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  1. #1
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    Is JavaScript dead? (or dying?)

    Yes, a discussion subject for all you J/JavaScripters.

    I've long been a JavaScript fan. But with the rise of server side scripts and css is js on the way out?

    I can't think what you can do that you can ONLY do in javascript (that is useful) anymore. Server side scripts are more secure and your hard work cannot be stolen and js has always had a big cross browser problem.

    I remember trying to code a NS4/6, IE5 drop down menu. It was so irritating.

    If the DOM is not the same across browsers js will only be pushed aside. css sites already advertise some effects as "JavaScript free". Is it all over for js?

  2. #2
    Non-Member Egor's Avatar
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    dead? wow. I was just getting into it...

  3. #3
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Not at all dead; as a matter of fact, I think you're seeing a resurgence in JavaScript use. People are just using it in a smarter fashion nowadays.

  4. #4
    SitePoint Guru Vincent Puglia's Avatar
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    As long as ISPs and host sites provide space without server access, client-side scripting will remain alive. In other words: when AOL (etal.) begins providing php or asp, you can begin to worry.

    Vinny
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  5. #5
    I'll take mine raw silver trophy MikeFoster's Avatar
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    Client-side scripting is now more powerful and more standardized than ever before. Server-side scripting, CSS, and Javascript are not in some kind of competition. They are different tools in the developers toolbox. Always use the tools most appropriate for the task at hand - usually you end up using tools in combination. You don't throw away your screwdriver just because you have really nice wire-cutters.

    I can't think what you can do that you can ONLY do in javascript
    Almost anything dynamic on the client-side - that's alot

    I remember trying to code a NS4/6, IE5 drop down menu. It was so irritating.
    There's no way to develop a menu that works the same on all those browsers without using client-side scripting.

    If the DOM is not the same across browsers js will only be pushed aside. css sites already advertise some effects as "JavaScript free".
    Do you think all browsers have the same level of CSS support? More browsers have the same level of javascript support than they do CSS support. Browser object models are more standardized than ever before. You manipulate the DOM with CSS. You manipulate the DOM with Javascript. DOM != Javascript

    I've seen this happen before. Every time something new comes along the purists jump on the 'this is the only solution' band-wagon. Why limit yourself? Why work with one hand tied behind your back? Fill your toolbox to the brim and learn how and when to use each tool.

    When the DOM started becoming standardized, many js dom enthusiasts started jumping on the dom-only band wagon. They hurt their cause more than they helped it. The current css enthusiasts should learn from that.

    Don't get me wrong - for those who love to play with CSS and push it to the limit - that's great, I love to play with javascript in the same way. In fact it is the experimenters who discover the potential and limits of new tools - and their discoveries trickle down to the general development community who then use them in more conservative ways. Sometimes I wear my experimenters hat, sometimes I wear my professional web developers hat. I develop very different pages depending on which hat I'm wearing

    And so, to you CSS gurus who have discovered wonderful things (which I now use) - Thanks!

    And the same goes to the JS gurus - I use your discoveries too.



    HAND

  6. #6
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    Oh, don't get me wrong. I love JavaScript. You can do so much with it. I still use it but I wonder if eventually it'll be for no more than window manipulation.

    And imho hacking css to work cross browser is a far easier task than getting js to do it.

    At the moment I'm using js to dynamically create site wide link menus. But I know I can do this with php. I've never tried any server-side js. How can you make the menu (as I described) work in all those browsers just because it is a server-side script? Surely the browser needs to have the same abilities. I did get that menu script working BTW. By sniffing, creating 2 versions, and using an NS and an IE outer frame. It was frankenstein! Never again.

  7. #7
    I'll take mine raw silver trophy MikeFoster's Avatar
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    After a cup of coffee (and finally starting to wake up) I re-read my post and realized that it might sound somewhat confrontational - or it might sound like I'm speaking directly to 'Subjective Effec' when I say 'you' - but I did not intend that and I apologize if my post was taken the wrong way.

    Subjective Effec, you posted a good question and I look forward to hearing other's opinions.


  8. #8
    ♪♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪♪ ♪ ♪♪ Markdidj's Avatar
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    Javascript won't die. Using server side puts more strain on the server. Why upload 20kb per page when you only need to opload a js file to the cache once, then 5kb per page. It's really useful for people with low bandwidth servers.

    I'd like to see a css or server-side equivalent of my of my drumming page ( IE6 and NS7 with WMP9 >> www.unitingrhythms.co.uk/drums/rhythms ) There's alot of js in that.......
    LiveScript: Putting the "Live" Back into JavaScript
    if live output_as_javascript else output_as_html end if

  9. #9
    I'll take mine raw silver trophy MikeFoster's Avatar
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    Mark, I love that! I had seen it before but it looks like you've made alot of improvements. Excellent work!

    I can't stop playin with it!

  10. #10
    SitePoint Member pmarselo's Avatar
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    From what I've seen, Javascript pages rule the corporate website world, and judging from the source pages, the programming looks quite complicated. My main interest in this is that there seems to be extremely good control of all the visual aspects of the website elements, text, graphics, layout, etc. I know that perhaps the majority of business websites out there can be done with a gamut of html related dtds; but, it seems to me that the quality of websites programmed with javascript offers a heck of a lot more functionality options than php, dhtml, etc.

    My question is...what tools do these programmers use for development and deployment?

  11. #11
    I'll take mine raw silver trophy MikeFoster's Avatar
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    Hi pmarselo, Welcome to SitePoint Forums!

    Perhaps what makes those sites so slick is their appropriate utilization and combination of html, css, server-side script, client-side script, xml/database, etc. Of course, being able to hire a team of world-class developers helps too

    Dev and Dep? That's an open-ended question and I'm probably not qualified to answer that. There are IDEs available for most of the things I mentioned above. Although, the dhtml wysiwyg/IDEs I have seen would only slow me down I have an excellent editor, several different browsers and great debuggers. The only thing I don't have is several different computers with different OSs.

    is that coffee ready...

  12. #12
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    This thread makes me smile

    It shows you how a new application of old tools (i.e. AJAX) can revitalize a seemingly dead or dying scripting language.

  13. #13
    SitePoint Aficionado JVLB's Avatar
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    It would seem, from the original question, that we, once again, had someone confusing JavaScript with Java (tee hee hee).

    Oh, and bye the bye, Ruby rules.

  14. #14
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    I think most people rely on javascript for client side programming. it can not be dead easily.



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