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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synaesthesiac
    No, you only said you hoped Firefox would catch on despite people being too apathetic or stupid to try it.
    And I've also said one of the reasons people are apathetic and/or stupid is that no one educates or energizes them. I'm doing my part to rectifiy that.

    "I'm not anti-Firefox."

    Why should you be? I'm anti-Internet Explorer, for some very good reasons, but I can't imagine why anyone would be anti-Firefox. It's illogical.

    "I just don't have a good reason to go around promoting it over IE."

    Of course not; you said you don't have much experience with Firefox.

    "At the same time, I'm not going around promoting IE, either."

    Again, why should you? That would be illogical.

    "I encourage everyone to let their own experiences be their guide. Don't worry, though, I pose no threat to your Firefox revolution."

    Likewise, my Firefox revolution poses no threat to you and anyone else who chooses to use Internet Explorer - or does it?

    "Unlike you, I have presented logic and accounts of experience in my contributions to this thread."

    Logic - like the friend who turned you against Firefox because he couldn't get his profiles to work?

    "I've given examples as to why many non-technical people may find Firefox less easy and less pleasant to use than IE. You have yet to give one solid example of Firefox's superiority over IE's, except to say that Firefox is better simply because it isn't developed by Microsoft<snip>

    Well, if you want examples, why didn't you say so? How about all those neat extensions that come with Firefox? How about the fact that the folks at Mozilla actually respect the standards Bill Gates thumbs his nose at? Why do you suppose Firefox has become so popular with web designers and other "technophiles"? It's because the experts recognize it as a superior tool.

    Most amateurs aren't aware of Firefox's superiority. End of story.

    "I think you should adopt this as your own personal slogan for Firefox:"

    "Firefox: Don't Ask Why, Just Use It, Stupid!"



    Ah, but I've already listed my favorite slogan: TAKE BACK THE INTERNET. Besides, the slogan you suggested has already been claimed by Internet Explorer fans.


  2. #127
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    I reckon Firefox will continue to do well. But realisticly, i dont think it will prevail to win over IE, simply because of the hold on the market that Microsoft has. Like so many people have already said, most people dont really care... they just click on the little blue icon because they know that its there... why do they need another one ?

    It sorta pisses me off, but what can we do ? I have managed to convert numerous people, (2 just this week) who are all stoked about how much better Firefox is, and i will continue to do so.

    In general though.. i really hate the situation with Microsoft and the grasp on the market. Especially when their products are of such crappy quality and so many people use them, and for such a large company... they are so damn slow in making things better ! How long has it been since a major release of Windows Or IE ??? I am a mac user and am so happy for that.

    Here is an article i thought was really well written about people's mentality when it comes to making the switch away from Microsoft. It talks about Apple... but i think you could use a similar analogy when you are talking about Firefox and IE.

    http://www.billpalmer.net/com000214.html

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattwebb
    I reckon Firefox will continue to do well. But realisticly, i dont think it will prevail to win over IE, simply because of the hold on the market that Microsoft has.
    Yes.

    "It sorta pisses me off, but what can we do ? I have managed to convert numerous people, (2 just this week) who are all stoked about how much better Firefox is, and i will continue to do so."

    Good for you; that's more than most people do.

    "In general though.. i really hate the situation with Microsoft and the grasp on the market. Especially when their products are of such crappy quality and so many people use them, and for such a large company... they are so damn slow in making things better ! How long has it been since a major release of Windows Or IE ???"

    Here's a recent article: "Who is hurt by Microsoft's neglect of older browsers?": http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1650827,00.asp

  4. #129
    SitePoint Zealot Digitalman's Avatar
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    can IE challege firefox

    I think the title of the thread should have been "can IE challege firefox".
    As of now Firefox is the big winner have you seen all the extensions for firefox amazing: http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/
    I will redesign all my website now to work perfect with mozilla and firefox and all webmasters most do so I think.

  5. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalman
    I think the title of the thread should have been "can IE challege firefox."

  6. #131
    SitePoint Enthusiast lauriek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmj
    To keep this thread on-topic and civil, please refrain from debating the question of 'is Microsoft evil?' in this topic and try to keep to discussing Firefox and how it does or does not challenge Internet Explorer.

    We have been getting complaints about this thread and we may remove future 'Microsoft is/is not evil' posts in this thread.
    What sort of complaints and from whom? In all seriousness would you remove anti Microsoft posts at Microsofts request???

    Why would you remove Microsoft is not evil posts??? Very confused!?

  7. #132
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauriek
    What sort of complaints and from whom? In all seriousness would you remove anti Microsoft posts at Microsofts request???

    Why would you remove Microsoft is not evil posts??? Very confused!?
    The complaints are most likely about the thread being trolled and derailed. I had to remove some trollish posts that had nothing to do with the topic at hand. Oh, and the complaints were from fellow forum members. This has nothing to do with the Microsoft conspiracy .

  8. #133
    SitePoint Wizard Dangermouse's Avatar
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    Microsoft conspiracy? OMG Bill is really a woman called Gill?!

  9. #134
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    I don't see any browser taking much market share from IE, especially one like Firefox that supposedly has problems displaying a lot of sites. IE is said to be more forgiving of sloppy HTML, so as a user, that sounds like a GOOD thing. Why would people want to switch to a pickier browser? It might be great for testing your own site, but that's about it.

    The main reason another browser won't take over is that probably half the users out there don't know there are other browsers available, and a good chunk of those who do know don't see a reason to download a huge file and switch.

  10. #135
    SitePoint Addict Tim_Rogovets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalman
    I will redesign all my website now to work perfect with mozilla and firefox and all webmasters most do so I think.
    LOL!

    IE lovers and FrontPage Monkeys, please skip this post.

    I've got an insane idea - maybe we all, webmasters, should shake our hands and rewrite our sites to make them look ok in all browsers, except IE (as a response to Microsoft's ignorance of the w3c standards.).

    Why should we ignore the standards and all new great possibilities they provide? Just cuz IE ignores them?

    Let's use the new possibilities the w3c is giving to us! We can all put some small notes like: "If this web site looks horrible - you've using an old and outdated browser. Please download the latest version of Firefox here."
    CEO of Grandiz! - a team based in Odessa, Ukraine.
    Designing and developing sophisticated web apps on CodeIgniter!

  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyer727
    I don't see any browser taking much market share from IE, especially one like Firefox that supposedly has problems displaying a lot of sites.
    That's what certain individuals say, but it's a problem I've scarcely noticed.

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer727
    IE is said to be more forgiving of sloppy HTML, so as a user, that sounds like a GOOD thing. Why would people want to switch to a pickier browser? It might be great for testing your own site, but that's about it.
    Actually, that's a good point; nothing navigates crap better than crapware.

    However the whole purpose of standards is to improve performance. So if Firefox does have a problem displaying websites made with FrontPage, it presumably compensates by displaying sites made with professional software more quickly and efficiently.

    Of course, I'm just generalizing, but I would guess that the difference between crap-surfing and standards-based surfing will become more apparent in the months and years ahead.

    Do you want to be anchored to a crappy browser when web designers get serious about XML, SVG images and other technologies?

    "The main reason another browser won't take over is that probably half the users out there don't know there are other browsers available, and a good chunk of those who do know don't see a reason to download a huge file and switch."

    Educate them.

  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim_Rogovets
    LOL!

    IE lovers, please skip this post.

    I've got an insane idea - maybe we all, webmasters, should shake our hands and rewrite our sites to make them look ok in all browsers, except IE (as a response to Microsoft's ignorance of the w3c standards.).

    Why should we ignore the standards and all new great possibilities they provide? Just cuz IE ignores them?

    Let's use the new possibilities the w3c is giving to us! We can all put some small notes like: "If this web site looks horrible - you've using an old and outdated browser. Please download the latest version of Firefox here."

    That's exactly what I've contemplated! I'd like to get a list of things Firefox does well that Internet Explorer doesn't, then design webpages that work OK in IE except for one or two conspicuous flaws. It would be especially nice to design a really nifty feature that only works with Firefox. Then tell your visitors, "You can view a remote-controlled index to all the world's nations if you're using the fabulous Firefox browser."

  13. #138
    Romans 12:2 codyrockx's Avatar
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    "The main reason another browser won't take over is that probably half the users out there don't know there are other browsers available, and a good chunk of those who do know don't see a reason to download a huge file and switch."

    it's not a huge file, and also it basically downloads and installs itself
    Codyrobert.com - Designer and Developer

  14. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by geosite
    That's exactly what I've contemplated! I'd like to get a list of things Firefox does well that Internet Explorer doesn't, then design webpages that work OK in IE except for one or two conspicuous flaws. It would be especially nice to design a really nifty feature that only works with Firefox. Then tell your visitors, "You can view a remote-controlled index to all the world's nations if you're using the fabulous Firefox browser."
    Sure. Go ahead as long as you don't mind alienating 90% of your potential customer/fan base.
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  15. #140
    SitePoint Addict Tim_Rogovets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geosite
    That's exactly what I've contemplated! I'd like to get a list of things Firefox does well that Internet Explorer doesn't, then design webpages that work OK in IE except for one or two conspicuous flaws. It would be especially nice to design a really nifty feature that only works with Firefox. Then tell your visitors, "You can view a remote-controlled index to all the world's nations if you're using the fabulous Firefox browser."
    That's a great idea and it doesn't sound as insane, as mine... We can just offer some extra cool site features to visitors with Firefox, but warn all others that these features only work in modern browsers (not a browser that was released in late 2001.... Just think about this date! It's late 2004 now. Ridiculous!)

    Geosite, please pm me if you get some results in this. I will pm you with my successes too.
    CEO of Grandiz! - a team based in Odessa, Ukraine.
    Designing and developing sophisticated web apps on CodeIgniter!

  16. #141
    SitePoint Wizard samsm's Avatar
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    My laptop's trackpad scrolling doesn't work with Firefox.

    Therefore, Firefox is pale in comparison to IE on my laptop.

    Firefox challenged IE and IE won. I guess Synaptic helped.
    Using your unpaid time to add free content to SitePoint Pty Ltd's portfolio?

  17. #142
    SitePoint Addict Tim_Rogovets's Avatar
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    Hell yeah!

    Just noticed that IE is #10 by keyword Web Browser at google.

    Guess, who's #1 ?
    CEO of Grandiz! - a team based in Odessa, Ukraine.
    Designing and developing sophisticated web apps on CodeIgniter!

  18. #143
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim_Rogovets
    Hell yeah!

    Just noticed that IE is #10 by keyword Web Browser at google.

    Guess, who's #1 ?
    But with today's class of new internet user, will anybody search for "Web Browser" and actually know what it is? I think Firefox would have to be #1 for "the Internet" to get actual downloads based on search engine referrals instead of word of mouth.

  19. #144
    SitePoint Addict Synaesthesiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geosite
    Well, if you want examples, why didn't you say so? How about all those neat extensions that come with Firefox? How about the fact that the folks at Mozilla actually respect the standards Bill Gates thumbs his nose at? Why do you suppose Firefox has become so popular with web designers and other "technophiles"? It's because the experts recognize it as a superior tool.
    Finally! Something intelligent from you, not based on insults or baseless opinion! Welcome to the discussion!
    Last edited by Synaesthesiac; Sep 24, 2004 at 12:59.
    Danielion
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  20. #145
    SitePoint Addict Synaesthesiac's Avatar
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    Hell yeah!

    Just noticed that IE is #10 by keyword Web Browser at google.

    Guess, who's #1 ?
    IE's ranking in the search engine doesn't mean anything except that the other sites are better optimized and have more link popularity, as they well should if they want to get attention.
    Danielion
    Imagine a world without hypothetical scenarios...

  21. #146
    SitePoint Zealot Digitalman's Avatar
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    You know what I like the most about this.
    I can choose.
    Use Firefox, Netscape, Mozilla, IE or Opera I donít care, but I do care that I can choose.
    If there is a new browser war I hope no one wins so I can still choose.
    The freedom to choose is great.

  22. #147
    He's No Good To Me Dead silver trophybronze trophy stymiee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalman
    You know what I like the most about this.
    I can choose.
    Use Firefox, Netscape, Mozilla, IE or Opera I donít care, but I do care that I can choose.
    If there is a new browser war I hope no one wins so I can still choose.
    The freedom to choose is great.
    Exactly. I had to use NN4 for far too long because of the lack of alternatives. And even if no one overtakes IE, IE7 will still be a better browser then it might have been because of the competition.

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveMaxwell
    Sure. Go ahead as long as you don't mind alienating 90% of your potential customer/fan base.
    Alienate them? Not if I do it right. Here's how it works:

    Design a relatively "normal" webpage that works OK in both Firefox and Internet Explorer. Then tell visitors there's an EXTRA FEATURE they can take advantage of if they're using Firefox.

    Not switching to Firefox won't impede their "normal" use of your website; you're simply offering a little bonus for people who aren't too lazy to download and install a really simple piece of software.

    In some cases, you can also sweeten the pie by politicizing your message. There are a growing number of people who are coming to see Microsoft in a new light.

  24. #149
    Non-Member marchukt's Avatar
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    mozzila is cool, because it has SOOOO much more featuires than IE.

  25. #150
    Non-Member marchukt's Avatar
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    by the way, how do you change your avatar picture to something of your own? pm me plz/ thx


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