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  1. #1
    SitePoint Enthusiast
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    Here's a fun story, (with pictures):
    A friend of mine, Kevin Hardy, is a print and web designer. [Load his page to see picture #1 in this story, http://www.kevinhardydesign.com ] Some time ago, a potential client found Kevin's page and bookmarked it for possible future contact. Today, that client was browsing online and came across a site that made him think, "I've seen something like this before." After comparing this new-found site with those in his bookmarks, the client felt the need to bring to Kevin's attention this site, [Load page for picture #2 http://www.virtualsignal.com ].
    So, my friends, what do you think of that?! Kevin will be following through on this, but I'm certainly interested in all your reactions. Please note though, sinece Kevin will be dealing with this, don't contact Mr. Joe McCorkle. I'll certainly let you all know how this plays out.
    Marty P


    "Speak as though I know nothing but am capable of understanding everything."

  2. #2
    SitePoint Wizard westmich's Avatar
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    The copyright notice on the alleged copycat's site pre-dates your friend's notice.
    Westmich
    Smart Web Solutions for Smart Clients
    http://www.mindscapecreative.com

  3. #3
    exit();
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    That is pretty bad..

    If he took that to court (only if they refused to take the copied site down) I'm 100% sure he'd win the case!

  4. #4
    Nice Mug jer's Avatar
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    westmich: are you trying to say the "alleged copycat" is actually the one having his site copied? I'd hope not.. since if that were the case then I'm guessing he would actually have all the pages linked to on the site -- I get 404's everywhere. Also, if you look at kevin's site and click "Legal" you'll see that he hasn't updated his copyright date on there, so it still reads 2000. I think it should read 2000-2001 on the main page shouldn't it?

    just wanting to clear things up, hope things work out.
    Jeremy Watts :: Co-Founder
    Modevia Web Services :: Experience the Difference.

  5. #5
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    Ya I've noticed such blatant fraud a few times. One time I called the guy being scammed up and told him about it. I really hate such people - and I really hate spammers. And it was a spammer and a guy who ripped off other's sites so I felt the need to take personal attention
    Chris Beasley - I publish content and ecommerce sites.
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  6. #6
    ********* Callithumpian silver trophy freakysid's Avatar
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    traceroute shows that virtualsignal is hosted on http://neubayern.net/ which appears to be a tiny ISP. So your friend might want to contact the ISP. Here's their whois info

    Registrant:
    Christopher Mende (NEUBAYERN-DOM)
    1075 War Eagle Drive North
    Colorado Springs, CO 80919
    US

    Domain Name: NEUBAYERN.NET

    Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Billing Contact:
    Mende, Christopher (CM8468) csmende@KRAINA.NET
    Mende
    1075 War Eagle Drive North
    Colorado Springs, CO 80919
    719-264-8132

    Record last updated on 06-Oct-2000.
    Record expires on 10-Jul-2001.
    Record created on 10-Jul-1998.
    Database last updated on 8-Mar-2001 00:09:00 EST.

    Domain servers in listed order:

    NS.NEUBAYERN.NET 63.227.137.210
    NS.KRAINA.NET 24.182.251.75
    NERC1.NERC.COM 205.247.120.1

  7. #7
    SitePoint Wizard westmich's Avatar
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    Originally posted by jer
    westmich: are you trying to say the "alleged copycat" is actually the one having his site copied? I'd hope not.. since if that were the case then I'm guessing he would actually have all the pages linked to on the site -- I get 404's everywhere. Also, if you look at kevin's site and click "Legal" you'll see that he hasn't updated his copyright date on there, so it still reads 2000. I think it should read 2000-2001 on the main page shouldn't it?

    just wanting to clear things up, hope things work out.
    I am not trying to say anything. I don't know any of the parties involved or what has really happened, so I used the word alleged.

    There are two copyright notices. This should be easy enough to look up, I would think.

    I would also think that in a court case that who ever copyrighted the material first will win.
    Westmich
    Smart Web Solutions for Smart Clients
    http://www.mindscapecreative.com

  8. #8
    SitePoint Enthusiast norfett's Avatar
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    all i get for virtual signal is a error 403 forbidden
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  9. #9
    Bimbo With A Brain! silver trophy Saz's Avatar
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    Yeah, I get that too, Norfett. Has the guy taken it down I wonder??



    Saz

    The Postfive Website
    Postfive Publishing

  10. #10
    ********* Callithumpian silver trophy freakysid's Avatar
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    Originally posted by westmich
    I would also think that in a court case that who ever copyrighted the material first will win.
    I'm afraid I don't agree with you there Westmitch. AFAIK, you don't "copyright" material. Copyright just is! The creater of intelectual property by law has copyright over that property and that's that. The act of creating the intelectual property automatically means the creator has copyrigh (ie, legal ownership). I'm pretty sure that this is a fairly universal interpretation of copyright because copyright is defined in international conventions.

    My post here is my intellectual property. I own the copyright by default. However, I would not be surprised if when I joined this forum - and agreed to the terms of use - I waived my right to that copyright and transfered ownership of my posts to Sitepoint. It is worth noting that some free web hosts have in their terms of use a clause which transfers ownership of your material posted on their web server to them! Yeah, maybe some ppl might want to go over their hosting contract and double check!

    The copyright statement is just to let people know that "Hey, I claim that I own the copyright to this material which I created in year XXXX". The year is relevent because copyright has a statutory limitation of - blah, I dunno - something like 50 years (I think this varies from country to country). But in court no judge is going to accept your statement of fact just because you say its true

    It may be that, in court, the judge may take note of the date of the copyright notices, but I doubt she/he would put much weight on them because they prove nothing. If the creator of the artwork can provide sufficient evidence that demonstrated they were the creator, the judge would (I think) be swayed more by that. Evidence might be photoshop files showind the development of the concepts, prototypes, paper sketches, emails to collegues discussing the work, etc.

    <edit>

    I just looked at the Sitepoint guidlines http://www.sitepointforums.com/misc....ion=guidelines Sitepoint doesn't seem to go so far as to require transfer of copyright, but reserves the right to quote your posts (with credit for authorship). That's a pretty decent deal

    REPUBLISHING YOUR WORDS
    We know that your words are filled with knowledge of how things work in the real word, because of this we have dedicated ourselves to bringing the best of our community to a larger audience. We do this by including links to your posts throughout the network and using discussion topics for the basis of new articles and features. We also reserve the right to quote your discussion forum posts in newsletters, throughout the SitePoint network and in SitePoint promotions. When republishing your quotes for wide distribution, we will identify you only by your SPF member name. We promise to be sensitive in this effort. We will not republish anything you write that we think could be deemed personally endangering, inflammatory or embarrassing to you without your consent.
    Last edited by freakysid; Mar 8, 2001 at 04:50.

  11. #11
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    Interesting,.. it does appear that virtual signal is down now. I just gotta wonder how long it had been up before anyone noticed it, and if the copycat received any work or inquiries because of it. I suppose that since it was just a front page it's unlikely anyone would have tried to hire the guy, but if that could be determined, I wonder if kevin would be entitled to some sort of recompense.
    marty_p

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  12. #12
    Almeaty Member
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    nothing new to me. have a look at pixelcore.com and there check out the rip reports. it could be possible that even the sitepoint design has been ripped somewhere

  13. #13
    chown linux:users\ /world Hartmann's Avatar
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    I keep getting a 403 Error on the second site

  14. #14
    SitePoint Member
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    In case you guys want to know, see attached email and reply



    Kevin,

    Thanks for your great detective work. I see your copyright notice
    on your website, and im sure im not the first to have downloaded it for evaluation purposes. It has been removed, sorry for the frustration. By the way, how DID you track it. just curious.


    On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, kevin@elevenmedia.com wrote:


    Mr Ballard and Mr. McCorkle

    In reference to: http://www.virtualsignal.com

    By reproducing the site design of kevinhardydesign.com you have violated the use of copyright protected material. As per the legal notice found at http://www.kevinhardydesign.com/LEGAL.html the images and design used on virtualsignal.com constitute copyright infringement.

    Please remove them at once

    Thank you
    _____________________________

    Kevin Hardy
    Creative Director

    Eleven Media
    http://www.elevenmedia.com
    _____________________
    designmachine.com


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