SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: EU discussions

  1. #1
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Mechelen, Belgium, Europe
    Posts
    684
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The last days several points were discussed by all EU-members. One of them was how they would split up votes. the french have messed it all up... They have now the same amount of votes as germany, while Germany has 30 million inhabitants more and a much better economy than France has... Also Belgium get snow less votes than the Netherlands, where Belgium is more important economically spoken than the Netherlands.

    Another point was that they almost approved all those east countries, which I dislike... They are giving bandites free access to our countries. The thiefs here are 99% albanians, ... and they are not afraid to kill people, while criminals from inside belgium don't shoot someone that fast. I mean, there is no big problem yet, but it might be there pretty fast. Also what do WE get in return for the wealth we will be bringing to them?

    *sighs*

    What do you guys think of what is going on. I ask this questions to Europeans, as the Americans are still busy with their elections

  2. #2
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    89
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    do I smell racism? if i am wrong correct me please.
    Great Dane
    Gokhan ARLI

  3. #3
    SitePoint Wizard silver trophy Karl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Derbyshire, UK
    Posts
    4,411
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The EU is the worlds largest joke (closely follwed by US elections <joke> ). They think that charging a tax on all telecomunications lines (mobile, land, fax, data, leased lines etc.) of 30 per year ($45) will help grow a strong e-econemy - They are a joke full stop. I really hope the UK will withdraw from the EU as they have no place telling us what to do, they are only strict with the rules on the UK, something that is not accpetable to the EU over here in the UK is perfectly acceptable to the EU in other member countries.

    Right, rant over. I am going to calm down now.
    Karl Austin :: Profile :: KDA Web Services Ltd.
    Business Web Hosting :: Managed Dedicated Hosting
    Call 0800 542 9764 today and ask how we can help your business grow.

  4. #4
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    12
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If you say that France doesn't deserve as much votes as Germany, because of their number of inhabitants, then it's only logical for us (Belgians) to have less votes than the Dutch, considering they have more inhabitants.

    And isn't it a bit racist to state that most crimes are comitted by East-Europeans? OK, I agree that there are East-European gangs active in Belgium, but to say that they are responsible for 99% of Belgian crime...

    And I do agree with Karl that the EU is a big joke: all countries can still have their own laws and decide not to comply to European rules and all they get is some stupid warning. The EU has no real power and is IMHO a big waste of money.

    Ok, this is my opinion on the EU.

  5. #5
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    146
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by CJ
    Also Belgium get snow less votes than the Netherlands, where Belgium is more important economically spoken than the Netherlands.
    I do wonder what makes you say that - it might be me but i think Gross National Product in the Netherlands is higher than it is in Belgium - correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't check the books on it

    And, we have more inhabitants - why should the Netherlands be spared a vote because Belgium doesn't get one? Go steal a vote of another country to even up with us
    Mike Ossendrijver
    Sales, AdSensor - Quality Online Marketing
    mike@adsensor.com

  6. #6
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Mechelen, Belgium, Europe
    Posts
    684
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    No you do not smell racism.... There is a big difference between being 'concerned' and being racist. 30% of my town are ppl from Marroco or Turkey and most people live along nicely (including me).

    It is just a fact that 90% of all criminalities are caused by people from the eastern countries around Russia.

    About Netherlands<->Belgium and Germany<->France. The difference between 4 millions (which is the difference between Belgium and the Netherlands) and 30 million people is a bit bigger. If whole belgium would be as economical as the northern part (where 6 million ppl live) Belgium would also have a bigger BNP.

    I will post the BNPs later on

  7. #7
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Mechelen, Belgium, Europe
    Posts
    684
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I found this in the Comptons World Atlas Interactive...

    BNP/cit.: 18 040 in Belgium, 17 940 in the Netherlands

  8. #8
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Posts
    62
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    As someone speaking at a distance (U.S. - there are actually a few of us who pay attention to the snippets of foreign news mixed in with our own election coverage), the following is my impression:

    In all reality, the EU is still in its infancy, or at least early childhood. The next few years will determine if it lasts or falls apart. I'll be the first to admit that history and politics are not my strong points, but I suspect that NATO and the UN had similar problems in the beginning. They still have issues with power-sharing and distribution, it seems to me (and yes, I think the U.S. is certainly part of these problems). This is the nature of organizations that seek to involve a variety of different nations.

    Personally, it does seem a little unfair to me that the votes were assigned without any set, consistent formula. It seems one could have been developed that would take into consideration population, GNP and charter member and/or years of membership status. As it stands, there will be accusations of partisanship (not quite the right word, but you get the idea), prejudice, unduly exerting power, etc., etc. which could lead to some nasty in-fighting, which is what I see posing the greatest threat to the EU's continued existence.

  9. #9
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    146
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Maybe we got an extra vote because of our prime minister Kok (yes, for all you jokers, pronounced as ****) did such a good job lobbying! Belgium! Go out and lobby!
    Mike Ossendrijver
    Sales, AdSensor - Quality Online Marketing
    mike@adsensor.com

  10. #10
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Mechelen, Belgium, Europe
    Posts
    684
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    eeerrrr. It is the French who have decided that. Anyway all the big buildings of the EU are in belgium and I guess we can lobby much better than you can

  11. #11
    SitePoint Zealot
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    146
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hmmm ... then why didn't you get more votes - it's worth lobbying for, I think you agree on that with me

    Hey, how about all small countries just sign a deal nobody knows about and lay a bomb under the EU - with all votes of all small, but rich, countries combined some crisis could be created

    And, to close off, I think vote number based on citizen count and economic prosperity is the fairest ... but why won't you allow the Netherlands to get an extra vote? Just because Belgium isn't getting one either?
    Mike Ossendrijver
    Sales, AdSensor - Quality Online Marketing
    mike@adsensor.com

  12. #12
    SitePoint Zealot Ambr0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    131
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sorry If I disturb someone. Usually I'm a person that only reads the posts and not replies to them, because I have still got a lot to learn. I do this since April 2000.
    But this topic really got my attention.
    I'm from Romania. A country that most of you don't even know where's on the map and all Romanian citizens (and Eastern Europeans - EE - without Russia, they are a different story) are a bunch of thieves. The only words a Western European (WE) and American associates with my country is theives, bandites, (availble for the other EE countries also) etc., Ceausescu, comunism, commies, Hagi, Comaneci, Nastase, Szabo (sport figures).

    Well, if you want to really know something, the Europe after WWII was a bunch of ashes and dust. So, the US and Russia decided to split the continent in two for themselves. So the Americans took the West, which with the Marshall plan helped them to develop, they formed NATO in 1949 and UN few yrs later if not the next, while the Russians took the EE, and obligated the EE countries to sign the Warsaw pact in 1950.

    And plz don not say that the population had chosen tha country destiny cause it's a false affirmation.

    Romania had free elections in 1947. There were three big parties: the liberals, the commies and the democratic christians. The commies won with an outstanding 91%!!! The liberals got 7% and the democrats the rest!!! But later on in our history, it was found and proof that the percents were different: the liberals got 91% and the commies 7%!!!

    And now, the medium wage of a Romanian person is $100 a month, the money that most of you ppl get out in 2 days.
    There are engineers paid $ 100 a month and doormen to 5 star hotels in major cities paid three times or five times more + the tips.

    I'm 16 years old, and I live in the second largest city in Romania, Constanta, a city with 400,000 inhabitants, and one of the more developed regions of the country, but also
    sub developed. Constanta is most famous for the ancient ruins of Tomis (ancient greek city founded 2700 years ago), and that it is the oldest Romanian city ever. It is also one of the top 10 European harbors. Some pics availble at http://fc-farul.tripod.com/poze_02.html

    Also, we, as Romanians, are quite different from our neighbors, because we are latins. And latins are very temperamental ppl. But we live in the Balkans. And Balkanic ppl is also very temperamental (that's why all those ethnical debates). And that's deadly combination.

    You, EE and Americans, will never know how it is to live under over 30 years of communism. I don't know, but my parents and other ppls testimonials are scaring me. You weren't allowed to curse Ceausescu, because the security was all over the place, and for some very harsh words you could have been beaten to death. That happened to my father's match teacher that said in a store to his wife (as a joke): "Honey, we should buy that fridge and freeze Ceausescu up". He made some prison years for that. Also Ceausescu's and sons fave soccer teams won all the titles and were allowed to roib every team which had a player that we're interested in. They were not paying it, they were just putting one of Ceausescus sons to give oreders and to threaten the other club officials. When my mother was pregned (I hope I spelled that right) with me she stayed 6 hours in a row to eat some green bananas. You couldn't find meat, and if you did, it was to expensive to buy it. There was only one TV chanell that broadcasted only 2 hours a day, and that was only Ceausescu's & familiy interviews.
    There was electricity only 12-16 hours a day, Ceausescu wanted to make some economies. He was very good freind with Arabian leaders and communists leaders. For example, Iraq has borrowed from us over 2,000,000,000 $ and they cannot pay them back because the UN are still keeping their embargo that dissalows them to export oil.

    Also after NATO bombarded Serbia, Romania lost 6,000,000,000 $ and we still lose money because of the damaged bridges from the Serbian sector of the Danube as we cannot transport anything.

    And don't make us theives. See how the Westerners are robbing us from EE, in sports for example. Do you watch soccer? Have you seen Euro 2000? Have you seen the Romania vs. Germany match? Do you watch the European Handball Female championships hosted by Romania, where the the western refs came to rob us in our country. Have you seen the Olympics. A small country like Romania disturbed the big powers as we have finnished on the 11th place, and we could have finnished higher if they didn't stole from us some medals (see Andreea Raducan case - gymnastics and Melinte case - hammer throwing, WR owner - what happened to her was absolutely incredible). For example, in soccer, a non-EU player has got different rights than a EU one. That's racism. If you live in Belgium CJ and following soccer you must probably know the 20 year old Romanian starlet of Anderlecht Bruxelles, Alin Stoica.

    And about piracy. In Romania, the software privacy is over 90%, because a person who has got a $ 100 monthly wage can give $ 700 on Photoshop. So he buys it with $4. Or he just buys a magazine with the program (esp. Macromedia ones) and cracks them. You can't afford to give several hundreds of $$$ on Windows and see some anoying blue screens. And ppl in EE are well known that they use their knowledge in more evil ways that the Westerners are. For example, I think that the illegal # of Romanian sites exceeds the legal #. I know ppl who hacked sites, I have freinds in school who are playing around with the online stores (probably most of you ppl who hold an online store had problems with EE persons and credit card #),

    And don't worry CJ, you won't see too soon the EE countries in EU. Because there are some rules to respect, like a higher medium monthly wage, a lower % of software piracy (lower than 50%, ), etc. And we probably have to kiss some stuff too! You know what! The countries that will propaply end the negociations first are Hungary, Poland and Czech Rep. that will all enter the EU in 2003. Then Bulgaria and Slovenia will probably enter the EU in 2005 and Romania I hope they'll enter sooner than 2008.

    Always proud to be Romanian and EE!!!
    -----

    Primul lucru, care, tre' sa-ti intre-n cap, in Romania viitorul este nelimitat! (Romanian best hip-hop band, B.U.G. Mafia, in their song named 'Romania', the beginning sentence - btw, I love Eminem, I hate golden boy bands)
    Translation:
    The first thing that should enter your head, in Romania the future is unlimited!



    Those lines below are reality. There is no fiction up there!
    Soccer Directory | Travel Directory
    (free - reciprocal will give you featured status)

  13. #13
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Mechelen, Belgium, Europe
    Posts
    684
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hey david,

    I know where Romania is, and I have seen soccer matches of Romania vs. Belgium and vs. Germany and I know 'Stoica' a young Romanian player in Anderlecht.

    I know it isn't fair that you loose money because of wars, but how can you justify stealing money from innocent people here? I mean, it's not the Romanians who come here stealing, well at least they say you don't, for the biggest part it's Albanians. And about communism. Did you never think that you could win of Communism by raging against it? If a whole country rages against it, they will have to recoil, because in communism all wealth is inside a country, and there is no country without citizens. Even if you would risk your lives I think it's worth fighting for. And if a whole country woukd rage against it you would get help from other countries as well.

    But okay, it must not be nice to live under Communism. I'm in favour of increasing partnerships with Romania and stuff, but not in favour of opening the borders, because it would make it too easy for criminals. But I'm not implying everyone is a criminal.

  14. #14
    will code HTML for food Michel V's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Corsica
    Posts
    552
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by CJ
    but not in favour of opening the borders, because it would make it too easy for criminals.
    Sorry, you don't have the right to categorize EE people like this.
    There are criminals in all countries, and long before EE borders were opened there surely were gangs in your area. So, some albanian gang came and beat the local gangs ? OK, but that doesn't mean that albanian people are criminals. It's a fallacious statement.
    Do you know corsica ? Well your french neighbours are considering the whole people of my island as cruel terrorists just because there are some independantist groups (i won't explain the details here). While life in corsica is peaceful and quiet.

    This behaviour is not to be accepted. We didn't say all people from belgium were child rapists when the Marc Dutroux cases got known by the public. Because we respect your country. So please respect EE citizens, they really don't need this kind of reputation.
    The fact that we live in rich western countries doesn't make our people any better, doesn't give us the right to judge the EE people.
    <Edited by Shin Ma on 12-12-2000 at 06:06 AM>
    [blogger: zengun] [blogware contributor: wordpress]

  15. #15
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Mechelen, Belgium, Europe
    Posts
    684
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    plz don't take my words out of the context. I explicity said that I'm not implying all EE citizens are criminals. I was just saying that there are people who don't have lots of money, ppl who ost their money by communism who think they can go steal in a rich western country. People have to work for their living here, it's not like we get it all throwed in our hands.

    And yes there are criminals here as well... but in my region (dutch speaking part) every single person can get a job. This means people don't have to steal to get to their money. Most roberies in belgium are done by non-Belgian citizens. And if there is really something criminal with murdring and stuff it is in the french part of belgium. For example the case Dutroux.

  16. #16
    SitePoint Addict jamesglewisf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Big D
    Posts
    321
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    This thread has remained relatively civil so far. Let's keep it that way.
    Jim Lewis
    To BE or Not to BE, or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Barium Enema
    FrappyDoo Forums

  17. #17
    SitePoint Guru CJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Mechelen, Belgium, Europe
    Posts
    684
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by jamesglewisf
    This thread has remained relatively civil so far. Let's keep it that way.
    Why not close it? Maybe I used the swear 'darn' somewhere.. Who knows...

  18. #18
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Posts
    62
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    A few points:

    - 1 vote extra for the Netherlands compared to Belgium doesn't matter because the Benelux countries almost always vote together.
    - By accepting Eastern European countries into the EU, we will improve their economy, which will result in lower crime rates. Western European economies will profit too, because they can export more products to Eastern Europe.


  19. #19
    Fried Gold Polymath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Manchester, UK
    Posts
    331
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    As a UK citizen and the son of a Polish immigrant, I feel more than a little qualified to speak about this.
    In WW2, the Polish people got it in the neck from first the Germans and then the Russians. After seeing his contemporaries sent to concentration camps by the Germans, or just plain shot, my father thought things might have been slightly better under the Russians. Unfortunately they just rounded up his whole family and sent them to Siberia, where my great-grandmother starved herself to death trying to make sure my dad and aunt had enough food to survive. After managing to get away, they lived in Kenya for a few years, then decided to move to England, hoping for a better way of life (like most people who have been trapped under an oppressive system!)
    My father arrived in this country aged fifteen, without being able to speak a word of English. You might guess that someone who had seen what "dog-eat-dog" really means would have no problem with a life of crime and selfishness, but in fact the opposite was true. He studied chemical engineering, learnt to speak English, and after many years built himself up to be vice-president of a large UK multinational, responsible in turn for America, Canada and, the irony, Germany.
    If the borders were shut, as some of you advocate, your country would lose the benefit of people like this, who truly know what hardship is and who truly know what hard work is, and are not content to sit back on their backsides with their hand out waiting for state benefits (unlike many people in the UK). You also do a great disservice to those people who have already helped build your country up after the second world war. Or had you forgotten that in Europe many countries desperately needed immigrants to make up for the men who died fighting? This was certainly the case in the UK, hence the large influx of Asians and black people. (I don't know what the 'politically correct' phrase for black people is, and don't much care, given my background I know how stupid racism is). I have seen for myself both in my family, and in the families of other immigrants how hard these people work to make a living, only to see the ignorant call them every name under the sun. (I count among my closest friends an Afghan, an Italian, a Nigerian, a Jamaican, I could go on, all of whose families emigrated here, all of whom's families are very successful here).
    If this kind of border closing being mentioned was the norm I would not be here today nor would most of my friends, and most European countries would probably still be struggling to raise a population, so it seems a very bad idea to me just on prima facie.
    Apart from that, some of you don't seem to realise what the EU is, namely an organisation whose main tenet is to encourage the free flow of 'factors', i.e. goods, companies and workers. If you are a member state of the EU, your borders are open to all other member states, like it or not.
    As far as all that voting allocation stuff, I don't know. I just find it intensively amusing that that the French and the Germans seem intent on having everything themselves, having previously been at each other's throats for the past hundreds of years.
    Just remember this: if you close borders, you prolong the divisions that have kept the human race in the gutter for thousands of years.
    OK, that's the end of my rant.

    P.S. the theory that spontaneous public protest can overthrow a dictatorial system usually ends up with lessons like Tiananmen Square.

  20. #20
    SitePoint Zealot Ambr0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    131
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi,
    it's me again
    I thing you didn't get an important point here, CJ.
    We won't be able to cross borders and enter the EU until we meet some conditions, conditions that will approach us to the EU. One of this is that the Romanian companies must be strong enough to compete against EU companies, and when they'll meet this condition, they'll pay the ppl as better as they are paid in EU, so ppl, won't run anymore in the current EU countries. However, you should know that Albania is the poorest country in Europe, and they're not even thinking to negociate the entering in the EU because they have a lot of things to settle, much more than we even do.

    The number of Romanian and EE immigrants in the EU countries that work legally and fair is much greater than the one that are stealling (I agree that some of them r goin' in the EU just to steal).

    Our problem (of the EE countries) was that over the centuries we were like a tampoon between the Western Europe and the Russians, moving tribes (the huns, etc.). We always had problems with that.

    And about comunism, we got rid of it in 1989, at the Romanian revolution. On December 22 1989, Ceausescu & wife were sentenced to death, put in front of the wall, and shot by a platoon of soldiers. Thousands of ppl died in those terrible days. My mother slept with the knife under the pellow. In the night (I was 5 but I can remember this) you heard fire shots outside between Security members (the commies) and population.

    And if I start about telling you how many child molesting ppl from the EU countries come into Romania (esp. Belgium, England and France) to find some new play ground... But that's not a characteristic of the ppl living in the EU, isn't it? or it is? As stealing it's not a characteristic of the ppl living in EE.
    Soccer Directory | Travel Directory
    (free - reciprocal will give you featured status)


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •