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  1. #76
    SitePoint Wizard megamanXplosion's Avatar
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    What would I do if a client asks for the site to look exactly the same in Opera 7.5/Firefox 0.9.1 and Netscape 4.x? I would probably recommend them to my competitors if they're not paying enough to be worth the effort. Sound silly? It really isn't. A crucial part of running a business in this market is choosing your customers. Customers who wish to have you expend an abnormal amount of effort for a near impossible task for a normal amount, are not customers that you should cater to because the next customer in line may have a task which only takes 1/4 of the time and you'll probably get paid more for that amount of time working with that client. While you are using less resources to make more money, you are also saving time which gives you more marketing possibilities and the ability to choose more customers. Why would I recommend the NN4 supporting clients to my competitors? Because competitors can be foolish when attempting to gain customers and may actually try to please this customer and not make much profit and it'll probably hold them back from marketing, while I'm spending less resources and making more money and marketing more. You could be the best web developer in the world, but you'll fail in the market if you're foolish. Like I said, picking customers is an important role in running a business in this market.

    I would also recommend the advice of categorizing browsers into support groups depending on your clients demands. Typically I will actively make sites identical in Opera 7+ (Presto rendering engine), Firebird 0.7+ - Mozilla 1.4+ and Netscape 7+ (Gecko rendering engine), and Internet Explorer 5+ and all IE-clones (MSHTML rendering engine), and I use @import to link stylesheets to the page so that I need not mess with the ancient technology. The chances of a problem occuring for your visitors is slim to none and changes can always be made to accomodate visitors (sometimes it is better to have something not working, and when it is reported you actively fix it, making the users happier than they would be thinking that their browser is perfect and the page just happened to work correctly). Of course, that is my own categorization of browsers and yours may differ slightly or completely, it's up to you.


    Just my opinion on the matter

  2. #77
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    you can create exactly the same design, but not exactly all browsers. one of my pages supports 10 browsers. you will need several css hacks, htc for IE, etc.

    my "under developement" site supports: IE6, opera, firefox, mozilla, epiphany, galeon, kmeleon, konqueror, safari, netscape. maybe it supports much more, but we have only tested these browsers. I know a bug with Mac IE, I'm trying to fix it.

  3. #78
    SitePoint Enthusiast
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    I agree. Don't worry about having the web page display EXACTLY the same on every browser. It's never going to happen and the number of people using these other browsers is really minimal. Just make sure you design for 800x600 and Safari or IE5 on OS X. That should cover you for most browsers and learn CSS.
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  4. #79
    SitePoint Enthusiast
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    Again--thanks for all your help!
    Bob

  5. #80
    Non-Member Egor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ene
    you can create exactly the same design, but not exactly all browsers. one of my pages supports 10 browsers. you will need several css hacks, htc for IE, etc.

    my "under developement" site supports: IE6, opera, firefox, mozilla, epiphany, galeon, kmeleon, konqueror, safari, netscape. maybe it supports much more, but we have only tested these browsers. I know a bug with Mac IE, I'm trying to fix it.
    Those are not the problematic browsers, the ones this thread is concerned about are ie4 and netcape 4 I think.

  6. #81
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    I think the WebDev world needs to stop catering to really old browsers. We NEED to force people to upgrade!

    It seems that many people who need to upgrade do not, due to the fact that they do not know they NEED to. If all us WedDevs do not atleast add a home page that tells people they should think about a browser upgrade, I fear we will be doomed to forever pre-antiquate our sites in the name of customer compliance.

  7. #82
    SitePoint Wizard LiquidReflex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaudhand
    I think the WebDev world needs to stop catering to really old browsers. We NEED to force people to upgrade!

    It seems that many people who need to upgrade do not, due to the fact that they do not know they NEED to. If all us WedDevs do not atleast add a home page that tells people they should think about a browser upgrade, I fear we will be doomed to forever pre-antiquate our sites in the name of customer compliance.
    It would be nice if this philosophy would work, but unfortunately I don't think it would. The only way would be if every single website out there was updated to use some bit of new technology that is completely broken in those older browsers. If you create a page using tables and font tags your page will look just fine in Netscape 4x ... and there are plenty of people out there that do just that. The only thing it will accomplish is the user will visit the site that is broken on their browser, leave, and find one that works instead. This may not be a big deal for some sites, but for any site dependent on as many visitors as possible (like e-commerce sites), you don't want to turn ANY possible customers away. Telling the customer that you HAVE TO upgrade your browser before I will LET YOU buy from this site is not going to produce a sale. So unfortunately, those sites still need to care about the old browsers to reach them (if it's in their target market). I wouldn't say obsess about it, but I think businesses would rather be safe than sorry when their income depends on it. IMO.
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  8. #83
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    http://www.lizshomes.com


  9. #84
    Non-Member Egor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lizsidoro
    Grr... self promotion

  10. #85
    SitePoint Enthusiast trigxine's Avatar
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    The problem with just abandoning a browser like you suggest is that for every browser you leave behind, there IS someone who uses it. For example, what if I'm browsing a site on a cell phone or Sidekick? Those aren't outdated browsers, but they're simplistic in the ways that they render pages. A lot of issues older browsers might have may be reflected in perhaps dated, perhaps overly simple cell browsers. Ditto for a lot of other platforms.. for example, some blade systems with thin clients run forms of browsers that are old. Businesses might use them because they're cheap, and they might serve their purposes. But if these clients are deployed across an enterprise environment and you just ignore their browser quirks, then that's a whole lot of people you're screwing over right there.

    You can't force them to upgrade by making your site unusable. That'll just mean they go elsewhere to find what you're offering.


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