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  1. #1
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    Paypal is screwing me for $210,- :(

    1 month ago our online gaming tournament(ladder) with an inscription fee of $10,- ended, with nice prizes etc. But when the tournament was almost over 1 guy that payed for multiple players asked a refund for 7 accounts. He requested a refund for no reason at all, no problems occured or whatever, he just wants to rip me off (the accounts they payed for have been used for more then a month!).

    I send paypal a clear description of what happened but they accepted his refunds, but not only that that also charged me $20,- per refund for 'looking in the case' or something.. They just took that off my credit, but they send me another mail that they will try to make the other guy pay for it, but after 2 weeks they said they couldnt get it and now i must pay for this crap ?! I really don't understand it at all, first they accept his refund, then they make me pay for paypal 'service' and then i get a mail that they will try to get the money back from him which obvious didnt work?

    We only had $100,- reserved for this kind of problems so their goes most of our profit for many hours work. I'm really mad and first wanted to post here before i mail them because i doubt i can stay descent in a conversation with them right now.

  2. #2
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    Welcome to Paypal.

    You're not alone -- they mistreat people like this all the time, some people have lost thousands.

    http://www.Paypalsucks.com
    http://www.paypalwarning.com

    There are more.

    They have also been the target of atleast one class action lawsuit.

    This is why, when someone is getting into ecommerce, I never recommend paypal. I always advise against it.

    Also see

    http://news.com.com/2100-1017-842240.html
    http://www.aboutpaypal.com

    I recommend switching to a different service. Either a real merchant account or a system like 2checkout.com

    Sure, someone needs a real credit card to use those services, but people with real credit cards are less apt to request a fraudulent charge back than a 13 year old who funds his paypal account by selling everquest items on ebay.
    Chris Beasley - I publish content and ecommerce sites.
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  3. #3
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    This isn't a PayPal issue.

    If you were to use 2Checkout, or any CC provider for that matter, as long as the kid used a credit card, you'd still be wide open to the chargeback.

    Being a full time eBay seller and ecommerce store owner I am well aware of the ins and outs of PayPal and merchant issues. I've even had to file a chargeback myself at one point, where I bought merchandise that was not as described.

    Even after receiving the merchandise I was still able to file the chargeback! Of course, I had to ship back the not-as-described merchandise, but credit cards favor the buyer.

    The best thing you can do to avoid this from happening again is to either get a signed contract, or simply not engage in this type of business. The younger your customers are, the more likely one of them is going to perform a transaction resulting in a chargeback.

    Or of course, you could have just given a refund and avoided the hassle.
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  4. #4
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    Jon, the kid isn't doing a chargeback. He didn't pay via credit card, he paid by Paypal.

    Real banks have rules about chargebacks, procedures. They do not just issue default judgements for the card holder.

    With a real credit card processor for someone to do a chargeback they'll have to go through those procedures and they might end up with something on their credit report about it.

    With paypal, they don't.
    Chris Beasley - I publish content and ecommerce sites.
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  5. #5
    Shiny Content! Pandrogas's Avatar
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    Just curious:

    Did the person ask for his refunds from you?

    Or did he go straight to PayPal?
    Matthew Gowdy---AKA---Pandrogas
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  6. #6
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    PayPal is not a merchant account, though. That kind of problem will happen with ANY credit card processor that is not a merchant account. This means third party processors like CCNow, PaySystems, 2Checkout, PayPal, the list goes on.

    Now if you have a merchant account, that is a different story. When you use a third party processor like PayPal this is the price you pay.
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  7. #7
    boiler up blackdog's Avatar
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    one difference between using paypal and a credit card is that if you call mastercard and say i paid $30 for blank and didn't get it, mastercard will say whatever, and return you your $30 out of pocket. its just not worth looking into for them. paypal on the other hand will freeze the seller's assets. even if they have more than the disputed $30 in their account, every penny will be frozen

  8. #8
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    Hmm and i thought paypal was a pretty well respected service, the $210,- will never been seen again i guess. Dont know what to do now, if we will host another tournament we could just not accept paypal but this will cost us many signups. Can you request a refund for a donation? If not i could only accept donations as inscription. I'm sure most participators wouldnt have a problem with it if i explain the situation. But on the other hand i dont feel like doing anything trough paypal again.

    Btw, the kid went straight to paypal and didnt respond to my mail when i asked for a reason.

  9. #9
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    For the kind of service you are offering, I would not suggest using PayPal. If there are younger audiences involved you will probably get a lot of chargebacks and reversals.

    Why not ask them to mail in a money order?
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  10. #10
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    To clarify: buyers have several options when paying through PayPal. They may pay with a credit card, bank account, funds in their PayPal account, eBay Anything Points, etc.

    PayPal has a Buyer Complaint Process described here: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/websc...-buyer-outside

    This process only covers the non-receipt of tangible goods (i.e., a buyer would *not* be able to dispute a payment for an online service).

    If a buyer uses a credit card to make a PayPal payment, they may contact their credit card bank to dispute the charge. PayPal handles this in the same manner that merchant account provider do: pass it on to the merchant. In *very* limited circumstances, PayPal and merchant service providers can successfully challenge a chargeback but it is very rare for "card not present" transactions.

    PayPal offers *more* seller protection than merchant account providers via its Seller Protection Policy, but it also requires the shipment of physical goods. See: http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr...ctions-outside

    Some things you may consider to minimize your risk are: don't let one PayPal account pay for multiple entries and take into account that "Verified" buyers with "Confirmed" addresses are generally less risky.
    Pricetack - sell your goods with automatic markdowns


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