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  1. #1
    SitePoint Enthusiast
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    From Webmaster Techniques Daily news for December 27:

    "Efforts to catch fraudulent sellers on eBay.com are succeeding. In the past week Federal officials arrested two people in connection with fraud charges on eBay. Online fraud carries stiff penalties - up to 75 years in prison for Hen Ben Haim of Southern California who cheated over 200 eBay customers out of $32,000 through fraudulent auctions."

    So, what do you think of this penalty for eBay fraud?...Up to 75 years in prison for ripping off over 200 people of $32,000 (total).
    Joe Tracy, Editor
    Webmaster Techniques Magazine (free publication for Webmasters)

    author, Web Marketing Applied

  2. #2
    SitePoint Addict jamesglewisf's Avatar
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    I think it is perfect.
    Jim Lewis
    To BE or Not to BE, or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Barium Enema
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  3. #3
    SitePoint Wizard TWTCommish's Avatar
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    Beautiful...I was semi-ripped off on eBay once - I get the impression it happens quite a bit.

  4. #4
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    Very good. If someone does that they should get a penalty like that. Not only does it punish those who deserve it, but it discourages others.

  5. #5
    Nice Mug jer's Avatar
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    75 years eh? Don't people have shorter sentences for murder?

    Someone want to clear that up? I personally cannot fathom how defrauding people out of money (which is still very bad) is worse than murder...
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  6. #6
    Ex-SitePointer silver trophy
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    Can't you get Life Sentence(s) without parole for murder? I am not educated in the justice system to that extent, so I'm just guessing.

  7. #7
    SitePoint Addict jamesglewisf's Avatar
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    If you murdered 200 people, you would probably get more than 75 years. I think it was probably multiple sentences or something.
    Jim Lewis
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  8. #8
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
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    LOL 75 years? There was ths guy who ripped our government off for billions of Belgian francs (40 belgian franc == 1$) and he only got 5 years of prison... He even said 'Vive la republic' when our new king was being crowned. That guy was really lucky. All he does now is come on TV, drive Ferraris, etc. I'm talking about JP Van Rossem if you wonder

  9. #9
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    Each count of fraud (each person who was taken) carries a certain sentence, so when you defraud 200 people, the sentences can add up.

    Most murders receive longer sentences (keeping in mind that not all killings are murders). If conviceted of murder, you're likely going to get either life in prison or the death penalty depending on which state you commit the crime in and the circumstances surrounding the crime. Now, a person convicted of a life sentence may get out of prison well before his life is over (in Texas, for example, there is no sentence of Life Without Possibility of Parole. If you get a life sentence, you could get paroled in as few as 35 years). The same thing is likely true of this guy. While he got a 75 year sentence, he is likely eligible for parole well before that (depends on the laws of the state).

    As for eBay, I've conducted over 200 transactions on eBay and have yet to be ripped off.

  10. #10
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    **Shameless Plug**
    well if you are ever frauded, (Which hopefully you will not be) then post it on my site, and see what we can do. That is actually what my site is about, fraud and complaints.
    [/shameless plug]
    Have you ever been ripped off, lied to or cheated? If so, check out
    Baddealings.com

  11. #11
    ********* Addict jaiem's Avatar
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    Let's give them their due.

    It's very common on ebay (and probably all of online auctioning too) that a buyer says the description or photo didn't acurately describe the product while the seller says it did. So the buyer feels frauded and the seller feels they did nothing wrong.

    There certainly are many rip-off artists on ebay but it's so easy to through the F-word at a seller and make it stick, true or not.
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  12. #12
    will code HTML for food Michel V's Avatar
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    But there's a HUGE difference between murder and fraud. On the first case, you take life. On the second you take money.
    Of course for murder your life must be "taken" (endless prison / life sentence).
    But for fraud, i think it must be your money and not your life that must be "taken". 75 years for fraud, even for multiple frauds, are just too much.
    Others have frauded more than 200 people for more than $32000 (on a second thought, $32000 is ridiculous compared to the money you'd get by working for 75 years). They haven't been condamned longer than 5 or 10 years + a huge fee to pay.

    People need a second chance. If that person is ever condamned to live the rest of his entire life in prison, then i wouldn't really believe in the sincerity and common sense of your Justice. (and i would start wondering about the mental health of the judge)

    Don't you think the political persons are frauding more than 200 people, for more than $32000 (on a third thought, this is REALLY a ridiculous amount of money) when they take some money from the people's donations to parties, just for personal purposes such as building themselves a new house at a rich place, buying a great car, and so on ?
    <sarcasm> Why should we stop to the person we mentioned above ? Let's give life sentences to these political persons ! </sarcasm>
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  13. #13
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    Fraud happens on eBay big time.

    I have put many items up for auction only to not be paid by the high bidder. I have had the same bidder bid on my auctions and never pay many times. I have also had a few checks that bounce and never received a hard drive that I purchased for $60.

    The thing is eBay makes it fairly hard to do anything about it. You first have to contact the person involved, then you fill out your form, then you wait and wait and wait, all the time it takes I might as well cut my loses.

    Fraud is the number one reason why I stopped selling used computer parts for profit on eBay.

    I used to buy large quantities of motherboards etc, and resell them for a handsome profit, but soooo many high bidders never paid and when they did it took them sometimes months to finally pay me.
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  14. #14
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    Originally posted by Shin Ma
    But there's a HUGE difference between murder and fraud. On the first case, you take life. On the second you take money.
    Of course for murder your life must be "taken" (endless prison / life sentence).
    But for fraud, i think it must be your money and not your life that must be "taken". 75 years for fraud, even for multiple frauds, are just too much.
    Others have frauded more than 200 people for more than $32000 (on a second thought, $32000 is ridiculous compared to the money you'd get by working for 75 years). They haven't been condamned longer than 5 or 10 years + a huge fee to pay.
    Let's keep in mind that these people are merely facing charges that carry a potential prison sentence of 75 years. That doesn't mean that is the sentence they'll receive if convicted. Chances are, they won't receive 75 years. When all is said and done, these people will probably serve less than 10 years.

    Another point, the amount they defrauded people is unimportant. They committed 200 individual felonies. The fact that each felony was for a relatively small sum doesn't make it any less of a crime (just like stealing a Porsche is not more of a crime than stealing a Yugo. They are the same crime even though the Porsche is a more expensive automobile). If I burglarize 200 homes but only get away with $100 worth of merchandise in each home, it's still 200 different crimes. If I defraud one person out of $32,000, it's only one felony, and I would likely face a shorter prison term than I would for defrauding 200 people out of a total of $32,000.

    So the moral of the story is: If you're going to commit fraud, go for one big score rather than 200 little ones.

  15. #15
    SitePoint Addict jamesglewisf's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ryanpaige
    So the moral of the story is: If you're going to commit fraud, go for one big score rather than 200 little ones.
    That's really funny Ryan.
    Jim Lewis
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  16. #16
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    This is how the legal system works in the US. Each incident of law breaking is treated separately.

    It is not uncommon for criminals to be sentences to 100's of years in jail because they did so much.

    200 counts of fraud, even at 6 months each would be 100 years. It adds up.

    I think its a good system
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  17. #17
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    Oh... one more thing. For those of you who have been frauded alot on Ebay you may want to try out Amazon auctions. The base insurance amount is higher than Ebay's and if you wish you can sign up for Amazon Payments which insures your buyers up to $2,500 and sets you up to take their payments instantly via credit card. If I was going to be selling lots of items I'd go that way.

    Chris Beasley - I publish content and ecommerce sites.
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  18. #18
    SitePoint Wizard jumpthru's Avatar
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    75 years is REDICULOUS. My gosh, that is a long time. I mean maybe if he made 20 billion dollars or something. But 32,000? Thats nothing.

    Dont blabber at me about 200 different frauds, I aggree with you on that. But overall 75 years for only making 32,000 SUCKS for him.

  19. #19
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    Originally posted by jumpthru
    75 years is REDICULOUS. My gosh, that is a long time. I mean maybe if he made 20 billion dollars or something. But 32,000? Thats nothing.

    Dont blabber at me about 200 different frauds, I aggree with you on that. But overall 75 years for only making 32,000 SUCKS for him.
    Again, he hasn't been convicted yet. He's merely facing the possibility of 75 years if he is convicted AND gets the meximum sentence for each count and the sentences run consecutively. The chances are slim to none that he will get the max on each count. You commit 200 acts of any crime, the maximum possible sentence is going to be huge. But it's extremely rare to get the maximum sentence on every count in situations such as this.

  20. #20
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    Dont blabber at me about 200 different frauds, I aggree with you on that. But overall 75 years for only making 32,000 SUCKS for him.
    Exactly, it sucks for him. Yet even more evidence that criminals tend to be stupid.

    Chris
    Chris Beasley - I publish content and ecommerce sites.
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