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  1. #26
    Just Blow It bronze trophy
    DaveMaxwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slandry
    Don't you find the control easier using tables? Maybe I just don't have enough experience. I know all the benefits of building a site with standards but it seems you loose flexability while doing it.
    Actually, the more I work with the CSS design, the easier it's getting to be and the more control I have over it and the easier it gets. It even allows me to do some more complex stuff that would require all the rowspanning and cellspanning which can get to be a major pain, especially once you have to add or delete a column.
    Dave Maxwell - Manage Your Site Team Leader
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  2. #27
    SitePoint Wizard jag5311's Avatar
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    Hey V,

    Yea, I just noticed the transparency for background color. Dreamweaver didn't like it but left it as is. I undersstand it now, I thought IE didn't understand Transparency, but I was wrong

    Hey Slandry, you can check out my site (not the greatest visually) but its XHTML 1.0 compliant and still uses tables. www.somethingspecialgiftbaskets.com

    It does take care of aligning huge lists a certain way and such.

    Personally, I wanted to improve the look but the owner was happy with it and wanted it left the same.

  3. #28
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jag5311
    Yea, I just noticed the transparency for background color. Dreamweaver didn't like it but left it as is. I undersstand it now, I thought IE didn't understand Transparency, but I was wrong
    IE understands full/binary transparency (like with GIF images), but not the cool alpha/variable transparency that PNG provides .

  4. #29
    Wanna-be Apple nut silver trophy M. Johansson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveMaxwell
    That's exactly Vinnies point. Make that site css based. I've been working on it on & off the past couple days when I can sneak a couple minutes in. Partially done, but it's time consuming because of the goofy way they did the table structure.

    But if vinnie beats me to it, all the better.
    Ahhh, now I get it. Sorry Vinnie, I completely understood.
    Mattias Johansson
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  5. #30
    SitePoint Wizard DougBTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jag5311
    I think Vinnie's kicks *** right here
    http://contest.prestontalk.com/index/FluidFixed/
    IMO, that is the sort of comment which makes people think CSS design can only be boring...

    It is clearly possible to make nice sites with CSS (though I wouldn't count the above as an example) it just seems that people, on the whole, don't. Through lack of CSS skills or lack of visual creativity, there just aren't that many sites out there.

    Again, just to make the point clear: It is possible, we just have to wait for people (and here I mean the face-less masses of web designers and web "designers" out there) to actually do it.

    A question I think would be interesting, but which we won't know for a few years yet, is which will happen first: Getting to the stage where everyone does CSS layout, or getting to the point that people just don't use HTML anymore.

    Regards,
    Douglas

    PS: I still think that it is silly censoring the word "a s s"...
    Hello World

  6. #31
    SitePoint Wizard jag5311's Avatar
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    Hi Doug

    When I made the comment I did, I am refering to how I felt about Vinnie's design compared to other css designs I have seen on the web. You are right, there are not a ton of great CSS examples, but they are growing in numbers. I felt vinnie's has a good color scheme, good menu, and how the whole thing looks as a whole looks good. I don't quite see how looking at that is boring. I know it doesn't have flash slamming you in the face or animated graphics hopping across the screen, but in terms of what a good website should look like, that is one of the many many examples. However, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

    p.s. I think censoring alot of certain words are silly.

  7. #32
    SitePoint Wizard DougBTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jag5311
    I felt vinnie's has a good color scheme, good menu, and how the whole thing looks as a whole looks good. I don't quite see how looking at that is boring.
    I'll just agree to disagree. (To me, the colour scheme is weak, the menu is functional at best, and my overall impression is that it is a good technical demonstration for how to do a CSS layout, rather than it being a finished design. Hyperlink blue text?)

    Other than that, we agree that CSS can be used to make nice/great designs, debating what nice/great/bland are could last for a while

    Douglas
    Hello World

  8. #33
    SitePoint Wizard jag5311's Avatar
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    Do you have a site in mind that you feel is nice/great/non-bland design is?

  9. #34
    SitePoint Wizard DougBTX's Avatar
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    I quite like the new http://www.alistapart.com/ design.

    What do you think of it?
    Hello World

  10. #35
    SitePoint Wizard jag5311's Avatar
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    Its a very good design. I am not a huge fan of how small it is (width I mean). I think it would be much greater if they widened it and allowed more of their information to be seen. my opinion though.

  11. #36
    SitePoint Wizard DougBTX's Avatar
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    You could always just use the xml feed
    Hello World

  12. #37
    chown linux:users\ /world Hartmann's Avatar
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    I like ALA. The colors are a little bland for me but the design fits the type of site (informational with articles) to me and I like that.

  13. #38
    1-800-JMULDER JMulder's Avatar
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    DaveMaxwell - I know exactly what you mean with the flexibility in CSS designs. Last night I wrapped up a freelance project --my first paid one done in XHTML/CSS (certainly not my first CSS design)-- and before doing that I needed to implement a little language select.

    It was amazing how I could just write the code and then use CSS to absolute position just about anywhere I want. Especially in the last stages of the project I started to see more how easy it was.

    And oh, am I the only one who gets a kick out of viewing the design with styles disabled?
    Jeroen Mulder

    w: www.jeroenmulder.com

  14. #39
    Ceci n'est pas Zoef Zoef's Avatar
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    For a list of 'real world' CSS designs (as opposed to demonstration/contest sites) have a look over here:
    http://www.builtforthefuture.com/sitelist.php

    Rik
    English tea - Italian coffee - Maltese wine - Belgian beer - French Cognac

  15. #40
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMulder
    And oh, am I the only one who gets a kick out of viewing the design with styles disabled?
    Nah, I like it too . I do it to see if the site still makes sense.

  16. #41
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  17. #42
    SitePoint Wizard jag5311's Avatar
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    I like Shark Rodeo. Nice colors, very simple, clean.

    TwoThirty is awesome to.

    Nice sites

  18. #43
    SitePoint Wizard DougBTX's Avatar
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    Do you all agree that the popularity of CSS boils down to telling people how to use it then, rather than any technical flaws in CSS itself?

    Douglas
    Hello World

  19. #44
    SitePoint Wizard jag5311's Avatar
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    I don't think people should be TOLD how to exactly use them, rather they use them according to the specifications they are meant to be used for (if that makes sense)

    I am very sure there are plenty of technical flaws in the code itself, but I don't know what they are.

  20. #45
    Ceci n'est pas Zoef Zoef's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougBTX
    Do you all agree that the popularity of CSS boils down to telling people how to use it then, rather than any technical flaws in CSS itself?

    Douglas
    Few people would argue that CSS is flawed. Can it be improved? Sure it can, what can't? And I guess that's why CSS3 is being worked on.

    What is flawed, to state the obvious, is CSS support in certain browsers (or should that be a certain browser ).

    Rik
    English tea - Italian coffee - Maltese wine - Belgian beer - French Cognac

  21. #46
    gingham dress, army boots... silver trophy redux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougBTX
    Do you all agree that the popularity of CSS boils down to telling people how to use it then, rather than any technical flaws in CSS itself?
    i read it three times, but...your sentence still makes no sense to me
    re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
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  22. #47
    ☆★☆★ silver trophy vgarcia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redux
    i read it three times, but...your sentence still makes no sense to me
    Me too. In my opinion telling people to use CSS (and some of the zealotry involved) pushes people away from using it, as does perceived "technical flaws" (though Zoef's right, the flaws are in the Web browsers, not really with CSS).

  23. #48
    SitePoint Zealot str8acer's Avatar
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    I just received my FIrst sitepoint book. Designing with css. I read every single post on this topic.
    I checked out every single link(most anyways) and i think that i can do something that would be eye catching but simple.

    Just wanted to let you know that i got inspired today. Thanks.


  24. #49
    SitePoint Wizard DougBTX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redux
    i read it three times, but...your sentence still makes no sense to me
    Main Question: Why are so many sites HTML sans-CSS, particularly sans-CSS-Positioning, (like position: absolute etc)?

    Multiple Choice:
    - People don't know about CSS
    - CSS does not fit people's needs as well as other options
    - Combinations of above

    Douglas
    Last edited by DougBTX; Nov 18, 2003 at 13:32.
    Hello World

  25. #50
    SitePoint Wizard jag5311's Avatar
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    For $1000, what is C Alex, Combinations of the above?



    does Sans-css-p mean something to do with presentation? Sorry for the dumb question


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