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  1. #26
    SitePoint Enthusiast butch's Avatar
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    I'm using both,
    Photoshop for creating, fireworx for slicing the gfx and sendnig it to dreamweaver.
    I think that it is a better soultun than imageready..
    Or maybe the same, but I preffer fireworks.

    If you are looking for creating imgs, use photoshop!
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    | get firefox |
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  2. #27
    SitePoint Zealot nedo's Avatar
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    fireworx for slicing the gfx and sendnig it to dreamweaver.
    Fireworks has advantages if you are creating graphic objects for web and using dreamweaver...
    Alican KILIN« - Still nothing.
    Born to be happy, what else we are living for?
    Biyografi - Amsterdam - Paris

  3. #28
    Are You There? KDesigns's Avatar
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    There are advantages to both programs. I own them both and work on them both.

    However, my vote definitley goes to Photoshop for overall best. In my opinion it is THE program for professional designers (web or graphic). I do both graphic and web site design and use it for both types of work.

    Unlike some others, I think Photoshop is great for designing for the web. Now that goes along with saying... "DON'T USE PHOTOSHOP'S HTML!!" I design the site, slice 'er up, and take what I need and hand develop my own stuff.
    ChooseDaily.com - Follow on Twitter
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  4. #29
    SitePoint Addict Tizer's Avatar
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    Photoshop wins for me!!

    I have used both but nothing compares - I love the "Jump" command in photoshop where it jumps to Imageready and back again - wicked graphic manipulation one minute - animated gif the next!!!

    Fireworks is easier to use and I use it a lot for quick mock-ups and design roughs, but photoshop wins for overall design performance.

    What do other people think about the image export quality?

    In my opinion Photoshop exports a better quality image than Fireworks compared to the output file size - is it just me!!!

  5. #30
    SitePoint Zealot CatsEyeDesigns's Avatar
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    I've been a Photshop user since PS v4 and FW since v3. They both have their pros and cons, but the only way to really know which is better for you is to learn both of them and decide for yourself.

    I've found my layout work flow is a bit faster in Fireworks, but overall, I find photoshop to be a bit more powerful. I used to do all of my web work in FW, but eventually decided to spend a few weeks doing it in Photoshop and I haven't turned back since. I've found that my designs look better since I've been using Photoshop, but that may just be because I've been doing a lot more layout work than I used to.

  6. #31
    Non-Member Egor's Avatar
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    I used Fireworks for slicing Photoshop layouts when I first started but now I never use it. Photoshop's slicing isn't any worse or harder then Fireworks, and the Fireworks image optimization comes out very crap compared to Photoshop.

  7. #32
    SitePoint Zealot openXS's Avatar
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    Easy & convenient & BESTEST > Photoshop!

  8. #33
    SitePoint Addict shrikie's Avatar
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    I love photoshop, but it's so expensive if you're not a big company.

  9. #34
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    I personally like Photoshop mainly because of the ability to render anything I need. I've been able to accomplish the majority of what I need to do in Photoshop only because the availability of tools and commands is much more readily available than in Fireworks. HOWEVER, I am finding that many of the features that are available in Photoshop can be incorporated into Fireworks (filters, rendering, layering, etc). I am making a conscious effort to give Macromedia a chance at the graphics game for now though.

  10. #35
    minister of propaganda silver trophy Rynoguill's Avatar
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    i have both, fireworks mx 2004 and the new photoshop cs. ive used photoshop since version 5, and fireworks for at least three versions.

    personally im a macromedia person, i love dreamweaver and coldfusion and everything else they have, even flash. but imho photoshop trumps fireworks. i would love to be able to love fireworks more, but i just cant. it cant do things i want to do, and i cant find half of the stuff in there. photoshop for me seems much more intuative. and in response to whoever posted that they prefered imageready over photoshop, theyre both part of the same program, thats why you get image ready when you buy photoshop, you should design in photoshop and switch the document to imageready for your webdesign purposes (its just the simple one clicker)

    fireworks im sure would integrate with my dreamweaver much better, and may even have more of an idea about webdesign principles than photoshop, but you just cant beat ps in just about every occasion as far as my work goes
    rynoguill
    Ryan Guill, AKA Mark Roman

  11. #36
    SitePoint Guru DCS's Avatar
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    I've found that my designs look better since I've been using Photoshop
    How can you make that statement?

    The design comes from the designer not the software.

    I could make identical graphics in Photoshop and Fireworks and Paintshop Pro, PhotoPaint, etc. and there is no way you could tell the difference as to which graphic was made with which program.

  12. #37
    SitePoint Zealot CatsEyeDesigns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCS
    How can you make that statement?

    The design comes from the designer not the software.

    I could make identical graphics in Photoshop and Fireworks and Paintshop Pro, PhotoPaint, etc. and there is no way you could tell the difference as to which graphic was made with which program.
    Read the rest of that sentence.....
    Quote Originally Posted by CatsEyeDesigns
    I've found that my designs look better since I've been using Photoshop, but that may just be because I've been doing a lot more layout work than I used to.
    A BIG part of the reason my designs look better than they used to is because I've had to spend more time working on graphics and as with anything else, the longer you do it, the better you get at it. I think, to some extent, that photoshop works better for my "creative flow" then fireworks did, but that's a totally subjective opinion based on my preferences.

    Both are powerful tools and both are quite capable of producing top notch websites in the hands of skilled designer. The only MAJOR, measurable differences that you can compare between the two are maturity and popularity. Photoshop has been under development longer and is clearly more popular with professional graphic designers in general.

  13. #38
    SitePoint Zealot pionar's Avatar
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    I still remember something my multimedia professor once told me: Do not attach yourself to a software package. Know the basic concepts behind raster graphics and then go buy a reference book.

    Personally, I think Photoshop is too expensive, and Fireworks comes with Macromedia Studio, so if you're going to spend $500-$800 on software, get Studio MX and get more value for your buck.

    At work, I use Photoshop because my company spent the money for it, so I'm going to use it! I don't think I've ever used Fireworks here at work, though it's there. I've used it a couple times at home, just to play with the interface and see what it can do. Seemed decent enough. Of course, there's my favorite when not at work: Gimp. Gimp 2.0 is awesome, and I would put it against any major graphics package.

  14. #39
    SitePoint Guru DCS's Avatar
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    Read the rest of that sentence.....
    Read my next sentence

    The design comes from the designer not the software.
    I did read the rest of that sentnce and AGAIN it has nothing to do with the software used. You are not getting better as a designer from using Photoshop, you are getting better through practice.

  15. #40
    SitePoint Member
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    Post Test

    Quote Originally Posted by greg.harvey
    ...but if that work is web work then.......
    ...

  16. #41
    Drupaler bronze trophy greg.harvey's Avatar
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    I've said my piece. I'm staying out of it now.

  17. #42
    Non-Member CapitalWebmaster's Avatar
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    Humm.. PS or FW?? Which is best to me?

    Background: Freelance web design for 5+ years. Photoshop 3 years, Fireworks 3 years.
    Current Version: Photoshop CS, Fireworks MX 2004

    I began using Photoshop before Fireworks in the beginning. So I might prefer Photoshop because I use it more. But I have learned on my latest project, where I needed FW exclusivly, that I can get FW to do anything that PS can do. Seems though that PS still creates better quality, just slightly.

    It doesn't matter to me and I could live with either one. But given a single choice, I would stick with PS because of my knowledge of it, but I do love the FW intigration with DW and Flash. I am a die-hard Macromedia user by the way. Adobe and Macromedia rocks for web professionals!

    Anybody want to compare Illustrator and Freehand? Personally for logos and illustrations, Freehand is faster to use because it's less complicated, but Illustrator can put out the best quality. Freehand wins for me in this comparison. I do web sites, not professional art.

    Public Warning: FrontPage SUCKS!!!!! Do not use FrontPage!! God save us from FrontPage and it's followers!

  18. #43
    SitePoint Addict shrikie's Avatar
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    Captial... 5 years in webdesign and your website http://www.aiimedia.com/ is an extreme macromedia.com rip off flavored with javascript errors... you're a joke

  19. #44
    minister of propaganda silver trophy Rynoguill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shrikie
    Captial... 5 years in webdesign and your website http://www.aiimedia.com/ is an extreme macromedia.com rip off flavored with javascript errors... you're a joke
    hey man, first off check out test.creopus.com. secondly, thats not a macromedia rip off, macromedia gives that to you in dreamweaver as a css template they want you to use. secondly, if he wants to look like macromedia, let him. im not a designer, im a developer, so i personally dont care what the site looks like as long as it works unless im doing something for a client and then i give them what they ask for. but theres no need to start critiquing other peoples work because of their opinions.

    no need to get in fights here guys, its just a question of opinion and personal preferance thats all, not judging other peoples personal preferences and especially abilities
    rynoguill
    Ryan Guill, AKA Mark Roman

  20. #45
    Non-Member CapitalWebmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shrikie
    Captial... 5 years in webdesign and your website http://www.aiimedia.com/ is an extreme macromedia.com rip off flavored with javascript errors... you're a joke
    Thank you shrikie. I didn't know this was a web site critique section. But FYI, I don't use my web site for business etc.. I have plenty of word-of-mouth for now. I mostly use that site to keep the domain name for later serious use and to have somewhere to test new concepts and stuff.

    Actually, I'm about to change hosting to a CF host in July. Maybe I'll come up with something permanent by then. Experimenting with CF Communication Server to build true streaming media apps like two-way web cam conferencing and stuff, but with a membership pay-per-minute twist and more.

    Trust me, I know more than enough to make me lethal. It's pretty damn scary!

    Anyways, try to stick to the subject shrikie. Do you have anything to add to the current topic. Hey, lets battle by way of image apps. And then we'll do real pen and ink drawings and see who has the natural ability. So, good luck in the future, and if you need any help, don't ask me. Assume does what??

  21. #46
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    Photoshop is overkill for 99% of web work.

    You can avoid the steep learning curve of Photoshop, and do just about everything you would ever need to for the web in ImageReady, Fireworks, or PhotoImpact.

    I've have all four applications for years, and I find myself using PhotoImpact most of the time. I haven't upgraded Photoshop 7.0 to CS, and won't be doing so. I'll keep 7.0 around for those times I need to do heavy photo editing or for making photo collages, etc. I should also probably just uninstall ImageReady...can't remember the last time I used it to do an entire project.

  22. #47
    Non-Member CapitalWebmaster's Avatar
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    The only good thing to come out of PS CS is new ability to apply text to paths. Stick with 7.0 and you won't be missing much.

    I used PhotoImpact for some time too, 4 years ago, but PS is a different breed. PhotoImpact is for biginner graphic artist, IMO. Plus, compare amount of tutorials, plugins, and forum talk/help of each. Photoshop has the most support.

    BTW, there's no such thing as overkill. You can never have too much of a good thing. And I'd rather have more than enough than just enough.

  23. #48
    SitePoint Enthusiast
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    I believe there is a general misunderstanding here about these two products.

    Photoshot IS NOT a web graphics program. It is a Photo editing application that has had a companion tool, Image Ready, since version 5.5 or 6. I believe it was 6 but I my memory is getting aged Photoshop's greatest feature is bitmap editing. Its vector editing capabilities are not as mature as its brother application Illustrator. The tools that Photoshop has for web graphics is inherently more clumsy than fireworks, if present at all. While photoshop advocates my disagree with me I feel, being a avid photoshop and fireworks user, that Photoshop web design is not easy to learn if web design is the focus of the training.

    Fireworks since version 4.0 has leaps and bounds in tools for web design. It is not a bitmap savy application; moreover it is a Vector editing tool. Fireworks is geared toward Vector graphics. It can almost be said that Image Ready is to Photoshop in the same way Fireworks is to freehand. Fireworks cannot fairly be compared to photoshop. It could fairly be compared to CorelDraw. Fireworks, however, does facilitate bitmap editing mode. We can all agree that this is not Fireworks' strong suite.

    The dream setup, no pun intended, is to do all editing in Photoshop for pictures then import it into fireworks via .psd and put size it to fit into the web layout. You do not need such a heavy program to do simple weblayout. However you need it to edit your images and photos to fit into a well layed out design. Photoshop has better image editing tools hands down, such as Extensis Mask pro and others.

    BTW : Gimp is free because its GNU, not because it sucks. The windows version will never be as good as the linux version; however, it is not buggy if you have a stable install of Windows with GTK for windows. Moreover, Gimp can only be compared to version 4 of Photoshop in features that the two have in common. Gimp does offer things that PS doesn't though

  24. #49
    SitePoint Guru DCS's Avatar
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    Mike you seem to have a little misunderstanding as well
    It could fairly be compared to CorelDraw
    Nothing could be further from the truth.
    Corel Draw is a vector program. Fireworks is more of a hybrid doing both.

    CorelDraw could be compared with Adobe Illustrator as it is a vector program as well. These are both commonly refered to as Illustration programs. Freehand also falls into this category.

    Fireworks is quite "bitmap savy" an example being gaussian blur which works by smoothing and averaging pixel color values.

    But don't take my word for it, here's what Macromeida has to say:
    Get top-quality design results. Take creative control with vector and bitmap editing in an integrated environment.

  25. #50
    SitePoint Enthusiast
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    I have worked with both applications and when time came to buy an application, I eventually decided to buy Photoshop CS.

    I use Photoshop for:
    • Creating layouts that I eventually recreate using CSS
    • Editing pictures that I get from clients but that need some (or, sometimes, a lot of) adjustment before they look OK for the web. I love sharpening in Photoshop.
    • Editing my own pictures. I like photography a lot and every picture I shoot with my digital camera goes through Photoshop.

    Things I'd rather do in Fireworks if I had both:
    • Creating new logos and artwork

    Please keep in mind that Photoshop is about twice the price of Fireworks. This is because it has a lot more features. However, Fireworks has features that Photoshop does not have, and some that are simply easier in Fireworks than in Photoshop. They're two very different programs.

    Both Adobe and Macromedia have trials available for download, so my advise would be to download a trial for both Photoshop CS and Fireworks MX 2004 and use them for the things you will be using them for. In particular you may want to explore each programís weak points to see how limiting they are for what you want to do:

    • Draw a line in Photoshop or ImageReady. Then try changing the width of the line after drawing it.
    • Try some drawing in general in Photoshop
    • Grab some of you digital pictures and try editing them with Fireworks. Perhaps even prepare them to be printed (at 300dpi for instance)

    Good luck, and have FUN! They're both excellent apps, each with their strong and weak points.

    Can you use a screwdriver to drive a nail? Sure, it can be done, but it'd be much easier to use a hammer. If you're a carpenter, you might prefer to have both a hammer and a screwdriver.


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