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Thread: So many CEO's!

  1. #26
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    I myself am just a little bit annoyed at this "CEO" business - yeah, sure, they have a right. It is obviously just a ploy, however. I take no shame in calling myself "Owner." When I run a business that is quite serious and/or profitable, then I *might* consider giving myself a different title.

    But let's face it: the teens do it to sound more important than they are. They can if they want, but I don't, personally. "Owner" or "Founder" even (although I prefer the first) is more accurate.
    Last edited by TWTCommish; Mar 2, 2001 at 18:08.

  2. #27
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    Yeah, I think I agree with you TWT. I'm gonna adjust whatever signatures that include CEO in them. I'm the Owner/CEO/Webmaster/Director of Business Development/COO/CTO/CIO/and anything the heck else for my company! But, it doesn't even mean anything to say it.

  3. #28
    ComDude CryingWolf's Avatar
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    Onion there is no way around this in the US because contracts with minors are not legally binding. This would make it where a minor could get a loan without ever paying it back and there is not a thing any bank can do. Even if they had a co-signer then they could just default on the loan and the co-signer would have to be responsible. The co-signer wouldn't be able to do anything too. And as for investors in said business again the minor could make up any contract he or she wanted and take the money and run and the investors would have no recourse.

    I'll tell you what,,, I have a friend with a 14 year old son. I will make up a contact that both of you can sign. The contract will say that if you give Mike $1000 bucks he will give you $5000 bucks in two weeks. Sort of a loan with big interest or say in investment in the "Mike now has a $1000 bucks fund"

    Well do you sign?

    Do you think a company like Intel, IBM, Cisco, Microsoft would even consider doing anything without a legal contract? Do you think that these companies may actually think it unprofessional for a web design company not require some sort of moneys upfront to cover initial costs?

    For a small startup operation I can understand. I wouldn't require any moneys up front. But if I was approached by a company like Lucent or Intel to redo their corporate intranet I wouldn't even start without a contract and some moneys up front to get the ball rolling. Why you may ask? Well we need to know exactly what they should expect from me and what I should expect from them and anything less is a breach of contract. That doesn't mean that the contract can be changed from time to time to reflect changes in ideas and implementation. I would suggest contracts for any company of any size. The reason being is then you will know what you are going to get and if you don't get it or worse you suffer damages because of thier failures then you will have a recourse. And a contract would protect the design company too. The company couldn't say well we are not paying them cuz they didn't provide us with the wigit. You could then say well the wigit wasn't in the contract. And this would hold up in court.

    I do believe that with the same theme of a 14 year old calling himself CEO of a "web design company" because he happens to know how to put a pic and a link on a page using FrontPage. They really make it harder for people Like Sparkle, who know about color and design, to convince people to take them seriously. And some who have taken the time to learn design, color etc. they way undercut themselves often making much less then minimum wage. Then the ones who want to make it, struggle just to make a go of it.

    This all boils down to the few that have an unprofessional attitude. Like calling themselves CEO without really knowing what a CEO is.

    Again I don't know about contract laws in other countries with regards to minors. But in the US I don't even know if you can get a business license as a minor in most states? I am not entirely sure because I am not a minor.
    Last edited by CryingWolf; Mar 2, 2001 at 20:33.
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  4. #29
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    It's Sparkie actually. And I semi-agree. Calling yourself a CEO is obviously done to increase your professionalism, but because it's misleading, it decreases it.

  5. #30
    SitePoint Evangelist mad-onion's Avatar
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    Originally posted by CryingWolf
    Onion there is no way around this in the US because contracts with minors are not legally binding. This would make it where a minor could get a loan without ever paying it back and there is not a thing any bank can do. Even if they had a co-signer then they could just default on the loan and the co-signer would have to be responsible. The co-signer wouldn't be able to do anything too. And as for investors in said business again the minor could make up any contract he or she wanted and take the money and run and the investors would have no recourse.
    Security (for the co-signer) does not always come in the form of a contract. I would extend on that but i smashed my hand again this morning and its very sore..to sore to type much.
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  6. #31
    ComDude CryingWolf's Avatar
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    Originally posted by mad-onion

    Security (for the co-signer) does not always come in the form of a contract. I would extend on that but i smashed my hand again this morning and its very sore..to sore to type much.
    Sorry to hear about your hand Onion I hope you didn't hurt it too bad???

    ---

    Maybe from the bank of ma and pa.

    And the with a co-signer may or may not be a legal contract when involving a minor??? I don't think a bank would give a loan to a minor even if they had an adult as a co-signer? I would think the adult would have to take out the loan on thier name and/or credit.

    Again with all this there may be exceptions to the rules as I am not a contract lawyer so I wouldn't know if there are any???
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  7. #32
    SitePoint Evangelist mad-onion's Avatar
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    Your on the button now wolf, basically your parents (or anyone else but is most likely to be your parents) takes out the loan. Trivial really because most kids dont need back loans :-), but im sure you could work something with that.

    The hand aint to bad, i got hit with a cricket ball really hard about 6months ago and it wasnt quite better so when i wacked it on a door frame accidentally it sort of flared up a bit
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  8. #33
    ComDude CryingWolf's Avatar
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    I want to say again I didn't want this to turn into a discussion on contracts and minors. I was just pointing out a few things to consider.

    I do believe there are some pretty good teenage webdesigners. I do believe that the better ones are the ones that understand design and colors (artistic side) And I also believe that there are some that seem to be messing it up for the rest. I do believe that these forums and sites like sitepoint help point these ones to maybe better themselves and their designs and their thinking of design.

    And last but not least. I would consider "contracting" a teenager if I had a business even though any contracts we made are not legally binding. Why because there are some very good ones out there. And usually their services come a little cheaper then a full blown design firm.
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  9. #34
    Don't get too close, I bite! Nicky's Avatar
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    This thread is very interesting and I am happy to hear that a lot of you have really thought about things before launching a businesses. However, no matter what is said or how you defend yourselves there is no way around the law. And just as I stated before about how in the UK you MUST call yourself "Proprietor" on all business correspondence, there are many mroe laws that ahve to be complied to. For example, once you start trading, regardless of whether you ear 10 a month or 10000 a month you MUST register with the tax and National Insurance Office, and this is something thata lot of teens in the UK don't do as they see their income as maybe a bit of pocket money. I understand that sometimes it is too much hassle (apart from those of you with employees etc.), but because you are a teen if you get caught your parents could eb liable for YOUR mistakes!

  10. #35
    ComDude CryingWolf's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Nicky
    This thread is very interesting and I am happy to hear that a lot of you have really thought about things before launching a businesses. However, no matter what is said or how you defend yourselves there is no way around the law. And just as I stated before about how in the UK you MUST call yourself "Proprietor" on all business correspondence, there are many mroe laws that ahve to be complied to. For example, once you start trading, regardless of whether you ear 10 a month or 10000 a month you MUST register with the tax and National Insurance Office, and this is something thata lot of teens in the UK don't do as they see their income as maybe a bit of pocket money. I understand that sometimes it is too much hassle (apart from those of you with employees etc.), but because you are a teen if you get caught your parents could eb liable for YOUR mistakes!
    Thanks Nicky,

    The UK doesn't seem much different then the US when it comes to some tax laws.

    It might be a catch 22 thing for some teens in the US. Like I said you may or may not be able to get a business licenses if your under 18. You may need a parent or guardian to give their ok which could make them responsible for any damages that the company may incur. Not saying that a web design company can do much damage. If I had a really sharp child with good grades in school and was doing web page design on the side, I would of course consider signing a business license, tax id number, etc...
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  11. #36
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    If there is a CEO there should also be a CFO, COO, and so on. CEO is an individual role. If you don't have a board and investors, you are not a CEO. CEO is techincally the head of the board.

    One of my sites is registered as a business. I am not a CEO but a co-owner. I do pay taxes and go about doing business as anyone else.
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  12. #37
    Skills to Pay the Bills Sparkie's Avatar
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    Originally posted by CryingWolf
    They really make it harder for people Like Sparkie, who know about color and design, to convince people to take them seriously. And some who have taken the time to learn design, color etc. they way undercut themselves often making much less then minimum wage.
    Why thank you CryingWolf I'll agree with you that any professional design company should have a legal, binding contract to ensure that each party knows what is expected and what to expect.

    I really have to applaud the young adults who have set the goals of owning/running their own internet businesses. Calling yourself a CEO shouldn't have to make you boost yourself up in the eyes of your peers and clients though..you do that through the work that you produce. "Webmaster and Owner" doesn't sound like much of a prestigious title, but at the same time, I don't feel that I need a special title to magnify myself to customers.

    I would like to add that all the young adults in these forums who are serious about running their own internet business and filing out tax forms and such, do yourself a favor and pick up the book Small Time Operator. It costs less than $10 and is a great way to organize your business assets, personal talents and tax filing information.
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