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  1. #1
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    I have managed a number 1 ranking at Google for my most relevant search terms, and the key seems to be a reasonably short page with relevant content. (The new index seems to have settled down in the last day or two.)

    Can anyone tell me whether it is actually possible to achieve high rankings at other search engines with the same page? Or are the ranking criteria too different?
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  2. #2
    SitePoint Enthusiast Sharon & Roy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Red Hot Dom
    I have managed a number 1 ranking at Google for my most relevant search terms. Can anyone tell me whether it is actually possible to achieve high rankings at other search engines with the same page? Or are the ranking criteria too different?
    Which terms are they?

    Being able to rank high at other Search Engines with the same page would depend on the terms and the Engines, so if you list your #1 ranked terms and which Engines you are interested in ranking high in I will do my best to quickly evaluate your Home Page.
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  3. #3
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    Most important search terms are first "expired domain names" and second "expired domain".

    I guess the next search engines to try for are AltaVista and Lycos.

    Thanks
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  4. #4
    SitePoint Enthusiast Sharon & Roy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Red Hot Dom
    Most important search terms are first "expired domain names" and second "expired domain". Thanks
    Okay Red Hot Dom, the FIRST thing to do is to change your 'title tag' to this ...

    <title>Expired Domain Names</title>

    ... You now have this ...

    <title>RedHotDomainNames.com - FREE Expired Domain Names</title>


    And your 'keywords meta tag' to this ...

    <meta name="Keywords" content="expired domain names">

    ... You now have this ... (which is actually penalizing you! Too many words and too many repeated occurances of the same word.)

    <meta name="Keywords" content="expired domain names, unregistered domain list, expired domain, domain name availability, available domain names, domain name list, expired domain name, unclaimed domain, available domain, unregistered domain names, domain names, unclaimed domain names, domains, free domain names, domain name search, register domain, domain name lists, domain name lookup, domain registration, internet domain names">


    Also, you NEED to include at least 2 or 3 occurances of your keywords in a 'heading tag', like this ... (At the very Top of your page for sure, then maybe in the middle and bottom of the page too.) The first 250 words of text on your page is the MOST important so have your keyword/keyphrase list there only twice, but list it.

    <h1>Expired Domain Names</h1>


    A common error most folks make is to NOT place their most important text which must include keywords in the first 250 words after the 'body tag'.

    You make this error too, by inserting a script there first and then to include your navigation area before your MOST important text is ever read by the Spiders. This will lose you points, LOTS of points. You will score much higher and rank much higher if you place the script and navigation bars lower on the page for the Spider to crawl last.

    You can achieve this by simply inserting the proper tables, so that the Spiders read your page correctly, and still keep your layout (navigation bars on left) in tact.

    Here is a tutorial to properly code your page with tables ...

    http://www.siteowner.com/tabletrick.html

    Here is the discussion from which it was taken ...

    Item #265 (29 Aug 2000 10:14) - I-Search Digest #249 - Detlev Johnson

    http://list.audettemedia.com/SCRIPTS...=D&F=&S=&P=936

    Search for 'table trick' on the page by pressing your 'Ctrl' key and 'F' key.

    By implementing just these small 'fixes' you WILL increase your Page's ranking, guaranteed.
    Last edited by Sharon & Roy; Apr 13, 2001 at 02:21.
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  5. #5
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    Thank you very much Sharon & Roy for your very detailed advice.

    A couple more questions! -

    1. By making these changes, is there any danger that the ranking at Google will drop? - Obviously I don't want to lose the no. 1 ranking there.

    2. I am getting hits with various other search terms. Should I retain these in the keywords meta tag? The top ones are:
    1. expired domain names 33.33%
    2. free domain names 11.44%
    3. expired domain 5.87%
    4. expired domain name 4.72%
    5. domain names 2.86%
    6. expired domain list 2.15%
    7. free domain 1.57%
    8. free expired domain names 1.43%
    9. list of expired domain names 1.43%
    10. free expired domain 1.29%
    11. free list of expired domain names 1.14%
    12. domain name lists 1.00%
    13. expired domains 1.00%
    14. free expired domain list 1.00%
    15. register expired domain names 1.00%

    The "free domain names" hits are from Netscape Search where I have a No.3 ranking for this term, but in the last few days traffic from "expired domain names" and "expired domain" at Google has increased to 50%.

    Thanks for all your help.
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  6. #6
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    Hi
    If you are number one with google I wouldn't touch the page. Google is the most popular SE with web masters which is your targeted market.
    To get the high ranking with Alta vista follow Sharon and Roy's advise but use a new page ie. a doorway page with a link to your home page. Don't set it up to re-direct automatically though as the spiders don't like it. Just create a page for each keyword with a nice big CLICK HERE TO GO message. This method is perfectly exceptable to the search engines as long as the page you are directing the visitor to does have geniune content for the keyword.
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  7. #7
    SitePoint Enthusiast Sharon & Roy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Red Hot Dom
    Thank you very much Sharon & Roy for your very detailed advice.
    You are very welcome, Red Hot Dom. It is our pleasure to share what we have experienced and learned.

    1. By making these changes, is there any danger that the ranking at Google will drop?
    In a simple answer, Yes! ... In a complex answer, maybe not, if you do some testing, but that could take weeks or months to complete. Google is more concerned about your popularity, so increasing your INBOUND Links will always improve your ranking.

    2. I am getting hits with various other search terms. Should I retain these in the keywords meta tag
    Yes, retain them if you are satisfied with your results.

    We also totally agree with ady if you are concerned about losing position on Google, so creating new CONTENT RICH pages with your keywords and keyword phrases is perfect. Create lots of INBOUND Links to these types of pages from your other pages as well. That will provide you the proper coding needed for certain Search Engines who frown upon doorway pages. By definition doorway pages are usually not content rich and usually have no inbound links from within the domain. Just some food for thought as you create these pages, because you would not want to be accidentally spamdexing the Search Engines.

    For your information, we never refer to these types of pages as doorway pages because by definintion they are not. We just refer to them as what they are, Content Rich pages that focus on YOUR indented keyword search phrase(s).

    We recommend that you write an informative article with just the right amount of keyword density (about 5%-7% of your total word count) to make that page as CREDITABLE as possible, thereby staying as far away from the definition stigma of doorway pages as you can.

    We would also like to add that you create a special directory for this new page and give it a keyword name.

    For example ...

    http://www.redhotdomainnames.com/expired/

    http://www.redhotdomainnames.com/expired-names/

    http://www.redhotdomainnames.com/expired-domain-names/

    Then ALWAYS name your actual page ... index.html

    Then submit your page to the Search Engines as this ...

    http://www.redhotdomainnames.com/expired/

    ... NOT like this ...

    http://www.redhotdomainnames.com/expired/index.html

    Google gives you a higher position if your keywords are also found in your URL. AltaVista and the others may also give you more relevance.

    In addition to a better ranking, folks can then also search for your Site by keywords in the URL by using a syntax like this ...

    For Google ...
    allinurl:expired domain names
    http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...d+domain+names

    For Alta Vista ...
    url:expired domain names
    http://av.com/cgi-bin/query?q=url%3A...d+domain+names

    For Yahoo ...
    u:domain names
    http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=url%3Adomain+names


    ... ALSO keywords included in your Title Tag can be searched ...

    For Google ...
    allintitle:expired domain names
    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...d+domain+names

    For Alta Vista ...
    title:expired domain names
    http://av.com/cgi-bin/query?q=title%...d+domain+names

    For Yahoo ...
    title:expired domain names
    http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=tit...d+domain+names
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  8. #8
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    Hi everyone,
    Fascinating stuff, Sharon and Roy. I would question the relevance of META keywords nowadays - one or two search engines give them a little credibility, but not I believe, Google.
    I'm also a little doubtful about keywords in the URL having any significance, though of course things change all the time. I believe Danny Sullivan doesn't give them any credence, but at the end of the day, who knows for sure ?

    But my main point was: what is the principle behind the table trick ? It's well known that the left side, first 150 words get prioritised by the spiders- so how do these tables work ? Is it the fact that the larger table is a little higher than the smaller one ?

    I wonder about layers, as well - the possibility that layers towards the front are given more significance than layers further back. But that's just me having an afterthought.

    Very, very interesting.
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  9. #9
    SitePoint Enthusiast Sharon & Roy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Gardener
    Fascinating stuff, Sharon and Roy. I would question the relevance of META keywords nowadays - one or two search engines give them a little credibility, but not I believe, Google.
    Hi Gardener. Thanks for your kind words, and yes, we absolutely agree with you about the relevance of META keywords. In fact we just posted our 'short list' of what are the most important elements of a Web Page to concentrate on for top optimized rankings, and we listed them as LAST in importance. CLICK HERE to read our post. Many people give them way too much credit and assume them to be an end-all and be-all to ranking high for their chosen keywords. That could not be further from the truth. Folks need to listen to credible SEO professionals, and then they would know that to not be true and they would not agonize over such things as what keywords to use, how many words to use, do I use commas, or not, etc., heck, we say, don't even include them and you will still rank well, and in most cases, better, even for those Engines who index them and make use of them.

    I'm also a little doubtful about keywords in the URL having any significance
    Gardener, we most certainly did not mean to imply that keywords in your URL would significantly increase your ranking, but what we did want to imply was that if ALL other things are equal, we have seen evidence that the keyworded URL is given a slight advantage in some Search Engines. We also wanted to imply, that if you are going to name your directory/page anything, it might as well be or include your keywords.

    But my main point was: what is the principle behind the table trick ? It's well known that the left side, first 150 words get prioritised by the spiders- so how do these tables work ? Is it the fact that the larger table is a little higher than the smaller one ?
    Gardener, the principle behind the table trick is to provide the Search Engine Spiders the opportunity to index your main, keyword, content rich text and your 'heading tags' FIRST and not your 'navigation links', JavaScript's or other various non-content rich text/code, AND all without having to relocate the 'navigational links' from the left side of your page to the right.

    For a complete and better understanding, we have a detailed informational page located CLICK HERE
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  10. #10
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    Gotcha- but what's the principle ? The mechanics - I appreciate that it's to get the contents rich bit indexed first.
    But the mechanics- is it because the spider reads one table before the other - and is that because it's technically slightly higher up the page ?
    If I can understand how that works I can then utilise it - for example, I could have three tables, if I so wanted, and ( in theory at least) 'direct' the spider from one to the other in the order I preferred.
    Not that I think for one moment that spiders are that amenable to being directed.
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  11. #11
    SitePoint Enthusiast Sharon & Roy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Gardener
    Gotcha- but what's the principle ? is it because the spider reads one table before the other?
    Yes. I'm sorry, but did you not understand that from reading Our Comments ... Did we not answer your question there? I apologize if you did not understand, so let me reword it ...

    We Wrote ...
    Sharon & Roy Montero's Comments - A Search Engine Spider will read your text from top to bottom and from left to right. That means that the first 250 (or so) words immediately after the Body Tag ... <body> ... is the MOST important real estate on your whole entire page.

    Therefore, DON'T make the same mistake that most others do, and place your navigation links or scripts code there.

    What you SHOULD have there are your Heading Tags ... i.e. <h1>Your Keywords Here</h1> and your keyword phrase listed at least twice but no more than 3 times and lots of rich relevant content.

    There is an easy workaround to accomplish this if your page is not already so designed. All you do is use a specifically designed table layout. It will allow your 'main text' to be listed/spidered BEFORE your navigation links, and the navigation links will still appear on the left side of your page.

    Again, we want to emphisize that the Search Engines will rank your page higher in their results if you include Heading Tags and Keywords in the first 250 words or so immediately after the Body Tag of your Web Pages.

    The pricinple is that Spiders read your Web Page from top to bottom and from left to right. So that means that the first 250 words immediately AFTER the Body Tag will be read and indexed in just that way.

    So to use a simple illustration for you, view the following numbers as the Navigation Links and Content Rich Text on your Web Page ...

    View the first line of numbers (1-15) as the Navigation Links

    And the second line of numbers (16-27) as the Content Rich Text

    <body>
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15

    16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27
    </body>


    Now, the normal way or the most common way that folks will set up their table to provide two columns, one for the Navigation Links on the left side and one for the Content Rich Text on the right side, is to use this one ...


    <table>
    <tr>

    <td>Navigation Links</td>

    <td>Content Rich Text</td>

    </tr>
    </table>


    ... or to use the numbers for illustration purposes. this one ...


    <body>
    <table>
    <tr>

    <td>1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15</td>

    <td>16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27</td>

    </tr>
    </table>
    </body>


    By using the table layout above, the Spiders will read and index the Navigation Links before the Content Rich Text

    Now, you could just reverse the content for each column like this ...


    <table>
    <tr>

    <td>Content Rich Text</td>

    <td>Navigation Links</td>
    </tr>

    </table>


    ... or this ...


    <body>
    <table>
    <tr>

    <td>16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27</td>

    <td>1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15</td>

    </tr>
    </table>
    </body>


    But in doing so, you will now end up with the Navigation Links on the RIGHT SIDE of the Web Page.

    This is perfectly fine and the Spiders will still read and index the Content Rich Text first and that will still create the desired results for Optimum SE Optimiztion

    But for the folks who want Optimum SE Optimiztion and want the Navigation Links on the left, the Table Trick is to be used, like this ...


    <table>
    <tr>
    <td></td>
    <td></td>

    <td rowspan=2>Content Rich Text</td>

    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>
    <table>
    <tr>

    <td>Navigation Links</td>

    </tr></table>
    </td></tr></table>


    and is that because it's technically slightly higher up the page?
    Well, I would not word it that way, but as you can see from the table illustration above, the desired Content Rich Text will be read FIRST.

    If I can understand how that works I can then utilise it - for example, I could have three tables, if I so wanted
    Yes, you can have any number of tables you desire. As you can see, the Table Trick uses two tables, one nested inside the other.

    and ( in theory at least) 'direct' the spider from one to the other in the order I preferred.
    No theory ... It is a FACT, you CAN 'direct' the spider from one to the other in the order YOU prefer. That is the WHOLE idea/principle behind the Table Trick

    Not that I think for one moment that spiders are that amenable to being directed.
    Well, Gardener, as you can now see, spiders ARE amenable to being directed.

    We hope that we have adequately answered your questions and comments and we sincerely wish you much success in your endeavors with this table code!!!
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  12. #12
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    Thanks, Sharon and Roy,
    Yes, I was a bit dense there, and I did need it spelt out!
    All the world's a stage......


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