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  1. #501
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    Hi BonRouge,

    The example above needs quirks mode because I am using padding to in which to place the elements without increasing thge 100% height. As you know this can only be done in the broken box model version.

    The problem withh php and the xml prologue is when you have short tags set to on in the php config files (or wherever its kept). If you switch them off then you shouldn't get conflicts. (I don't know much php but i remember reading that .)

    Anyway you don't need to use the xml prologue as you can trigger it by enclosing conmments above the doctype anyway.

    Code:
    <!-- quirks on in ie -->
    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
    <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
    That will still validate but will cause quirks mode in ie and shouldn't affect php at all.

    If you don't need the 100% height version then you can do a fixed header in standards mode ok. This code belows puts a drop down menu at the top of the page so its always in view and the page scrolls undereneath. I've meaning to put this up as a demo because I don't thing I've seen an example that works this well

    It works in ie5, 5.5 and 6, firefox and opera7.5.

    Code:
    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
    <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
    <head>
    <title>Horizontal Drop Down Menus</title>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />
    <script type="text/javascript">
    // JavaScript Document suckerfish menu ala
    startList = function() {
    if (document.all&&document.getElementById) {
    navRoot = document.getElementById("nav");
    for (i=0; i<navRoot.childNodes.length; i++) {
    node = navRoot.childNodes[i];
    if (node.nodeName=="LI") {
    node.onmouseover=function() {
    this.className+=" over";
      }
      node.onmouseout=function() {
      this.className=this.className.replace(" over", "");
       }
       }
      }
     }
    }
    window.onload=startList;
    </script>
    <style type="text/css">
    body {background:blue;margin:0;padding:0}
    #ddwrap {
     height:22px;
     border-bottom: 1px solid #fff;
     background:#adbcc9;
    }
    ul#nav{width:790px}
    ul#nav, ul#nav ul {
     margin: 0;
     padding: 0;
     list-style: none;
     font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
     font-size: 10px;
     font-weight:bold;
     white-space:nowrap;
     background:#adbcc9;
     text-align:center;
     text-transform: uppercase;
     color: #FFFFFF;
    }
    ul#nav ul{font-weight:normal;text-align:left;}
    ul#nav li {
     position: relative;
     float:left;
     margin:0;padding:0;
    }
     
    ul#nav li ul {
     position: absolute;
     left: 0; 
     top: 100%;
     display: none;
     border:1px solid #fff;
     border-top:none;
     background:#adbcc9;
     width:auto;
     z-index:200;
     text-transform: none;
    }
    ul#nav li ul li{background:#adbcc9;float:none;}
    html>body ul#nav li ul {width:100px}
    html>body ul#nav li.ddwide ul {width:140px}
    html>body ul#nav li.ddsmall ul {width:80px}
    /* Styles for Menu Items */
    ul#nav li a {
     display:block;float:left;
     text-decoration: none;
     color: #fff;
     background:#adbcc9; /* IE6 Bug */
     padding: 5px 4px;
     }
    /* commented backslash mac hiding hack \*/ 
    * html ul#nav li a {height:1%}
    * html ul#nav li {height:1%}
    * html ul#nav li ul li{
     white-space:nowrap;
     width:100px;
     margin-left:-16px;
     voice-family: "\"}\""; 
     voice-family:inherit;
    }
    * html ul#nav li ul li{width:1%;ma\rgin-left:0;}/* ie5 skips this, but ie5.5. and 6 don't */
    * html ul#nav li.ddsmall ul {width:80px}
    /* end hack */ 
    ul#nav li ul li a { 
     float:none;
     white-space:nowrap;
     padding: 2px 4px;
     border:none; 
    } /* Sub Menu Styles */
    
    /* this sets all hovered lists  */
    ul#nav li:hover a,ul#nav li.over a,
    ul#nav li:hover li a:hover,ul#nav li.over li a:hover {
       color: #004173;
    }
    /* set dropdown to default */
    ul#nav li:hover li a,ul#nav li.over li a {
    	color: #FFF;
       background-color: #adbcc9;
    }
    ul#nav li:hover ul,ul#nav li.over ul { display: block; } /* The magic */
    /*.... code for top bar ............*/
    #top-bar {
     position:fixed;
     top:0;
     left:0;
     z-index:999;
     width:100%;
     height:23px; 
    }
    * html #top-bar {
     position:absolute;
    }
    #topbar-inner {
     height:23px;
    }
    * html #topbar-inner { margin-right:16px;/* for scrollbar*/}
    * html body{
     padding-top:23px;
    }
    * html, * html body{
     overflow-y: hidden; 
     height:100%;
     margin-top:-23px;
    }
    * html #mainouter {
     height:100%;
     width:100%;
     overflow:auto;
     position:relative;
     z-index:2;
    }
    
    </style>
    </head>
    <body>
    <div id="top-bar"> 
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    </div>
    <div id="mainouter"> 
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
      <p>some text to scroll</p>
    </div>
    </body>
    </html>
    I'm sure you can work it all out. It uses some proprietary ie code but you can put that in a separate file and call it with conditional comments if you want.

    Hop its of some use.

    Paul

  2. #502
    Winemaster bronze trophy BonRouge's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply. It's good to know that I might be able to sort this out with php after all. It's a shame that this layout can't be done without quirks mode though. I like it but I'd rather it was running to standards.

  3. #503
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    Paul O'B's Avatar
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    The second example above is in standards mode. Its only if you need a page that always stays at 100% that you need quirks mode.

    There may well be a solution in standards mode because I thought the second example wasn't feasible but works out very well. I just never had the time to get back to it

    Paul

  4. #504
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    If you figure out how to do the 100%-height version in standards mode, could you let me know? I'd really appreciate it.

    Thanks a lot.

  5. #505
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    a footer not 'footing'

    Hi Paul, I was wondering if you or any other interested party on here could help me out with a bit of a problem I am having with the footer on one page not being pushed to the bottom of the page. I can't see what is wrong, and it is not a problem with IE beleive it or not, it is with Firefox. It is confusing... I can't see the error, but it must be somewhere, considering all of the other pages are working propery. I have compared the problem one with working pages, but still can't seem to see the glitch...
    Here is the page (again it is only in Firefox that I see the error, not IE):

    http://stanleyparkecology.ca/jobs/

    Any other page that has a lot of content on it seems to work... it validates and as far as I can see all the divs are properly placed and closed...

    Much thanks if you can help.
    Cheers.

  6. #506
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    Hi,

    Your error is here - Can you see it ?
    Code:
    #jobs {
     background:url(/images/design/bgJobs.jpg) 100% 0 no-repeat;
     min-height:422px;
    }
    html #jobs{
     height:auto;
     height:422px;
    }
    You missed the universal selector out so moz only gets a fixed height and will not expand.

    Code:
    #jobs {
     background:url(/images/design/bgJobs.jpg) 100% 0 no-repeat;
     min-height:422px;
    }
    * html #jobs{
     height:auto;
     height:422px;
    }


    Paul

  7. #507
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    ooops! Yes I see it thanks. I now remember removing it due to a validation error I was getting, but that was because of another dumb mistake in not putting a space between the universal selector and 'html'... sigh...
    Thanks agian.

  8. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonRouge
    If you figure out how to do the 100%-height version in standards mode, could you let me know? I'd really appreciate it.
    Here you go:

    http://www.pmob.co.uk/temp/fixedlayoutexample5.htm

    enjoy

    Paul

  9. #509
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    Hey Paul,

    Thanks a lot. That looks great.

    I've just been trying to adapt it to my current page, but it's been difficult. I had it looking OK in Firefox, but it was all screwy in IE. Then I realised I might need to copy the code you'd taken out and put onto the page there. I did that, but it was still a bit messed up.

    Anyway, I have work to do now, so I kind of gave up for now (I'll get back to it in a day or two).
    Another problem I'm faced with here though - I wonder if you can help me with this one - is that on the page I have at the moment, I have a menu fixed on the left (http://cheers-sendai.com) - in any browser, it's fixed there because the body doesn't move and it's set to position:absolute. I know how to do this, but I couldn't seem to do it with your page.

    I think the problem I'm having is that I don't understand it completely, so I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing.

    Anyway, I appreciate the thought and I will use your code when I have time and can figure it out.

    Thanks again.

  10. #510
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    Hi,

    If you want to add a fixed sidebar to my layout above you can do it like this:

    http://www.pmob.co.uk/temp/fixedlayoutexample6.htm

    I'm not sure if thats what you were asking exactly

    Paul

  11. #511
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    Update :

    Paul,

    I couldn't leave it alone (http://cheers-sendai.com/newindex.php)... I think I kind of have it working, but there are a few noticeable problems (all in IE)... Firstly, when the page loads, the backgrounds load last, so the page looks bad for a short time. I wonder why...
    Secondly, the top and bottom of my scrollbar get covered up.
    Thirdly, as I said above, I'd like the menu on the left to stay where it is - ie. fixed. It's OK in Firefox, but not IE. (I know position:fixed doesn't work in IE, but it is possible to it without position:fixed...)

    I hope you can help. Thanks for looking,

    Cheers.

  12. #512
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    Hi,

    I think my new layout above does all you want:

    http://www.pmob.co.uk/temp/fixedlayoutexample6.htm

    It has fixed top and bottom and a fixed side panel.

    I haven't had time to transport it to your page but I'll get back to it tomorrow

    Paul

  13. #513
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    Hey Paul,

    I guess maybe I didn't see your newest layout there when I posted - kind of cross-posted.
    It does look like what I want - yes. Only trouble is, it took me ages to apply the other one to my page. Will I need to do it all again or is there a quick way to add the fixed menu?

    Thanks again.

  14. #514
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    Hi,

    Looks like the centering may be a problem but you can fix the side menu quite easily for ie6.

    Code:
    #tempmenu {
     display:block;
     width:130px;
     position:fixed;
     padding:10px;
     text-align:center;
     font-weight:bold;
     color:#000099;
     font-family:Georgia, serif;
     font-size: 14px;
     text-transform: uppercase;
     z-index:3;
       top:100px;left:7%
    }
    * html #tempmenu {position:absolute;}
    
    Then move the html for the list to here.

    Code:
    <div id="outer"> 
    		<ul id="tempmenu">
    		<li><a href="#" onclick="MM_openBrWindow('culture.shtml','CULTURE','scrollbars=yes,toolbar=no,left=160,top=50')">Culture</a></li>
    		<li><a href="#" onclick="MM_openBrWindow('grammar.shtml','GRAMMAR','scrollbars=yes,left=160,top=50')"  >Grammar</a> 
    		</li>
    		<li><a href="#" onclick="MM_openBrWindow('business.shtml','BUSINESS','scrollbars=yes,left=160,top=50')"  >Business</a> 
    		</li>
    		<li> <a href="#" onclick="MM_openBrWindow('karaoke.shtml','KARAOKE','scrollbars=yes,left=160,top=50')"  >Karaoke</a> 
    		</li>
    		<li> <a href="#" onclick="MM_openBrWindow('tte.shtml','TOEICTOEFL','scrollbars=yes,left=160,top=50')"  >TOEIC/TOEFL</a> 
    		</li>
    		<li><a href="#" onclick="MM_openBrWindow('tte.shtml','EIKEN','scrollbars=yes,left=160,top=50')"  >Eiken</a> 
    		</li>
    		<li><a href="#" onclick="MM_openBrWindow('writing.shtml','WRITING','scrollbars=yes,left=160,top=50')"  >Writing</a></li>
    		<li><a href="#" onclick="MM_openBrWindow('coffeetalk.shtml','COFFEETALK','scrollbars=yes,left=160,top=50')"  >Coffee 
    		  Talk</a></li>
    		<li><a href="#" onclick="MM_openBrWindow('travel.shtml','TRAVEL','scrollbars=yes,left=160,top=50')"  >Travel</a></li>
    		<li><a href="#" onclick="MM_openBrWindow('guitar.shtml','GUITAR','scrollbars=yes,left=160,top=50')"  >Guitar</a></li>
    		<li><a href="#" onclick="MM_openBrWindow('kids.shtml','KIDS','scrollbars=yes,left=160,top=50')" >Kids</a></li>
    		<li><a href="#" onclick="MM_openBrWindow('private.shtml','PRIVATE','scrollbars=yes,left=160,top=50')" >Private</a></li>
    	  </ul>
    <div id="contain-all">
    Ie5 and 5.5. would need a bit of tweaking but could be done. I'm a bit short of time today otherwise I'd look into it for you

    Paul

  15. #515
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    Hi Paul,

    Thanks again for all your help.

    With a lot of tweaking, I think I'm there - it's more or less exactly how I want it and now I'll be able to do what I said I was going to do - use a php template so that the site looks more consistent.

    Is there any chance of a good explanation of how it works some time in the future? (No hurry) I tried to do this so many times but couldn't do it without relying on quirks mode.

    So yeah... what can I say that hasn't been said before? You are a css God.

    (I only know this works in Firefox, IE6 and Opera by the way - I don't have IE5 or a Mac)

  16. #516
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    Hi,

    Well I tested my original demo in all these browers and it worked fine

    IE5 IE5.5. and ie6 - Firefox 1.0, Mozilla 1.3+, NN 6.2, Opera 6.03 7.2 7.5 and ie5.1 mac

    However i haven't had time to make layouts from it to check any problems but all seems ok.

    How does it work ?

    take a deep breath..........

    The usual way of making fixed positioning work in ie requires quirks mode and is to take the scroll mechanism away from the body (overflow:hidden) and apply it to a 100% pagewrapper element. This now becomes the root element.

    We the set the top and bottom padding ( and sides if needed) on the original body element then place our header and footer there absolutely. They are now outside our new pagewrapper and thus become fixed in position. Quirks mode is needed because when 100% height is required (in the case of a footer) then the padding top and bottom on the body would mess standards mode up because it would add it to the 100%. In quirks mode padding does not affect the stated dimension and allows the layout to work.

    Where my layout works is that it takes advantage of a bug (or behaviour - i'm not sure which) where children of elements that have a parent set with overflow:auto become position fixed when any positioning is added to them (either relative or absolute). This allows the footer to be set at the bottom of the window without increasing the padding on the body. Its very simple All the other fixes are for ie5 and 5.5. which must use the method that I described earlier.

    heres a simle example to show how it works in ie:

    Code:
    <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
    <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
    <head>
    <title>Untitled Document</title>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" />
    <style type="text/css">
    #outer{
    width:600px;
    height:200px;
    background:#ffffcc;
    overflow:auto;
    border:1px solid #000;
    }
    p#fixed{
    position:relative;
    left:200px;
    top:25px;
    background:yellow;
    width:300px;
    }
    </style>
    </head>
    <body>
    <div id="outer"> 
      <p id="fixed">Watching the content scroll by</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
      <p>This is the content:</p>
    </div>
    </body>
    </html>
    Hope that makes it a little clearer.

    Paul

  17. #517
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    hi paul,
    i'm trying to get to your 3-column-layout-examples but always get a timeout when visiting any of your pages on the server http://www.pmob.co.uk .
    am i mad or is it your server that strikes =) ?
    many greetings!
    jule

  18. #518
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    Hi Jule,

    The server seems to be working ok. I have been uploading and moving files around so maybe it locked you out for a while.

    The three column demos can be found here.

    http://www.pmob.co.uk/temp/3colfixedtest_4.htm

    Paul

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    hi paul,
    i don't get it, but i still geht a timeout with firefox and ie.. and i'm not connected to any server or router, just directly to my dsl.
    maybe you could send me the example via email? would that be ok?
    jule

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    I've sent you a PM

  21. #521
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    Paul,

    (I think) I understand.

    I hate to impose, but would you mind having a quick look at my page in IE5 or better still, tell me how to install IE5?

    Thanks again.

  22. #522
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    HI Bon Rouge,

    In IE5 the heading and the centre content is aligned to the left.

    The fixed header and footer work well. The side column just scrolls with the text like a normal page but is prefectly usable.

    In ie5.5. the same as above applied except that the sidebar is fixed and stays put.

    In Ie6 looks fine.

    You can download the multiple ie versions from here:

    http://www.skyzyx.com/archives/000094.php

    Its quite easy to do and works well as long as you just use them for viewing etc. I've been using since they first came out and have no problems if I just view pages and don't use the menu etc.

    I didn't have time to look at your page to fix the centering etc (as I'm on a deadline to get a page done) but I'm sure you are capable of doing that anyway. (probably just atext-align;center issue on a parent).

    Paul

  23. #523
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    Paul,

    Thanks for looking. I'll try that now.

    One more issue though - I asked asked a friend of mine to check the page in IE/Mac and she said it just sent the browser crazy and she couldn't see anything. I don't have a Mac, so... I'm guessing you have a Mac.

    But of course - don't worry too much about me - your deadline's coming up.

    Cheers again.

    Edit:


    I've never worried about IE5 or 5.5 before, but now that I have them in my computer, it's depressing. Everything's fine in Firefox, Opera and IE6, but these others are messed up. I tried one of those hacks for IE5, but of course it applies itself to IE5.5 too and fixing one meant making the other worse. I just kind of hope that if people see the page and think it doesn't look so great they realise it's because they're using a rubbish browser. Having said that... What can I do??? I've tried to fix the problems I see, but I got nowhere.

    Here's hoping you can come up with more magic.
    Last edited by BonRouge; Jan 25, 2005 at 08:54.

  24. #524
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    Hi Bon Rouge,

    My macs not connected to the neat its an old ie5.1. However the original code I gave worked fine as I tested it on there locally.

    If you want me to check yours you'd need to zip it up and sent it to me so I can see it with images etc.

    I'll try with just the code without images etc but it won't be until later on

    Paul

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    Thanks Paul,

    I've zipped up the files and put them here

    I appreciate this.


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