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  1. #101
    SitePoint Member seomaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by creedence
    first of all choose your domain rigjht! is better if include your key word, for exemple if your key word is cosmetic surgery you could choose something like cosmetic-surgery-doctors.com/info/org !got it?
    It's not working anymore the trick with keywords in the domain. Google doesn't pay attention to that. Content & very good back links from relevant sites is King and Google watch this!

  2. #102
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    An alternative to *Content Content Content!*

    fatnewt (and [many] others) are of course correct in that great content will lead to people linking to your pages and the generation of high pagerank. There are other ways of getting your links, though. Look at http://www.cocacola.com - no SEO, and it's built entirely in Flash. Yet it's at the top of a search for "Cola", probably due to 1800-odd inbound links. Just goes to show, a massive brand can do the job better than any amount of content.

    Of course, "filling your website with great content" might be a slightly easier method of achieving high rankings than "making yourself a household name brand".

  3. #103
    I am obstructing justice. bronze trophy fatnewt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenric
    fatnewt (and [many] others) are of course correct in that great content will lead to people linking to your pages and the generation of high pagerank. There are other ways of getting your links, though. Look at http://www.cocacola.com - no SEO, and it's built entirely in Flash. Yet it's at the top of a search for "Cola", probably due to 1800-odd inbound links. Just goes to show, a massive brand can do the job better than any amount of content.
    Actually this is a fabulous example of my point, rather than a contradiction.

    Coca-Cola's site has no SEO. And I wasn't talking about having indexable content specifically... I was talking about having content that is worthy of ranking highly for a term.

    And when it comes to Cola, Coca-Cola's an obvious choice for a top spot.

    Google's method of figuring this out was by external links... but that's only a method of determing which page is most relevant to the term. In this case, it succeeded by returning what most of us would agree is one of the most relevant sites.

    Other times it fails, but even if links become useless for this purpose, Coca-Cola will still rank highly in whatever new engine follows.
    Colin Temple [twitter: @cailean]
    Web Analyst at Napkyn


  4. #104
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    It seems like these days the best way to get a high rank is to either be a .edu or .org site or have lots of links from sites with high page rank such as this one.

    Forums and mailing lists are usually highly ranked due to the fact that they will naturally be more authorative than sites merely trying to sell to you. Add a signature, keep your posts useful (ie don't spam) and keep helping communities related to your site and eventually you'll find you get some pretty high rankings.

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  5. #105
    I am obstructing justice. bronze trophy fatnewt's Avatar
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    I don't see why the domain would have an effect on SE rankings.... Maybe .edu since requirements might make sites somewhat more credible, but other than that it just doesn't make sense.

    It might seem like they rank better because .edu and legitimate organizations might be able to acquire more links from supporters than a business would.

    I don't think forums are more highly ranked for that reason either... because anyone can post and add links, it's more likely to be a source of spam in an SEs eyes. Not to say that SEs discredit forum links or have any problem with them, but I don't see why that kind of bias would be implemented. It wouldn't do much for the relevancy of results.

    Many forums are there to sell something, or are a part of a commercial site. Many .com sites are not selling anything, or do not focus on sales. It doesn't make sense for SEs to apply such arbitrary factors to results... at least in any significant way.
    Colin Temple [twitter: @cailean]
    Web Analyst at Napkyn


  6. #106
    He's No Good To Me Dead silver trophybronze trophy stymiee's Avatar
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    I agree. The domain extension has no relevance in a web page's ranking.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatnewt
    I don't see why the domain would have an effect on SE rankings.... Maybe .edu since requirements might make sites somewhat more credible, but other than that it just doesn't make sense.

    It might seem like they rank better because .edu and legitimate organizations might be able to acquire more links from supporters than a business would.
    There are some observers, including myself that believe that Google include the domain as part of the importance factor for a site. There are plenty of examples of .gov, .edu etc sites that have no links from external sites and few internal links but still rank #1 in searches for particular (popular) keywords.

    My argument for forums and related (wikis, mail archives etc) is this - Due to most forums being a useful area to ask questions and find answers they tend to be linked to by many sites. Hence they will rank more highly and pass that ranking on to your site if you have been linked to from the forum. In saying that I am totally disregarding any penalties Google may have applied to certain sites.

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  8. #108
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    I find that domains tend to have an impact when you are doing optimization for biotech type firms...it is hard to beat out a lot of the university research sites and goverment agency sites.

    I think the reason is partially because of the extensions, but it has more ot do with the fact that they've been around for a log time and are places where researchers go to look for info, upon finding that info they are likely to link to it.

  9. #109
    I am obstructing justice. bronze trophy fatnewt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultk
    There are some observers, including myself that believe that Google include the domain as part of the importance factor for a site. There are plenty of examples of .gov, .edu etc sites that have no links from external sites and few internal links but still rank #1 in searches for particular (popular) keywords.
    Do you have evidence of domains being a factor? Anything conclusive?

    I could see the reasoning behind .gov and .edu sites being given a little push, since they're usually decent sources.... but not .org. And I've never seen evidence of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultk
    My argument for forums and related (wikis, mail archives etc) is this - Due to most forums being a useful area to ask questions and find answers they tend to be linked to by many sites. Hence they will rank more highly and pass that ranking on to your site if you have been linked to from the forum. In saying that I am totally disregarding any penalties Google may have applied to certain sites.
    But forums don't get any special bonus for being a forum... it just happens to be a type of site that people would readily link to if they're a member of that community.

    Nothing special.
    Colin Temple [twitter: @cailean]
    Web Analyst at Napkyn


  10. #110
    He's No Good To Me Dead silver trophybronze trophy stymiee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultk
    There are some observers, including myself that believe that Google include the domain as part of the importance factor for a site. There are plenty of examples of .gov, .edu etc sites that have no links from external sites and few internal links but still rank #1 in searches for particular (popular) keywords.
    In Google it almost impossible to know exactly how many links a site has pointing to it. This is because Google only reports incomming links by page, not by site. So, a school or gov't website may have few links pointing to its homepage, but lots of links pointing to subpages (which is typically the case). These pages channel their PR to the homepage thus improving its ranking. It's very common and almost certainly the case as .edu and .gov sites are typically good sources of information and thus linked to frequently.

  11. #111
    SitePoint Zealot Dano's Avatar
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    FENRIC:

    Look at http://www.cocacola.com - no SEO, and it's built entirely in Flash. Yet it's at the top of a search for "Cola", probably due to 1800-odd inbound links. Just goes to show, a massive brand can do the job better than any amount of content.
    How much companies have those millions to invest on offline marketing?

    Similar case:
    Hewlett-Packard (hp.com):
    I cant say that it has no SEO, and its not built in flash. but i have to say that the 44200 links pointing to them are not a result from a SEO campaign. Instead i see as a result of the amount of money they invest offline. This is what happen with international brands.

    You will find links to coca cola from bloggers, designers, advertising/marketing/public relations/design agencies, lawers, universities, individual people doing anything, governments, flash portals..... even from "examples of bad sites".

    You search for "cola" and find coca cola.
    I search for "packard" and find hp.
    Its the same aproach. You could say "well. You have al lot of colas but only one packard", but this would deviate the point.

    The point is: do it cheaper.

    Once, when i was a student, we were debating about naming (how to choose the name of a given company when we create it).
    I remember myself saying "hewlett-packard (nothing more difficult) did nothing about this".
    The Professor (he has worked for companies like Unilever) answer as i did at the beggining:
    "How much companies have those millions to invest offline marketing?"

    I think those millions are the key "content".
    ---
    Dano De Weert
    ---

  12. #112
    SitePoint Zealot Dano's Avatar
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    A NOTE ABOUT DOMAIN NAMES AND PR:

    I have no evidence to say that domain factor increase PR.
    But consider this non real example:

    a domain like: www.badsites.com
    -title tag "the best site to find bad sites"
    -Maybe (highly probable) you can find a lot of keywords within, related to badsites. for example "bad site of the week" "real very bad sites" as sections.
    And within the content "badsites show and explain you why these sites are bad sites, etcetera..."
    -higly probable that links pointing to www.badsites.com, in the anchor tag says exactly "bad sites" or "wacht out the bad sites" or "the site of the bad sites".

    Following a line from my last post - about naming as a fundamental - you dont have to explain what is the site about, nor controlling (so much) what is the anchor text on the links to you from other sites.

    I suppose that the most people that link to your site will write some of your keywords in the anchor text. This will not happen if the site domain about bad sites is www.robertsmith.com.
    ---
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    ---

  13. #113
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano
    I suppose that the most people that link to your site will write some of your keywords in the anchor text. This will not happen if the site domain about bad sites is www.robertsmith.com.
    Off Topic:

    Of course not, he's in the Cure!

  14. #114
    SitePoint Zealot wineo's Avatar
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    I used this page when I first started looking at optimising my pages for search engines...

    http://forums.seochat.com/t14077/s.h...ee+directories


  15. #115
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    Page Rank is not everything..... A high pr with not a lot of anchor text wont get you far. However by having a few good links you can do the rest with page bulk. Absolute linking with the keyphrase contained inside the anchor text.

  16. #116
    SitePoint Evangelist Expressweb's Avatar
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    yes adviser .. As far as my Expereicne is been concern if you're content is Good and then you can easily get top ranking in 44,000 Competitino too

    like our website has for keyword 'seo adviser'
    www.rrwdg.com

  17. #117
    I am obstructing justice. bronze trophy fatnewt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dano
    A NOTE ABOUT DOMAIN NAMES AND PR:

    I have no evidence to say that domain factor increase PR.
    To be clear, your domain name does not increase your PR (Google PageRank).

    PageRank (PR) is a numerical value that is derived solely from the links that are pointing to your site -- based of of the PR of those pages linking to you.

    PageRank is not created through keywords, and in no way do keywords or domain names effect the way PR is assigned to any pages.


    .... that said, having keywords in your domain does increase the chances that your page will be linked to with keywords as anchor text. This does not affect PR, but it does contribute to your final ranking on a results page (in a way similar to PR).
    Colin Temple [twitter: @cailean]
    Web Analyst at Napkyn


  18. #118
    SitePoint Enthusiast Mowser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatnewt
    Many .com sites are not selling anything, or do not focus on sales. It doesn't make sense for SEs to apply such arbitrary factors to results... at least in any significant way.
    I think that it is in Googles interests to identify commercial sites and possibly apply a dampening factor to them so as to encourage them to use Adwords.

    Although many .com sites are not commercial, I'd say that that most businesses ideally choose a .com for their domain name. Google would want these commercial sites to be using Adwords and so a small penalty would make complete sense to me. I guess they would have to weigh up pro's and con's of penalising non commercial .com's and stimulating Adwords usage (and maintaining revalent results). Bottom line is that Google wants to make cash for its new shareholders.

    I'm not saying that's what's happening, just my thoughts.

  19. #119
    I am obstructing justice. bronze trophy fatnewt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mowser
    I think that it is in Googles interests to identify commercial sites and possibly apply a dampening factor to them so as to encourage them to use Adwords.
    It's in Google's interest to provide its users with the most relevant results. There's been no evidence of them holding back commercial sites to strong-arm them into buying Adwords. They shouldn't, and they probably never will.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mowser
    Although many .com sites are not commercial, I'd say that that most businesses ideally choose a .com for their domain name.
    True. But because all A are B does not mean all B are A.

    Google can't assume based on domain name... that would hurt relevancy.

    Even sites with commercial aspects to them aren't always just corporate or sales sites.

    My sites are mostly .com's... and many of them are content-focused with ads.

    Sitepoint is a great resource that should be listed highly for many terms... although Sitepoint has its business side, should it be held back? It's one of the best Webmaster resources out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mowser
    a small penalty would make complete sense to me
    I'd doubt it. I think it would hurt relevancy. For one, if spammers found up, they'd go buying .org and .net names, and the results would be less relevant because the legitimate sites would be held back.
    Colin Temple [twitter: @cailean]
    Web Analyst at Napkyn


  20. #120
    SitePoint Enthusiast Mowser's Avatar
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    I think that it is in googles interests to identify commercial sites and encourage them to use adwords, ideally with maintaining search revalency.

    The fact that many commercial sites are on .com's should not be overlooked. Thinking about it, other factors would probably also be considered but a .com domain could be one of those factors.

    Again, I am not saying this is the case at the moment or will be in the future. I'm just pointing out the fact that it is a possibility.

  21. #121
    I am obstructing justice. bronze trophy fatnewt's Avatar
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    It's a good point to mention, mind you. I've often wondered about SEs and their possible motives in getting people to buy into their paid programs.

    Yahoo! was one that I questioned in particular -- you could buy your way into the regular index with Overture SiteMatch and then PPC... but also get listed for free and pay nothing, regardless of what kind of site you have.
    Colin Temple [twitter: @cailean]
    Web Analyst at Napkyn


  22. #122
    SitePoint Zealot Dano's Avatar
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    fatnewt:
    having keywords in your domain does increase the chances that your page will be linked to with keywords as anchor text. This does not affect PR, but it does contribute to your final ranking on a results page (in a way similar to PR).
    i agree. thats what i said (or i tried).
    ---
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  23. #123
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    > If only it were that simple... Good luck getting a decent ranking without actively trying to improve it. A site with quality content will make getting good rankings MUCH easier but its definitely not enough.

    I agree. There's a big myth going around that if you just create a nice site, people will magically start linking to it. No they won't, if they don't know it exists. It's a shame people are told this, since it builds the false hope that all they need to do is write good articles, use an eye-pleasing design, etc. None of that matters until somebody finds the site.

    You could open a restaurant with the best food in the world, but if it was in an unmarked building at the end of a long dirt road, and you did no advertising, how many people would eat there? Yet McDonald's with its gourmet cuisine does lots of business.

    Or you could write the world's greatest novel, but if the only copy of it is on your desk, nobody will ever know about it.

  24. #124
    He's No Good To Me Dead silver trophybronze trophy stymiee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaFlyer
    > There's a big myth going around that if you just create a nice site, people will magically start linking to it. No they won't, if they don't know it exists. It's a shame people are told this, since it builds the false hope that all they need to do is write good articles, use an eye-pleasing design, etc. None of that matters until somebody finds the site.
    It is not a myth. It is reality. I've done it (SEO'd a site over a year and a half ago and it is still going up in rankings and I haven't touched it in that time). Others have done it as well (I dare you to tell aspen this isn't possible). It's a simple concept really and it makes sense. Build a well designed site (from both a seo and usability perspective) with great content and you will do well. Webmasters will voluntarily link to other sites without a reciprocal link when they find a site they consider to be exceptional. Happens every day. The proper content combined with appropriate markup is the ultimate in search engine friendliness. No link campaign or seo tricks can beat it in long term results.

  25. #125
    I am obstructing justice. bronze trophy fatnewt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaFlyer
    You could open a restaurant with the best food in the world, but if it was in an unmarked building at the end of a long dirt road, and you did no advertising
    You could make that restaurant a hit with PR... advertising isn't necessary.

    That's not as off-topic as it seems... the Web is about word-of-mouth more than anything. You obviously need to get the word out somehow--tell someone that the site is there. But it can take off with just a couple of links, a couple of directory listings, or even just a press release.

    Most of my sites, for example, aren't advertised. Most of them started off with just a few directory listings, and my links here. Now, they're not huge, but they get a good amount of traffic (and generate a good amount of income.)

    Of course, promotion and additional effort would increase that, but, like stymiee, I've acquired many links with no effort on my part.

    If you spend time developing high-quality content, you're going to make your site a more useful tool for you -- whether you're a media source or selling a product.

    Of course SEO helps. Of course PR helps. Advertising helps too.

    But the effectiveness of those things leaps exponentially if you have a site worthy of attention. Plus, you'll need to spend less time maintaining your traffic.
    Colin Temple [twitter: @cailean]
    Web Analyst at Napkyn



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