SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 65
  1. #26
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Maine USA
    Posts
    3,781
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Simply put Moore has bested us all. We now have to see his flick so that we can argue about it in an intelligent manner and given that this is an election year, we all know this movie will be extensively talked about. He has created a movie that a great segment of the population will hate and think is a load of manure, but will still see simply to be able to point out how "wrong" they think it is. That is pure genius from a marketing standpoint. As an added bonus, he might just achieve his goal of affecting the outcome of the election.
    Ken Barbalace: EnvironmentalChemistry.com (Blog, Careers)
    InternetSAR.org
    Volunteers Assist Search and Rescue via Internet
    My Firefox Theme: Classic Compact
    Based onFirefox's default theme but uses much less window space

  2. #27
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy someonewhois's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,364
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Subhadip
    money and publicity
    What more would he want?

  3. #28
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Maine USA
    Posts
    3,781
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by someonewhois
    What more would he want?
    To evict a certain tenant from their historically importent abode?
    Ken Barbalace: EnvironmentalChemistry.com (Blog, Careers)
    InternetSAR.org
    Volunteers Assist Search and Rescue via Internet
    My Firefox Theme: Classic Compact
    Based onFirefox's default theme but uses much less window space

  4. #29
    Yugo full of anvils bronze trophy hillsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    :noitacoL
    Posts
    1,859
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm not a fan of Michael Moore, even though I tend to agree with his political leanings. Bowling For Columbine was provably disingenuous.
    that's me!
    Now A Pom. And a Plone Nut
    Broccoli Martinez Airpark

  5. #30
    boiler up blackdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Purdue
    Posts
    1,181
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Wow. I go to a lot of message boards and this is by far the best thread on Fahrenheight 9/11. In most forums there's people yelling about how its BS and other people yelling about how its 100% truth.

    Glad to see people here realize that MM is an entertainer, not a journalist.

  6. #31
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Halmstad, Sweden
    Posts
    7,400
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by blackdog
    Wow. I go to a lot of message boards and this is by far the best thread on Fahrenheight 9/11. In most forums there's people yelling about how its BS and other people yelling about how its 100% truth.
    I know. Sitepoint rocks.
    Mattias Johansson
    Short, Swedish, Web Developer

    Buttons and Dog Tags with your custom design:
    FatStatement.com

  7. #32
    chown linux:users\ /world Hartmann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Houston, TX, USA
    Posts
    6,455
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Michael Moore has the right to say what he wants to say... However, I do not respect someone who could not respect the rules laid out at an awards ceremony (the Oscars). Everyone who would potentially be making a speech were specifically asked to not bring politics up, and yet Moore made an exception for himself. I have no respect for that whatsoever.

    As far as the movie goes, I didn't go to the theatre to see it but watched it at a friend's house and it was decent, as long as you form your own opinion from it.

  8. #33
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Maine USA
    Posts
    3,781
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hartmann
    As far as the movie goes, I didn't go to the theatre to see it but watched it at a friend's house and it was decent, as long as you form your own opinion from it.
    The most important thing with politics and the truth is to form your own opinion. The moment you start accepting someone elses word as the truth without questioning is the moment you begin to be deceived. In general those in power depend upon deception to do what they want. Knowledge and independant thinking is our only defense.
    Ken Barbalace: EnvironmentalChemistry.com (Blog, Careers)
    InternetSAR.org
    Volunteers Assist Search and Rescue via Internet
    My Firefox Theme: Classic Compact
    Based onFirefox's default theme but uses much less window space

  9. #34
    ********* Genius Mike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    5,458
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Hartmann
    However, I do not respect someone who could not respect the rules laid out at an awards ceremony (the Oscars). Everyone who would potentially be making a speech were specifically asked to not bring politics up, and yet Moore made an exception for himself. I have no respect for that whatsoever.

    I guess you have no respect for the Dixie Chicks either, then.
    Mike
    It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me.

  10. #35
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Halmstad, Sweden
    Posts
    7,400
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by KLB
    The most important thing with politics and the truth is to form your own opinion. The moment you start accepting someone elses word as the truth without questioning is the moment you begin to be deceived. In general those in power depend upon deception to do what they want. Knowledge and independant thinking is our only defense.
    Absolutely. Ironically, it's not as important who is right in a discussion, as it is important that the discussion takes place in the first place. Conflicting opinions that clash against generally generates something intellectually new and interesting. A public discussion also allows external listeners to form their own opinion.

    I don't have a particularly strong opinion of Moore either way, but one thing that I find really positive is that he initiates a debate. Debate almost* always rocks.


    * = In a small company or organization, debate sucks.
    Mattias Johansson
    Short, Swedish, Web Developer

    Buttons and Dog Tags with your custom design:
    FatStatement.com

  11. #36
    chown linux:users\ /world Hartmann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Houston, TX, USA
    Posts
    6,455
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by naramation
    I guess you have no respect for the Dixie Chicks either, then.
    Nope, none whatsoever. Though, their situation was a little different, but I still don't respect what they did.

  12. #37
    The short answer is yes... Herbster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Bay City, Oregon
    Posts
    715
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'll have to wait for the DVD.

    I don't know how anything can be said about the flick w/o being political. Is it based on facts or emotions? If it brings previously withheld facts to the publics' eye, it's worth seeing.

    For a non-political documentary, see Touch The Sky.

    P.S. Billy Bob rocks. A foul-mouthed, self-loathing, alchoholic, womanizing, criminal Santa. It was a hoot.

  13. #38
    boiler up blackdog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Purdue
    Posts
    1,181
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by naramation
    I guess you have no respect for the Dixie Chicks either, then.
    i wouldn't say i have no respect for the dixie chicks, but i will say i thought it was really dumb what they did. First, people paid money to see you play music not rant about politics.

    Second, I hate how celebs think they are so important that people should care what they think. Its one thing to think "well Bob supports _blank_ and I know Bob is a really well informed, level headed guy so maybe I should think about what he says."
    But its downright stupid to think "I like the dixie chicks music so I should care about their political views, even though I have no idea how well informed, smart or reasonable they are."
    I don't ever want to hear celebs rant about politics because I couldn't value their opinion less. I hope others feel the same.

  14. #39
    Non-Member coo_t2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Dog Street
    Posts
    1,819
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by blackdog

    Second, I hate how celebs think they are so important that people should care what they think. Its one thing to think "well Bob supports _blank_ and I know Bob is a really well informed, level headed guy so maybe I should think about what he says."
    But its downright stupid to think "I like the dixie chicks music so I should care about their political views, even though I have no idea how well informed, smart or reasonable they are."
    I don't ever want to hear celebs rant about politics because I couldn't value their opinion less. I hope others feel the same.
    Others don't feel the same. Haven't you noticed that in this country people care about every minute aspect of a celebrity's life. Hell, anymore you don't even need a talent to become a celebrity, people are first made into celebrities, then they find a "talent". This is because the public is so obsessed with celebrity -- they don't need to be particularly talented, the public just needs people to adulate or in some cases belittle.
    The public does care what celebrities say, we shouldn't give what they say anymore weight, but we do, well actually I don't, I think they all suck.

    --ed

  15. #40
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    172
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I just got back from it..and iI'm not really sure how I feel yet.
    ----
    Cheers, Jamie

  16. #41
    SitePoint Addict philipwhite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Chanhassen, MN
    Posts
    319
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    What does MM get out of it. Several million dollars so he can make more rubbish. I'm just saddened by the people that take it at face value or call it a documentary. Do some of your own reseach and don't take a known political activist's message at face value.

    And I thought bad santa was hilarious. Especially the term used to describe his member. I was dissapointed that the video store didnt have the unrated version though.

  17. #42
    SitePoint Wizard Aes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    3,392
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I liked the documentary. I also don't particularly like Bush nor his administration. I have not liked the past four years. That being said, I think it's a movie worth seeing, regardless of what political stance you have.
    Colin Anderson
    Ambition is a poor excuse for those without
    sense enough to be lazy.

  18. #43
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    East Lansing, MI USA
    Posts
    12,937
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by blackdog
    i wouldn't say i have no respect for the dixie chicks, but i will say i thought it was really dumb what they did. First, people paid money to see you play music not rant about politics.

    Second, I hate how celebs think they are so important that people should care what they think. Its one thing to think "well Bob supports _blank_ and I know Bob is a really well informed, level headed guy so maybe I should think about what he says."
    But its downright stupid to think "I like the dixie chicks music so I should care about their political views, even though I have no idea how well informed, smart or reasonable they are."
    I don't ever want to hear celebs rant about politics because I couldn't value their opinion less. I hope others feel the same.
    Reminds me of the Trapper Keeper 2000 episode of South Park. It nicely skewers both the 2000 election, and celebrities who butt into politics.
    Chris Beasley - I publish content and ecommerce sites.
    Featured Article: Free Comprehensive SEO Guide
    My Guide to Building a Successful Website
    My Blog|My Webmaster Forums

  19. #44
    SitePoint Wizard jag5311's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Somewhere in Indiana
    Posts
    3,082
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Michael Moore has the right to say what he wants to say... However, I do not respect someone who could not respect the rules laid out at an awards ceremony (the Oscars). Everyone who would potentially be making a speech were specifically asked to not bring politics up, and yet Moore made an exception for himself. I have no respect for that whatsoever.
    Couldn't agree more. I didn't see it live, but I watched a clip of it and was dumbfounded. I mean, you have a room full of celebs that are excited to be at an awards ceremony and all have acceptance speeches to give for whatever they have won, and then Michael Moore wins and you would think he would go up there and say soemthing like

    "And I want to thank my parents for yada yada and Mr. X and Mrs. Y for doing yada yada and my fans who have supported me yada yada.


    NAH

    he wants to just talk about his hatred for Bush and the war, etc...

    Wrong Venue, wrong time. Its one thing if its an open forum or something, but what sucked was he was FORCING everyone to have to listen to his politics, and I am sure there were alot that didn't give 2 sh*ts what he thoughts.

    So that left a bad taste in my mouth and I haven't respected him since. I haven't seen any of his movies, but I hate extremists. I feel that if you are an extremist, then it can cloud your judgement and thoughts and therefor have a more difficult time coming to terms with someone elses opinion.

    Same thing with the Dixie Chicks. If you hate the president, fine, so be it. But if you are a performer, you shouldn't use your power to force others to listen to your opinions about topics that your industry is not involved with. Its one thing if it was a song, but instead if was a statement. Tobey Keith, I think, made some pro american songs about the war and his love for the country. Nothing wrong with that, and if the Dixie Chicks had made a song about protesting the war, so be it, the only difference is if it was a popular song or if they wanted to play it just to get their political views in the open. But to stand in front of a microphone and say something like, "I am embarrassed that our President is from Texas and to say some other things" especially in front of a ton of fans who have paid good money to see them PERFORM and ENTERTAIN, that just isn't right.

    Our society values to many celebrities for God knows what reason. But it bothers me when people like Alec Baldwin or Barbera Streishand make statements and try to push their political agenda onto the public simply because they have the power to. I remember them both saying something like they will move out of America if Bush is elected President. I remember alot of people saying, "Bye". But are they living somewhere else? I don't know for a fact but I think they still live here.

    Why people obsess about a celeb and value their opinion over someone elses is beyond me. That is why I respect Celebrities like Ryan Phillipe and Reese Witherspoon, because they do their job, (acting and entertainment) and then they go home to their family and do business there. You don't find them at the Playboy mansion doing orgies, snorting coke, having 55 hour marriages and then getting them annuled, then marrying someone else a few months later because you are "in love" and have never met the guys kid (who also has a kid on the way) (*cough britney *cough)

    Sorry, I had to use that has a black and white example where Reese and Ryan are good role models and Britney simply sucks period.

    Sorry if I took this thread in a different direction. I think I got off track

  20. #45
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Halmstad, Sweden
    Posts
    7,400
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Political posts removed.
    Mattias Johansson
    Short, Swedish, Web Developer

    Buttons and Dog Tags with your custom design:
    FatStatement.com

  21. #46
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Maine USA
    Posts
    3,781
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by M. Johansson
    Political posts removed.
    Thanks. A better solution than losing the thread.
    Ken Barbalace: EnvironmentalChemistry.com (Blog, Careers)
    InternetSAR.org
    Volunteers Assist Search and Rescue via Internet
    My Firefox Theme: Classic Compact
    Based onFirefox's default theme but uses much less window space

  22. #47
    SitePoint Wizard Aes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    3,392
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My post wasn't political.
    Colin Anderson
    Ambition is a poor excuse for those without
    sense enough to be lazy.

  23. #48
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Maine USA
    Posts
    3,781
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Aes
    My post wasn't political.
    I didn't think mine was either, but both our posts were in response to one that was political or at least was a post that threatened to turn this thread uncivil. As such I didn't mind the whole exchange being removed.
    Ken Barbalace: EnvironmentalChemistry.com (Blog, Careers)
    InternetSAR.org
    Volunteers Assist Search and Rescue via Internet
    My Firefox Theme: Classic Compact
    Based onFirefox's default theme but uses much less window space

  24. #49
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    84
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Exclamation After the fact - you have seen the movie - what did you think?

    The last post to this tread was on July 2004.

    Most of the opinions within this thread were made up by people who at the time, had not seen the movie. I presume that by now most of you have seen Fahrenheit 9/11 and have made up your minds (like it - hate it)?

    - Do you still believe the movie/documentary was just a publicity stunt to increase his movie ratings?
    or
    - Did this movie/documentary really open your eyes to the truth, something that is/was clearly distorted by the media?

    In either case, you owe it to yourself to check this site out.

    100 FACTS AND 1 OPINION
    http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20041108&s=facts

    Therefore without getting political - and without sharing your "political" views... what did you think of the movie and information contained within?

    Fictional or Factual?

  25. #50
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy KLB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Maine USA
    Posts
    3,781
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Notes and support documents for all claims made in F9/11 can be found at:
    http://michaelmoore.com/books-films/f911reader/

    In addition via this site, MM makes great effort to address counter claims against his movie via careful documentation from published sources of information.

    One may take issues with the presentation or the way facts are presented, however, from a basic piece of research, MM did his homework and did a very good job of vetting every claim that is made in the movie. MM hired a world-class team of fact checkers to vet every claim made in this movie. He did this for one simple reason. He knew given the topic one factual error no matter how small would have become fodder for the attack dogs and could have sunk the movie. Sadly, if the mainstream media did their homework as well as MM did in this movie, things like the CBS disaster wouldn't happen.

    The question that should be asked is not if the movie was factual, but if you agree with the interpretations MM did of the facts? Each individual must answer this question for them self.

    From a movie making standpoint Michael Moore's use of the medium to express his views and his careful methodical approach to the facts is near brilliant. The weakness in the movie in my opinion was his occasional over the top commentary. I think some scenes (like Bush in the classroom) would have been more powerful and more persuasive had Moore kept his mouth shut and just let the scene unfold without running commentary.
    Ken Barbalace: EnvironmentalChemistry.com (Blog, Careers)
    InternetSAR.org
    Volunteers Assist Search and Rescue via Internet
    My Firefox Theme: Classic Compact
    Based onFirefox's default theme but uses much less window space


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •