Netscape 6 rant

[johntabita]

It is just me, or does Netscape 6 totally suck?

Whenever I test my pages in it (I'm using Dreamweaver on a Mac & using F12/Command-F12 to preview in IE & NN), Netscape inevitable refuses to display anything but a blank white screen. Only re-launching NN will cause it to preview correctly again.

The same thing happens when I surf online, eventually it refuses to display pages. Is anyone else experiencing the same problems?

[psalzer]

Can't say I've had those problems with it. It's a pain, in that it does break some pages and things that were nicely cross-browser compatible no longer are sometimes, but I don't think I've drawn a blank with it as yet.

[mjames]

Quite simply, if you don't like it, don't use it.

[Lor]

I just never use Netscape. Saves me from being frustrated.

[Goof]

Originally posted by Lor
I just never use Netscape. Saves me from being frustrated.

Thats a problem when you start doing commercial sites seeing that netscape is still considered a major browser...

Anyway, no I have not had any trouble with netscape 6. I did with PR1, but now that 6.01 is out I've been ok. Actually, it's pretty close to heaven compared to that 4.x BS that netscape tried to pass as a browser.

One reason NS will give you a totally blank screen is if you improperly form tables (like closing </td></tr> but forgetting to close </table>). Instead of being cool like IE and at least rendering part of the table, NS decides to skip the table code entirely.

Just a few thoughts...
Goof

[Lor]

Originally posted by Goof


Thats a problem when you start doing commercial sites seeing that netscape is still considered a major browser...
Goof

I completely agree! I do check sites through Netscape to see the outcome of it. But personally, I just never make use of it.

[scrubz]

Yes, luckily Netscape 6 behaves itself much better than Netscape 4.x. Since Internet Explorer can be lenient about sloppy code, a lot of folks get surprised/frustrated when Netscape won't render the page correctly. But is that really Netscape's fault for requiring that you code your pages correctly?

According to browser watch's latest stats (http://www.browserwatch.com), users of their site using Netscape 6 for Windows account for less than 2% of those using Netscape browsers. So, even though we should make sure things work in Netscape 6, it doesn't look like there are many people out there using it very much (including me).

[Macromedia]

Yes, NS 6 is one of the least used browsers according to my stats, I mean it's less used than IE 3 (on my site). I guess we're not the only ones that don't like NS6...

[psalzer]

It's non-existant on any of my sites, so far. It also goes to what's been said in other forums. I, like most people here, downloaded it, because of needing it to check sites, but it was a pretty long download. If people are happy enough with what they have, they're not in a hurry to do it. Netscape 4x is still very much in evidence in my stats, though, although of course IE 4-5 are still the big majority browsers there as most places.

[Goof]

Originally posted by Macromedia
Yes, NS 6 is one of the least used browsers according to my stats, I mean it's less used than IE 3 (on my site). I guess we're not the only ones that don't like NS6...

It's been out for about a month...only geeks like us check out the new browsers within a month of their release...

[AlexW]

Personally, even though I don't use it to surf much, I quite like NS6. It's interface is quite pleasant and apart from the slow launch speed, it's always run solidly for me on both my installations.

It's easy to forget that it took us all years to develop the little hacks, double-coding and workarounds that we have needed to make our sites work in Netscape4 (in particular). They are part of our collective repertoire as web designers and we don't think twice anymore when we employ them. In, fact, after a while it's easy to forget exactly why it is we do things in a particular way (speaking for myself at least).

These problems were caused by either non or partial compliance with standards agreed upon by a council of learned, independent, experts assembled from around the planet. When browser-makers ignore these standards (as they often have in the past) our job gets harder.

If browser-makers stick pretty closely to these standards then we can spend our creative energies making clever web sites designs, rather than nifty browser hacks.

For all it's well documented problems, Netscape 6 sticks very closely to the current standard and for that they should be congratulated (belatedly). It's a new version, and it will have a few more bugs than we will want it to, but the more we build for it, and the more we encourage Netscape users to use it, the easy our job will get.

[JAD]

i have problems with NS6 not only with sites I built but with other sites when I browse with it.
It has bugs and needs work.
That's true of most browsers when they are first released.
Question is, can you ignore it/
No.
If you want people to see your site you have to test and make it work on all browsers.
We are stuck with it.
Best thing to do is complain to Netscape when you find a problem.
Enough complaints may make them fix it.

[lynlimz]

hmm..
doens't give me much problems...
just need to iron out osme of their 'doctype rendering' bugs.

[Smarky]

Many people have a go at how netscape 4 doesn't render the pages correctly and how IE 4 does, but one thing you should note is that the core 4.0 browser came out before the final standards where published this is the reason for partial support in many areas. Netscape never really updated it though

Netscape 6 will be a very good browser however I belive that they put it out to early which is going to hurt them. Mozilla is still way off being 1.0 and look how long ago NS 6 came out. The interface is already seeing another change. NS 6 based on current mozilla code or the final code will recive a lot more credit than it is currently getting.

[HumanClay]

I have never had any problems with Netscape 6. Even all of the pages I have designed look correct in NS6. As stated before, one of the biggest problems people can run into with NS is forgetting to close a <table> tag (or related tags). I also like NS6 although I hardly use it. It is smooth, and works great. The design is also very nice. But I still use IE6 because it loads faster for me, and I'm on an old, slow computer

[Smarky]

The code that netscape 6 is running on hasn't yet been made to load fast and use less ram Netscape really put out pre beta or early beta code as final because it is based on mozilla which I belive the final mozilla code is on track to go gold in end of Q2 this year

[lynlimz]

Her'es an excellent link on the mozilla roadmap

http://www.mozilla.org/roadmap.html

I feel that ie6 has gone towards a totally worng direction, adding extra stuffs that ain't necessary..and adds to the bloat(ing) of the software.

its the first time, i held off a beta of ie.

if mozilla proves to be better, i'll switch over. =)

[johntabita]

Thanks for all the replies. I'd avoid Netscape entirely if I could... I only use it to test pages I'm building. I'm aware of the 2% usage stats, but I'm mindful that this will most likely increase over time.

The odd thing is that everything works fine the first few times I preview, then it decides to crap out.

The problem I originally posted occurs both at home and at work, so perhaps it's a problem with the Macintosh version. Are the rest of you on PCs?

[lynlimz]

yes
i'm on pc

[AlexW]

Yep using it on a PC here. I've heard of a few Mac people with NS6 problems so it seems that it might be less stable on the Mac platform.

Also seems to cause more problems if you install it in the same folder as NS4. I actually uninstalled NS4, then put NS6 in. Later I just copied the NS4 folder back into program files without installing it properly. It works fine.

I find it kind of strange to hear Mac users being critical of Netscape. I was studying in 97/98 where the entire lab was Mac. If you said the word 'browser' you meant 'Netscape'. It was beyond question. IE4 was buggy, quirky, half-finished and slow as a wet week.

Four years is a long time.

[lynlimz]

Originally posted by AlexW
I find it kind of strange to hear Mac users being critical of Netscape. I was studying in 97/98 where the entire lab was Mac. If you said the word 'browser' you meant 'Netscape'. It was beyond question. IE4 was buggy, quirky, half-finished and slow as a wet week.

yep..ie5 in mac isbetter then the windows version as it more standards compliance too@!

[mmj]

I fired up netscape 6 for the first time to see what my site looked like. I am pleased to say that all is fine.

There was only one little thing I had to clean up for it, but I'd rather clean up my code than mess it up, for NS 4.x

I like a few features of NS6, like the way ALT text is displayed while an image loads. I don't think I'll use it for regular browsing though. It is slower, and there are a few features missing...

I don't really like skins either, and while this isn't a reason not to use something, it is one of the straws on the camel's back...

I had problems with early NS6 preview releases, but no problems with the latest ones yet.

[AlexW]

I'm playing around with a Gecko based browser called K-Meleon . It's a little unstable still but it has 5 things going for it.

• 1. As far as I can tell it renders exactly like NS6 but does it a bit faster.
• 2. It look and feels very similar to IE even using IE's favorites
• 3. It loads in about 2 seconds on my 800mhz system
• 4. It's only about 2.5 M to download
• 5. Of course it's free

[lynlimz]

Originally posted by AlexW
I'm playing around with a Gecko based browser called K-Meleon . It's a little unstable still but it has 5 things going for it.

• 1. As far as I can tell it renders exactly like NS6 but does it a bit faster.
• 2. It look and feels very similar to IE even using IE's favorites
• 3. It loads in about 2 seconds on my 800mhz system
• 4. It's only about 2.5 M to download
• 5. Of course it's free

COoL..I'll give it a look

[TheOriginalH]

Re netscape 6.
I am forced to browse externally with netscape at work, and have to jump between 4.7 and 6 to get things to work.

For example, sitepointforums sometimes fails in NS4.7 - really quirky bizzare stuff, so I use NS6 (yes it takes aeons to load).

www.123-reg.co.uk has a nice dhtml effect which stubbornly refuses to play in NS6, rendering the side unusable.

I liked geko when I first tried it, but try any sort of dhtml navigation and it goes potty. For an example, check out www.pc-world.co.uk

roll on compliant and unified browsers.....

H