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  1. #1
    SitePoint Zealot trigger8's Avatar
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    Which is the better solution, in terms of scalability, speed of implementation, costs, and support?
    Trigger8

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  2. #2
    exit();
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    PHP is the best IMO..It has support for 7 datbaases, fast, and open source!

  3. #3
    SitePoint Zealot trigger8's Avatar
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    What about the databases? MySQL and Oracle, which is better?
    Trigger8

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  4. #4
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Karl's Avatar
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    Oracle is the King of databases, but this comes at a heavy price premium (Ask Wayne - he will know how much).

    It all depends on what you are doing/planning on doing as to the choice you make. So what are you doing/planning on doing?
    Karl Austin :: Profile :: KDA Web Services Ltd.
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    Call 0800 542 9764 today and ask how we can help your business grow.

  5. #5
    SitePoint Zealot trigger8's Avatar
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    Nothing more than building a database for articles. I like to use PHP/MySQL to execute the integration. However, my boss has bias in any open source program, and he seems to love Java application more than anything else. I assume Oracle and JSP are the best combination so I was wondering what JSP and Oracle can do.
    Trigger8

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  6. #6
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Karl's Avatar
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    Does your boss know how much Oracle costs? Yes PHP is open source but this makes it stronger as bugs get noticed and fixed quicker than closed source software.

    For something like you are describing then PHP/MySQL would be the best bet, also of note is that MySQL now has commercial support options available from NuSphere.
    Karl Austin :: Profile :: KDA Web Services Ltd.
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  7. #7
    SitePoint Zealot trigger8's Avatar
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    I'm also curious about how much Oracle would cost. several hundred bucks?
    Trigger8

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  8. #8
    chown linux:users\ /world Hartmann's Avatar
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    Oracle is a very commercial database. I like JSP but PHP is just so much better And the language itself is so much like C

  9. #9
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Karl's Avatar
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    Ermmmm... Try several thousand dollars and you would be nearer to the mark.
    Karl Austin :: Profile :: KDA Web Services Ltd.
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  10. #10
    SitePoint Zealot trigger8's Avatar
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    I went to the Oracle web site and research a bit on the pricing. If I'm not mistaken, the highest amount that I've seen on that site is $750 (per server).
    What other direct costs would be inccured?
    Trigger8

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  11. #11
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    Has anyone herd of Oracle SQL. I have oracle 8i and Oracle SQL but I dont even know where to start. (Internet database)

    Is Oracle SQL good, is it better then MySQL. or other sql languages out there.

  12. #12
    chown linux:users\ /world Hartmann's Avatar
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    Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't JSP require Allaire's JRUN? Or a JSP server? go to http://www.allaire.com and look up JRUN. I think it is in the thousands also.

  13. #13
    SitePoint Zealot trigger8's Avatar
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    JRun 3.0 has a price tag of around $750 (1 server), without subscription service.
    Trigger8

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  14. #14
    SitePoint Addict isuru's Avatar
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    Is MySQL faster than Oracle,

    I once heard that MySQL was the fastest DB Server around

  15. #15
    chown linux:users\ /world Hartmann's Avatar
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    Trigger,
    How many connections at one time does that version allow?

  16. #16
    SitePoint Zealot trigger8's Avatar
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    MySQL might be the fastest, but it's defintitely not the most scalable one.
    Hartmann, I'm not sure about that. Maybe someone else could answer that.
    Anyone?
    Trigger8

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  17. #17
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    I believe minimum amount of connections is 200 at 10 a connection.
    (I could be wrong though this is what is on the web site.)

  18. #18
    chown linux:users\ /world Hartmann's Avatar
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    So you are going to go with the Professional Edition of JRUN (if you chose it)? May I ask what type of server you are running?

  19. #19
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Karl
    Oracle is the King of databases, but this comes at a heavy price premium (Ask Wayne - he will know how much).

    It all depends on what you are doing/planning on doing as to the choice you make. So what are you doing/planning on doing?
    I'll try to answer Questions about Oracle Prices and Performance.

    I work at Protection One. We pay an annual license of 1.5 Million Dollars for our Oracle License. This is an Enterprise wide solution that allows up to 1000 concurrent users and as many instances on AIX, Solaris or NT that we want. Once development and Conversion is done in our move from SQL Server to Oracle, we will have 5 instances (databases) providing 24/7 service levels.

    The $750 dollar price referred to earlier is for "Personal Oracle" this application is on par with MS-Access but Oracle's own teaching staff and sales reps recommend purchasing MS-Access over Personal Oracle. In my experience this program is worthless for scalable database work.

    Oracle SQL is simply the version of ANSI-92 SQL that is included in Oracle 8i or 9i.

    Oracle 8/9i is more scalable than MySQL and has about 10 times the features. Oracle 8i (the i stands for Internet)has the capability to create Java run webpages on its own. MySQL would never be able to run the application I work on which currently contains 50 tables and 15,000 lines of SQL Code in the form of Stored Procedures. The application I work on is a sub-application of Protection One's Alarm Monitoring System which has 800 tables total and about 500,000 lines of code in the database.

    A bit about our particular installation.
    The hardware required to run a stable copy of Oracle is costly as well. To run a Oracle 8i server you should have at least 1 gigabyte of RAM. Our two primary servers (named MASTER1 and MASTER2) are twin IBM RS-6000 S80's with 16 processors and 64 gigabytes of RAM each running AIX 4.4.3. These machines each cost $500,000 dollars. The data storage units are twin Shark Drive Mirrored Arrays with a total capacity of 2.10 terrabytes of storage space with usable space of 1.02 Terrabytes.

    MASTER1 is our Primary Production Server. MASTER2 is our primary backup server. Each database will constantly update the other so all data is synchronized. If MASTER1 should fail, all applications failover to MASTER2. Once MASTER1 is back online, MASTER2 will be failed manually to switch the Applications back. These servers track the information on everything from Human Resources, to Customers, to how many times the customer changed the battery in their alarm system since it was installed. Between 30 and 65 thousand records will be added a day.

    A third database server is sitting at my workstation. It is an IBM Netfinity Dual Processor 650 Mhz PIII with 1 Gigabyte of RAM and 100 Gigabytes of SCSI Storage, it runs Windows NT 4.0 and cost about $15,000. The third machine's sole purpose in life is to sit there and consume electricity until the very unlikely period of time that both MASTER1 and MASTER2 fail simultaneously. At that time it kicks in and provides database access to the sub-application I work on only.

    Add to all of this a 24 hour DBA team of 6 people making between $100,000 and $150,000 a year each. Add in $15 thousand each for benefits when figuring costs.

    Oracle Total Costs
    Servers: $2.515 Million Dollars
    Software: $3 Million Annually (Includes Oracle, Tivoli Server Watch and Informatica).
    Staff: $800 thousand Annually.

    Total Cost of Converting to Oracle
    $20 Million.
    <Edited by W. Luke on 12-06-2000 at 04:59 PM>
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  20. #20
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Originally posted by trigger8
    Nothing more than building a database for articles. I like to use PHP/MySQL to execute the integration. However, my boss has bias in any open source program, and he seems to love Java application more than anything else. I assume Oracle and JSP are the best combination so I was wondering what JSP and Oracle can do.
    In my personal professional opinion, having worked as an Oracle Developer for the last 7 months, if you use Oracle for something as simple as this, you are wasting your money. Oracle could handle the job of course but it is underutilizing the machine unless you plan on getting millions of Uniques per month. The companies that use Oracle are Amazon, AltaVista (converting this year), Visa (3,000 transactions a second) and much larger companies.
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  21. #21
    SitePoint Zealot trigger8's Avatar
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    I think I get the picture now. I wish my boss understand that.
    Trigger8

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  22. #22
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    If he wants my professional opinion as an Oracle Developer.. I can give it to him at $125.00 an hour which is market rate right now.
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  23. #23
    SitePoint Zealot trigger8's Avatar
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    Actually, a division of my company is working on a interactive TV project that has been launched months ago. We are using Oracle and JSP to deliver news, weather, and some other information to the users' receiver-box. As my boss see such a great thing that Oracle and JSP can do, he would like to have everything done with Java and Oracle. I explained to him how easy it is to implement MySQL and PHP to our web site, but he's kinda reluctant to accept that, and tend to use something that has commercial support.
    Trigger8

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  24. #24
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    If you already have Oracle and JSP (which you didn't mention before ) then use it if that is what your boss wants. Only when it fails your boss will be at fault. If you force your route and use PHP and MySQL and it fails, everything will be your fault.
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  25. #25
    SitePoint Wizard jumpthru's Avatar
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    Originally posted by trigger8
    I think I get the picture now. I wish my boss understand that.
    Just print off what wluke said and show it to him


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