Learning Javascript?

[Poop_Shoot]

Hello everyone I would just like to ask in general how long did it take you to kearn Javascript to the point that you felt comfortable and confident! I am finding that I seem to be having a harder time with it than others! I have been learnig javascript for 4 years now and still find myself having trouble grasping the big picture? I would think after so long one would know their way around the language what ever it maybe! I guess basically I would like to know if it is normal to be so confused about javascript?

[vgarcia]

Moved to a more appropriate forum.

I've been learning JS for a long time. I'll be honest; I wasn't too serious about it until a little over a year ago though. I'm comfortable enough using it nowadays but wouldn't call myself a javascript god or anything. However, I can always figure out how to get something working .

[beetle]

I think the difficulty of learning javascript is superceded by lack of understanding basic programming concepts.

I first started my computer science education back in 1996 - I took CompSci I and II back in high school (Turbo Pascal). Even though I haven't typed a lick of Pascal since then, those classes gave me a superb foundation in basic programming/scripting techniques. Variables, datatypes, primitives, literals, control structures, functions and parameters, arrays, and all those basic, language-independent concepts.

I think having a good understanding of this knowledge is imperative, and unfortunately, can difficult to obtain without a tutor or some sort of classroom instruction -- unless you happen to be a very astute book reader/learner. Some will "get it" sooner and easier than others.

Javascript, specifically, I started playing with in 2000, and am 100% self-taught. I've never used a book - only online resources: tutorials, scripts, and forums. I'm just one of those people that "gets it". [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Hope that helps.

[themissingelf]

I've been using it on and off for about 3 years now. I realised lately that it is beginning to sink in - I found that I was able to write my own (albeit basic) scripts from scratch. However, I regularly get caught out by anomolies. I still like to check new stuff with experts.

[Poop_Shoot]

I guess I just fall into the "hopeless" category!

[Vincent Puglia]

Hi Poop,

You are not 'hopeless'. You think, which is more than many people who post and put up sites do. In fact, it is because you 'think' that I don't always spell out everything (beetle, for example, used 'cryptically' for one of my posts to you). [I used to teach, so I tend to believe the more effort someone puts into learning something the better they learn it. Immediate answers are only good for specific problem solving]

As beetle said -- it is the basic concepts you need to learn. Everything else is syntax. This is true for all languages (even the spoken ones).

Re how long: I took my only programming course sometime in the early 80's -- pl/c, a subset of pl/1 [a mainframe language]. I then taught myself dBASE, a database language, from the manual. C, C++, Pascal, SQL, and a few others. I first learned javascript with "javascript in 24 hours" and at www.htmlgoodies.com -- my C background helped a lot.
I still commit no-nos (everyone does) especially if I don't bother thinking it out first, testing it out second, rethinking it, and retesting it.

Vinny

[beetle]

Hehe, I've never been a teacher, so I'm sure you got me there, Vinny.

[Vincent Puglia]

You've never been 50+ in years either

Vinny

[Poop_Shoot]

Well I think I just need some real experience! I have never really written anything complicated! Maybe I should just take some javascript classes I sure they give you plenty of homework? Thats a good idea for a site! Different programming scenarios and problems to solve?


Somehow this doesnt make me feel any better!

[Tesp]

Dear Mr. Poop Shoot,

Javascript, like most "modern" programming languages from C to Java to whatever, have been so widely documented that inconsistancies abound and standards highly debated.
I've been programming for about 30 years and still believe Pascal is the most reasonably clean language.
The problem with Javascript is mostly due to browser differences and inadequate standards setting as well as lack of support by Microsoft.
All in all, if you understand your "objects" well and the difference between single and double quotes, you're half-way home.

regards,
Tesp

[beetle]

Tesp, that's fairly true. To be most accurate, the largest inconsistencies between browsers is their DOM, which is exposed to Javascript, but not actually part of JS itself.

That's not to say there are no differences, however. Microsoft's JScript does differ from Netscape's Javascript in some ways. These are a large source of the inconsistencies you mention.

[Vincent Puglia]

lack of support by Microsoft.

Actually, it's probably M$'s initial desire to make javascript accessible to 'Everyman' that has caused many of the problems -- to wit, IE's habit of ignoring closing tags, its handling of selection lists, and Front Page's disgusting wysiwyging (at a par to dreamweaver's attempts at mystifying code)

Pascal is the most reasonably clean language

From what I remember, I have to agree; though, I haven't coded any in some 20 odd years

Vinny

[beetle]

Hehe, the only thing I clearly remember about Pascal anymore is the assignment operator, which was :=

Very different from anything you see today.

[Jeff Lange]

Pascal was a good solid language.

I sort of switched into Javascript/PHP now though, kinda ditched the older stuff for now (as I'm pretty much only doing web-development right now)

Javascript is a neat language in that it is an Object based procedural language, allowing you to use procedural code, or object oriented code, sort of like PHP, only PHP is a procedural based language with object support.

I find them both interesting, and enjoy working with both of them. (I learned PHP and Javascript from practice and reading the manual (PHP) and a book I have (javascript)).

Solid programming principals should be learned before taking the dive into Javascript, because you can write some pretty eloquent stuff, provided you know how.

[Poop_Shoot]

All points that I can agree with! And I may be making it out to be a bigger problem than it really is! Most of the time I can complete simple task with very little problems! But I have never really written anything usfull to others or with the abillity to work in many different browsers! I am going to use beetle for example( Notice I spelled beetle correct this time.)! I have been to your site many times and have used alot of the javascript classes that you have posted! What does it take to write scripts like that! Basically I want my script to be usefull to others and leave them in awe! The same way I feel when I look at the scripts create by alot of forum memebers! Roy for example I believe its www.javascriptfx.com! Or www.youngpup.net! I just dont see how a human mind can write such thing? Maybe I am just slow! Where can I learn basic programming fundimentals! A couple of the books I have read had primmers on this subject! But did not go into detail! Thanx again for all the helpfull points

Jon

[Vincent Puglia]

Hi jon,

have you seen my site? While I don't claim any of the code in it is earthshaking, the explanations are probably worth the visit since they demonstrate how problems are solved.
BTW: Roy's site is neat -- but then, he is into graphics -- like singing, it's something I can't do.
Vinny

[Poop_Shoot]

I found a really helpfull paged with alot of OOP information!

http://www.jvoegele.com/software/langcomp.html

RE: Vincent, Yes I have been to your site before and have found helpfull thing there!