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  1. #1
    SitePoint Enthusiast scslawin's Avatar
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    Treeloot (www.treeloot.com) is going to do, by their projections, $10 million in revenue this year. Is that incredible, or what? There is practically NOTHING to that site at all, and they've got a staff of 30 people behind it.

    $10 million bucks.

    What are you thoughts?

  2. #2
    Lord of the Underworld
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    The idea behind the site is very smart...

    giving away money always works........

    Adam

  3. #3
    AdSpeed.com Son Nguyen's Avatar
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    OOh yeah, the monkey is here! The banner "punch the monkey" I consider the pioneer for interactive banners
    - Son Nguyen
    AdSpeed.com - Ad Serving and Ad Management Made Easy

  4. #4
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    OK, they made $10 million by giving away money. What am I missing here?
    Dave
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  5. #5
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    Originally posted by torifan
    OK, they made $10 million by giving away money. What am I missing here?
    Possibly the great business model Treeloot has - when you play the game you constantly perform sponsor stuff to "earn banabucks" or something - an average user wouldn't even know he'd be clicking sponsor stuff ... and the game generates a LOT of pageviews, go figure how that falls together with a good CPM advertiser ...
    Mike Ossendrijver
    Sales, AdSensor - Quality Online Marketing
    mike@adsensor.com

  6. #6
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    well, the thing you are missing is this:
    10 million in revenue does not equal 10 million in profit.
    countless internet companies have bit the dust this year who made far more than 10 million in revenue.
    Find out what their profit is, they'll look very less incredible.

    If I sell them 1 million in advertising and agree that that would be for a months advertising on allclicks.com and in turn they sold ME one month of advertising on treeloot and charged me 1 million, they just generated 1 million in revenue.

    profit fuels the engine, revenue pretends to.
    http://www.standardinternet.com

  7. #7
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    Good point Ron!

    I wonder how much Treeloot has spent on advertising this year ...
    Mike Ossendrijver
    Sales, AdSensor - Quality Online Marketing
    mike@adsensor.com

  8. #8
    SitePoint Enthusiast scslawin's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Standard Internet Ron
    well, the thing you are missing is this:
    10 million in revenue does not equal 10 million in profit.
    countless internet companies have bit the dust this year who made far more than 10 million in revenue.
    Find out what their profit is, they'll look very less incredible.
    Their profit is huge. Not $10 million, but millions in clear profits. There are a number of articles I've read on them talking about how profitable they've been. They're now launching a second version of the online game, http://www.carhunt.com.

    The countless internet companies that have made well over $10 million in revenue and have gone under simply don't know how to operate an online business. Most see incredible early returns, then based on that first revenue overhire and waste huge amounts of money on unnecessary and inflated salaries as well as non-cost-effective marketing campaigns.

    You wanna know about an online success story that should shame the other big name web business failures? Try:

    http://www.fruitcake.com

    The site was launched two years ago. They sell just four individual products and on a typical December day they ship 100,000 orders. Annually, the company handles--all internally--1.5 million orders. The company has 85 regular employees, but during the Christmas season they employ a total of about 700 workers to handle the rush.

    The big thing is that this company had it's backend in order long before they set up their Web presence. These high revenue, zero-profit dot coms simply don't understand how to handle that backend.

  9. #9
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    I still don't see what's so amazing about a company with 10 million in revenue, some of which is profit.
    scslawin, can you give us a url for a page describing its business and profits?

    Thanks, Ron
    http://www.standardinternet.com

  10. #10
    SitePoint Enthusiast scslawin's Avatar
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    I'll look and see if I can find links to the articles. What is so amazing about the dollars the site is generating is that the site itself is quite poor. There is no content, the product looks cheesy, and the unabashed sponsor click-mongering is annoying. When you do actually win "monkey bucks" by taking part in the game, the things you can spend those dollars on have virtually no real value whatsoever.

    This site, as successful as it is, goes against the adage that "content is king". Content is king--unless you can dangle the offer of huge prize money in a game format that makes the odds of actually winning a real money prize virtually microscopic.

  11. #11
    SitePoint Enthusiast scslawin's Avatar
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    Look at the business model for http://www.cyberrebate.com. Here's a company that is raking in huge dollars--HUGE dollars--by selling products for 20 times their cost, but offering the idea that you'll actually get many of those products for FREE when all is said and done.

    Cyberrebate charges $70 for a single jazz music CD. $70! Of course the pitch is that in the end it's free, because you get a 100% rebate.

    I've followed them closely and have read a very large number of reports from people who purchase through Cyberrebate. Many have actually spent $3,000 or $4,000 in a SINGLE order at their Web site. Of course they rationalize that they'll be getting it all back (eventually) making the whole deal FREE.

    One woman wrote that she just completed her entire Christmas shopping list at Cyberrebate. Her statement was: "My Christmas shopping this year didn't cost me a dime! I got all of my gifts at Cyberrebate this year. I spent $4,700 and I'll be getting all of that back!"

    Yes, she probably will...in June or July. Clever folks that they are, Cyberrebate knows a couple of things:

    1) Make it difficult to obtain the rebate and many people won't follow the procedure properly and thus never get their money back;

    2) A certain percentage won't even bother with the rebate at all;

    3) They can hold your money for 3-6 months and earn interest on it even if you DO follow the procedures and properly request your rebate.

    They advertise nearly $40 million in rebates have been issued so far. Their revenue model is ingenious.

    Did you know that in the brick-and-mortar world, less than 20% of people eligible for a product purchase rebate actually follow through and get the rebate? More than 80% don't even bother or forget to do so. Even if you turn that number upside down on the Web--let's say 80% *DO* follow through and get their rebate from Cyberrebate--the profit margin is still very, very healthy.

  12. #12
    SitePoint Enthusiast scslawin's Avatar
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    Here's some articles on TreeLoot. By the way, I misspoke above: they have 14 employees, not 30.

    http://www.zdnet.com/yil/content/mag/0002/treeloot.html

    http://199.97.97.16/contWriter/cnd7/...t_nytimes.html

    http://www.1to1.com/publications/ins...LgKQ4JoP48TN9W

    I can't remember where I read that TreeLoot's profits are approximately 50% of annual revenue. I'll keep looking and see if I can find it.

  13. #13
    SitePoint Enthusiast
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    damn scslawin,
    you are chock full of info!
    I'm going to go read it.

    inresponse to your statement:
    "" What is so amazing about the dollars the site is generating is that the site itself is quite poor. There is no content, the product looks cheesy, and the unabashed sponsor click-mongering is annoying."""

    I would say,"you've obviously never seen clickheretofind.com"

    And cyberrebate sounds like a scam! a good one, but..............
    http://www.standardinternet.com

  14. #14
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    call me a skeptic. I just don't see it being a big profit center for long. Incentivized clicks and cpm deals are disappearing rapidly. Isn't that what treeloot is based on?
    If someone wanted to buy incentivized clicks from me right now, I could deliever the world.
    http://www.standardinternet.com

  15. #15
    SitePoint Wizard wdmny's Avatar
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    Maybe they did make that much, but think of how much they DO spend on advertising. The punch/zap the monkey banner is everywhere, escpecially high profile sites. Think about how much that is in advertisiing. Big $$$$.

  16. #16
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    Try mousebucks.com i think they are alot better as they are 100 percent legimate. I know quite a few people who have won from mousebucks and recieved there prize.

  17. #17
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    I feel obligated to say that mousebucks is a Standard Internet production and I have no idea who pokercents is, but obviously, I'm happy to hear good feedback from where ever it may come.

    howdy Pokercents.
    http://www.standardinternet.com

  18. #18
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    Hi ron,

    thanks, no you dont know me hehe .

  19. #19
    ********* Addict jaiem's Avatar
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    I don't know that company intimately but assuming it's a medium sized business then $10 million is rather poor. I know a lot of small mom&pop companies that make $10 million (gross) a year and are hardly considered successful.

    As Ron said, revenue and profit are two totally different things. Look at Amazon. Great revenues and not a profit in sight!
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  20. #20
    SitePoint Enthusiast scslawin's Avatar
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    Jaiem:

    They're small. 14 employees. They have no tangible product or goods. Very low overhead. They haven't paid out even $1 million in prize money over the life of all of their online ventures.

    Look closely and you'll clearly see the huge profit built into their business model.

  21. #21
    Your Lord and Master, Foamy gold trophy Hierophant's Avatar
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    Originally posted by jaiem
    As Ron said, revenue and profit are two totally different things. Look at Amazon. Great revenues and not a profit in sight!
    Amazon is profitable and has been since third quarter of 1999.
    Wayne Luke
    ------------


  22. #22
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    can any of u agree on anything, hehe?

    yes no yes no yes no yes no yes no ...

    entertaining thread

  23. #23
    ********* Addict jaiem's Avatar
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    Originally posted by W. Luke
    Originally posted by jaiem
    As Ron said, revenue and profit are two totally different things. Look at Amazon. Great revenues and not a profit in sight!
    Amazon is profitable and has been since third quarter of 1999.
    Hate to differ with you but they aren't profitable.

    According to Yahoo Finance they have a loss of -$3.45 per share as of 12/21/00 and the stock price is down 80% since the start of the year.

    Growing revenues doesn't mean profit. If Amazon ever posted a profit, even just 1 cent the share price would sky rocket. They're burning capital and junk-bond sales.

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  24. #24
    SitePoint Member
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    Originally posted by Standard Internet Ron
    And cyberrebate sounds like a scam!
    Hmm, aren't you the one awalys flaming people for calling your company a scam? You don't have a right to slander them, they are perfectly a legit company.
    I sense jeaously here cause mousebucks tries to emulate treeloot. hmmm...


  25. #25
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    Hmm, aren't you the one awalys flaming people for calling your company a scam? You don't have a right to slander them, they are perfectly a legit company.
    I sense jeaously here cause mousebucks tries to emulate treeloot. hmmm...

    [/B]
    Bacon, what a thoughtful first post to this forum! Your obviously a follower of my and my company's career. Having followed my career closely, you'll know that I call a spade a spade.
    As far as mousebucks goes, I don't even know the color of the front page. That's about #10 on my list of important programs we're running.

    Here's a challenge for you:
    drop me a message in 6 months to prove to me you're still here and maybe then I'll take anything you have to say seriously.
    http://www.standardinternet.com


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