SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Results 1 to 15 of 15

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Posts
    34
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi guys,

    How's it going? Tonight I had a client come over, my first official one to finish up an extensive web site that I had built for him. Most of the night in which was supposed to be spent filling in the content of his site was spent with him basically having me show him how to do things on the site. The reason I didnt mind showing how to do things was because I was going to provide training to him anyway so I thought I killed two birds with one stone. Anyway, to make a long story short it got late and he said how about he works on this at home. I said sure and burnt him a CD-ROM with his web site on it because he said he couldnt work without seeing the site. Anyhow the reason I burned the site was because he was supposed to have a check for the final payment of the site with him. As it turns out he had no check, so I was basically handing a guy an entire site without final payment. While the CD was burning I told my dad what was going on, so he approached the guy in general conversation about how I felt, because being young I couldnt bring myself to the talking myself.

    He said that I have nothing to worry about to both myself and my dad and that I would be paid. My concern is though that even though he has a respectable business is that he will walk awway with a site that I labored on without me seeing final payment. So, do you more experienced web masters think I just screwed up big time, or do you think I'll be ok?

    Thanks for reading and i'm sorry for the long story but I just needed to get this off of my chest,

    Chad

  2. #2
    SitePoint Guru sowen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Stockport, UK
    Posts
    729
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi chadl,

    The world of business to business generally runs on a trust relationship. Although it might seem otherwise the vast majority of the business community and general population are honest, or at least semi-honest people .

    If you havenít already done so type up an invoice, and you MUST put this or something similar (and legal for your country) at the bottom "goods remain the property of you until paid for in full" Speak to you client and arrange a time convenient to you both to go and collect your cheque. As a safe guard burn another copy of the site and put it somewhere safe - this will have all the file creation properties and background stuff that never gets uploaded thus proving you did the work.

    Regards and good luck

  3. #3
    Bored One boredboi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Posts
    238
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    don't worry about things when they haven't happened
    anyway, its good to make mistakes now and then.

    if he does walk away without paying you, then question yourself... is money really what you're after? the only thing you want? if not, then treat it as a wonderful experience and leave it be. if it is, then don't commit the same mistake again.

  4. #4
    SitePoint Wizard creole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Nashvegas Baby!
    Posts
    7,845
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Which is not to say that you shouldn't fight for the money that you have rightfully earned. I would agree with the other guys, most people are honest. It's just the few scumbags out there that make us distrustful.

    Besides, verbal agreements are binding in most states (you USA?) Have you and he agreed on a price for your services?
    Adobe Certified Coldfusion MX 7 Developer
    Adobe Certified Advanced Coldfusion MX Developer
    My Blog (new) | My Family | My Freelance | My Recipes

  5. #5
    Procrastinator Extraordinaire lucas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Springfield, Missouri, U.S.A.
    Posts
    320
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    small claims court is only 15 dollars (filing fee) away

    don't worry about it though, as long as you agreed on a price your good to go.

  6. #6
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Posts
    34
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks guys. I do have a signed contract with him stating that all work is mine until final payment, but I've been screwed in the past hence the reason I'm so hesitant.

    Your responses sure made me feel better though.

    Thanks,

    Chad

  7. #7
    ********* Addict jaiem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    New York, USA
    Posts
    1,006
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    He may have the website, but does he have access to the server?
    Ocean View Host - Affordable web hosting plans for any business.
    Modern Technology, Old Fashioned Value & Service!
    U.S. Merchant Services - Reliable merchant account services for all business!
    Quality People Providing A Quality Service!

  8. #8
    One website at a time mmj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Melbourne Australia
    Posts
    6,282
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well actually it really is not likely that he will not pay.

    You just have to be patient. As long as you still are in contact with this client all is fine.

    If you are not still in contact, follow up with a phone call or email after a few days, then if no payment, follow up with additional phone call a few days after that. Keep going...

    Make sure the client knows you are serious about it.

    Basically you just need to trust him. It's most likely that you will get paid - although it may be a while. It could even be weeks. Don't be too hasty, but keep in contact until you are paid.

  9. #9
    ComDude CryingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    I don't know the cat drug it in!!!
    Posts
    247
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Contracts with minors are not leagally binding. As a minor you cannot enter into a contract. I have had this discussion before in other forums.

    Now with that said it seems your dad is trying to help you out. Well he would be able to sign a contract with a client so that it would be leagally binding.

    Now for the really sticky situation. I am not going to say that your client would do this. But there are somethings he could do to turn the tables sort of speak. I.E. getting the IRS involved in which your parents would then be involved. Or checking state and local laws on businesses and usually you need a business license in anycase. I am not lucky to be one of those ones who have lived anywhere where I didn't need one.

    Now with all this said, my advice would be this. First, give it time. Maybe your clent wasn't just putting you off. Business can sometimes move a little slow when it comes to things like this. Be patent and if he doesnt' pay you then present him with a bill/invoice. Keep the pressure going on this just like a collection agency. Call, write etc... Just remember don't harass!!! (you can get into real trouble with that one. Second, your dad seems like a really cool dad and he seems like he wants to help you. Well make sure to have a contract that is leaglly binding!!! This would involve getting your parents involved in some for or another. You would need a signiture of a parent or guardian. This of course doesnt' help with this clent. Third, Small claims could work. I think I have seen this work for minors??? I wish you luck if you choose that course. Forth, copyright!!! don't release the copyright to the client until final payment. Did you put any copyright on any of this work? And if you did did you put your client as the copyright holder??? If so you maybe SOL on that point but it is still a thought. If you put no copyright on the work what so ever then it is still copyrighted to you!!! You don't have to put copyright blah blah. The minute you create an intellectual property then you own it and no one can claim it as thier own. Some of this can be a little grey so it helps to research here. Last, write it off, learn a lesson, and have your parents involved on all future contracts with your client. Never just do a verbal contract. The he said she said never works. Always have a paper contract. No getting around what is in the contract.

    P.S. because it is so easy and automatic always put a copyright on your work. Then don't change that copyright until you get paid!!! May not help in all situations but it by no means can hurt.

    Hope this helps???

    Late
    body { background:#000000; color:#000000 }
    HEY, WHO TURNED OUT THE LIGHTS?!?
    Easy come easy go!!!
    CryingWolf

  10. #10
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Posts
    34
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Actually I am of legal age. Just turned 19. The reason I reffered to myself as so young is because that the other webmasters he said he spoke with were in their 30's.

  11. #11
    The Hiding One lynlimz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    2,103
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I have this web project on. The company talked abotu everything, except payment =)
    He said the amount didn't matter..
    Was he hoping for a few hundred dollar payment? I was looking at a few thousands.
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
    -- Albert Einstein

  12. #12
    ComDude CryingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    I don't know the cat drug it in!!!
    Posts
    247
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by chadl
    Actually I am of legal age. Just turned 19. The reason I reffered to myself as so young is because that the other webmasters he said he spoke with were in their 30's.
    And you said you had a signed contract right??? If so, well there ya go. I would give the client time to pay you. Send him an invoice etc. Be patent. If alot of time goes by then remind him of the contract. Then you could take him to court. But this will also take from your pocket too. The contract is legal and binding as long as both parties follow the contract. Any party that fails (i.e. in this case your client with the payment) is a breach of contract!!! The law is on your side!!!

    Again with all this said, and the optimist in me comes out, give your client the benefit of the doubt! He could have legitly forgotten the check. And he of course doesn't want to pay out from his own pocket. Better to put it in the books and pay you from the business accounts!!! etc...

    P.S. You said you gave him all this on a cd. That would tell me he either has a webserver or a hosting service. Maybe he really just wants to make sure the site will work ok??? Sort of a final approval thing???


    I still say though that your parents sound cool with your dad helping by asking about being paid etc
    Last edited by CryingWolf; Mar 17, 2001 at 09:29.
    body { background:#000000; color:#000000 }
    HEY, WHO TURNED OUT THE LIGHTS?!?
    Easy come easy go!!!
    CryingWolf

  13. #13
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    32
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi Chad:

    You just recieved a valuable lesson in Life 101 and
    Business 101.

    If you learned from it, it was a very cheap lesson.

    If you're going to design web pages, always have
    a binding contract.

    Always take at least 1/2 upon signing the contract.

    We've all been in your shoes and it takes courage to
    share your learning experience with the rest of us.

    Good Luck and go get them.

    See you on the web
    http://www.webpro4u.com
    Paul Ellis
    editor/publisher
    "Web Dogs"
    http://www.webpro4u.com

  14. #14
    ComDude CryingWolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    I don't know the cat drug it in!!!
    Posts
    247
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by lynlimz
    I have this web project on. The company talked abotu everything, except payment =)
    He said the amount didn't matter..
    Was he hoping for a few hundred dollar payment? I was looking at a few thousands.
    Contracts, contracts, contracts!!! Always discuss the green and make sure to put it in the contract!!! Along with maybe a clause on incidentals for changes in direction etc..

    And no I am not a contracts lawyer!!!

    The biggest problem I see with some of this stuff like client thinking hundreds and you thinking thousands, is that there are webdesigners that way undercut themselves just to get a client!!! A lot of these are very young or new designers who will be willing to make even under minimum wage just to have the client.
    Last edited by CryingWolf; Mar 17, 2001 at 09:41.
    body { background:#000000; color:#000000 }
    HEY, WHO TURNED OUT THE LIGHTS?!?
    Easy come easy go!!!
    CryingWolf

  15. #15
    The Hiding One lynlimz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    2,103
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yep.
    I understand.
    I'm sending them a few documents to sign in the next few days =)
    "Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
    -- Albert Einstein


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •