeigh are put on this planet for a reason. We have to take a stand; do we want to let hatred control us as well or do we chose not to give in. Everybody is responsible only for their own actions.

[Hellbent]

Originally posted by norfett
We had this discussion (about death penalty) in English class when I was @ school.

My view on it now is, well what right have we to kill him? He killed so that makes it OK to kill him, and do the same thing?

No, we have no right to do that, that is being just as bad as he is. Prison is the best option, as that will make him suffer, forget the comforts he has, he'll have to LIVE with what he's done, which he wont want to do.

And, No, It shouldnt be broadcast, cos that is just sick, and even sicker to have it PPV and to make money out of someones death.

My 2 pennys anyhoos.

Pete

You could not be more wrong. Not only do these animals deserve to be killed they deserve to die in the most painful ways imaginable. It is liberal communist like yourself who create these monsters with your coddling and politically correct horsecrap. If parents where allowed to punish their children and run their homes this would not happen.

Let me break it down for you. Liberals come in and say you can’t punish people in this manner "No matter what they have done". The criminals know from that point forward "Hey!, The consequences for this are only minor, lets do it". So when someone else does it you liberals attack the media, "Must be all the violence on television". that’s were you could not be more wrong. ALL EXECUTIONS SHOULD BE BROADCAST! this will put the message out plain and simple that if you violate a law that mandates the death sentence YOU WILL DIE. Not only that but I think the should amend the criminal courts system to allow 2 appeals only. No less no more.

After execution the body should be placed on public display for passers by to spit upon and or otherwise mutilate.

All you liberals are successfully doing is retarding society to the point that a man cant make a comment that a woman has a nice chest without severe repercussions, but if he so desires he can murder her and her family and cut them up with minimal consequences. Every man and woman should also carry a firearm in my opinion. Armed society is polite society.

I have somewhat extreme views. However you liberals have insane views.

[Hellbent]

Originally posted by Marina
Everybody, even McVeigh, thinks that they have a good reason to take someone else’s life. He, for instance, wanted to show the US government what would happen if US soldiers, who are paid and encouraged to kill people from other countries, would kill Americans instead. He had a good point but, as I mentioned in another thread, you can't tell people not to kill by killing them. And this applies to all of us. Reasons like "he killed a lot of people and he is evil" do not give us the right to kill him.
Violence and evil seem to be contagious. It is possible that people like McVeigh are put on this planet for a reason. We have to take a stand; do we want to let hatred control us as well or do we chose not to give in. Everybody is responsible only for their own actions.

You too have a somewhat "off" view on this, by "off" I mean "wrong". We are not trying to teach this man not to kill. We are destroying a rabid animal that is a danger to society. Personally I dont believe in rehabilitation. A dog that has tasted human blood is always a threat and as such should be destroyed. And ol' Timothy is one such dog.

[Marina]

Your actions always tell more about you than about anyone else, no matter what others have done. Why is it not enough to keep dangerous people from hurting someone without repeating their mistakes "legally". Why do we have to become "rabid animals" like them? Why is it so important to "teach someone a lesson" and "take revenge"? Too much anger? Or are you so afraid that it feels safer to kill the one you're afraid of?

[Polymath]

But it's not killing the one's we're afraid of, it's killing the ones who do things like plant bombs to kill children. Such people deserve no consideration. Wipe them from the face of the planet.

[Hellbent]

I agree with Poly. I have no fear of TM, However I beleive if we executed him publicly in a grisly manner it would send a strong message to any other would be murderous ******* that if you attack society there ARE CONSEQUENCES. I have no desire to teach a maggot like TM. Simply destroy him and move on.

[Chris H]

Iran has a number of public executions every year. Most take the form of slow hanging or firing squad but now and again they have stonings and crushings. I think there's an article on the BBC News site about some planned 'events' in Iran?

Anyone have an idea if the existence of these punishments has a deterrent effect?

My own perception (just a perception - no more) is that places like Saudi Arabia and Iran have a lot less petty crime because of these punishements and also because society has not 'descended' into the selfish, isolated lifetyles we tend to have in the West.

[Polymath]

I heard yesterday that in the Southern US, where corporal punishment is allowed in schools in certain states, that the figures show education grades are higher in these states than elswhere in the US.
I have nothing to back this up though, I got that second-hand.

[Hellbent]

All the liberals want to do is make it so that no-one knows what discipline is. Discipline and punishment go hand in hand. A soceity without discpline is called a mob.

[creole]

Originally posted by Chris H
Iran has a number of public executions every year. Most take the form of slow hanging or firing squad but now and again they have stonings and crushings. I think there's an article on the BBC News site about some planned 'events' in Iran?

Anyone have an idea if the existence of these punishments has a deterrent effect?

My own perception (just a perception - no more) is that places like Saudi Arabia and Iran have a lot less petty crime because of these punishements and also because society has not 'descended' into the selfish, isolated lifetyles we tend to have in the West.

Knowing that you will get your hand cut off for pickpocketing is a pretty good deterrent.

[Hellbent]

You are absolutely correct. A man who is aware of an extreme consequence is likely to reconsider his course of action.