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  1. #1
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    SEO From The Start - Basics?

    OK. A year and a half in and the service has begun the beta phase - a company will test it for 1-3 months. I'm their developer and web designer too...and copy writer and marketer...their jack of all trades. Some time before those 3 months are up I'm supposed to start getting traffic to the site - that means, in addition to PPC and such, SEO. But the pay is sketchy, hourly at best, most of the expectation is that even though I don't work for them I have a contract so I get 5% of the gross profits of this new service. So money to spend on the latest greatest tools like WebPosition Gold is not something I want to spend personally when I've never needed to spend money to do things right on the Net before (aside from hosting and limited, controlled PPC advertising).

    Where do I get started...I've got aspen's Website Publisher site bookmarked (thanks aspen!). I grasp the basics of keyword density, using title alt heading tags and anchor text containing keywords etc. But how to get started...

    Is there a free keyword analysis tool out there to determine which phrase to optimize for? Or, if a very cheap one, how much does it cost?

    Is there a free alternative to WebPosition to let me figure out all the neat stuff it tells me? About optimizing pages for search engines/how optimized they are?

    Are there free/cheap services out there for analyzing the results of SEO?

    The plan is to find some way to figure out a keyword phrase to target and put it in alt, title, anchor text on the homepage. I will also link to the site from their other two sites with anchor text containing the phrase - their two sites are both PR5 - and I'll sneak a link in from websitegoodies.com's homepage which is PR6 instead of the useless txtswap.com text link. Even though my site has nothing to do with theirs...I don't mind. Only problem is that I can't change the text too much, but I'm sure I can work the phrase into an anchor or two and at least once into the copy on a page without much text on it otherwise.

    Good plan? Bad plan? Suggestions? What else can I do?

    And again, how do I figure out what my magical keyphrase to target's gonna be?

    Thanks everyone

  2. #2
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    For started make a keyword effective index, or KEI.
    Chris Beasley - I publish content and ecommerce sites.
    Featured Article: Free Comprehensive SEO Guide
    My Guide to Building a Successful Website
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  3. #3
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    So keywords are important. The two main things my service deals with are customer relationship management (CRM) and sales force automation (SFA). So I used those to start with.

    Thanks webby for te EBK link - the program's great. It's like wordtracker but free - finds related terms, and builds a KEI type number from searches/competition on alltheweb.

    But I'm still not sure where to go here. CRM/SFA keywords are huge competition thanks to tons and tons of business articles and text - there's not all that much actual competition in the software/service area. And the only ones with any kind of KEI are real specific with few searches and I can't get that specific on the site itself - like "customer relationship management software for car dealer" - and the copy itself has to push that the service is entirely online not software which is an important purchase factor for it.

    Do I make gateway pages or something to target specific phrases and hide links to them? Hidden text and 1 pixel images are too obviously wrong - but maybe linking a part of the design - a block of blue or something - to a gateway page so it gets spidered?

    I'm kinda stuck on how to find the right phrase to target.

    I tried integrating "web" with the terms for someone looking for a web-based solution for CRM or SFA - apparently there are no searches for anything like this and anything that comes up with like 20 searches at most is a KEI 0.

    ..:/

  4. #4
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    Also, result 1 and 3 at Google for Sales Force Automation are PR0 pages. The homepages have PR but not the pages being returned - I thought pagerank was PAGE rank so how are PR0 coming up among #2 PR7 and #4 PR7? Then #5 is PR0 again but most of these pages have PR7 on their homepages.

    What's up with that?

  5. #5
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    Do I make gateway pages or something to target specific phrases and hide links to them? Hidden text and 1 pixel images are too obviously wrong - but maybe linking a part of the design - a block of blue or something - to a gateway page so it gets spidered?
    Never do anything like that.


    I'm kinda stuck on how to find the right phrase to target.
    Use a KEI to pick the path of least resistance.

    What's up with that?
    Likely a bug... Google toolbar PR's have been buggy since like early June.
    Chris Beasley - I publish content and ecommerce sites.
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  6. #6
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aspen
    Use a KEI to pick the path of least resistance.
    ...if only any of the 2000 phrases I generated so far had a KEI of over 2 with this software (that being something like 1 million competition for 2000 searches).

    Does Google have word root matching? Would relation on a page match relationship in a search? What about singular or plurals on a page matching the opposite in the searc?

  7. #7
    SitePoint Wizard
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    Guys can you take this discussion to another forum or private messaging because you are making me feel so lazy Man, I am so basic, unscientific and unmathematical when I plan and implement seo. I just go look at the overture tool, type in a couple of keywords that directly describe my services and then optimise my sales content for a few of the highly requested terms and use my personal judgment on what my target market will most likely search for. If I had the work ethic and understnding of aspen then I wouldn't feel so bad right now and would also have a better ranking too I guess.

  8. #8
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    No kiddin'. As you wrote that I was using the Overture tool for the first time in almost 3 years.

    Already it's made this much easier. I've found some terms with a few hundred searches a month but under 100k results at Google. I think that's good....the #1 result for one term is a keyword stuffed SE page where all the images are named the keyword and all the tags are the keyword...it redirects visitors through JS it seems back to their real site. How come they can make effective gateway pages but I never should? The #3 and #4 results are duplicate pages on two domains.

    How come everyone using the bad tactics gets all the traffic.

  9. #9
    Serial Publisher silver trophy aspen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Grossman
    ...if only any of the 2000 phrases I generated so far had a KEI of over 2 with this software (that being something like 1 million competition for 2000 searches).

    Does Google have word root matching? Would relation on a page match relationship in a search? What about singular or plurals on a page matching the opposite in the searc?
    Dan, IMO, doing a KEI using results returned is a bad idea because many keywords are simply common words that appear on many pages but do not have significant competition for.

    I use search popularity crossed with PR of the #1 result for my KEI -- that gives me a better idea of how hard I'll have to work to get #1.
    Chris Beasley - I publish content and ecommerce sites.
    Featured Article: Free Comprehensive SEO Guide
    My Guide to Building a Successful Website
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  10. #10
    SitePoint Wizard
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Grossman
    How come everyone using the bad tactics gets all the traffic.
    Just because some people use sofisticated mathametical based theories for SEO doesn't mean they deserve more traffic. The person that has the most relevant content will get and deserves the most traffic. In my opinion as long as you structure your site correctly, seek relevant incoming links and develop quality content the you will get rewarded with high search engine rankings.

  11. #11
    SEO Link Building Master I, Brian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billiousness
    In my opinion as long as you structure your site correctly, seek relevant incoming links and develop quality content the you will get rewarded with high search engine rankings.
    I think most webmasters think they structure their sites correctly, and seek to not only have good content, but also backlinks. Often they are very wrong and suffer with reduced traffic from their potential as a result.

    Learning about how Search Engine ranking works, so that the site potential for traffic can be maximised - and then putting it all into practice - is precisely what SEO is about.

    Simply the way of the world.
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  12. #12
    SitePoint Zealot Dwarf_Fighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronicles
    ....Learning about how Search Engine ranking works, so that the site potential for traffic can be maximised - and then putting it all into practice - is precisely what SEO is about.
    But we should also always be aware of the marginal cost of SEO. At the very beginning it's simple(r). You put the keywords to title, use <h>s, get good anchored backlinks etc. etc. But as you progress, benefit/effort ratio sharply diminishes.

    So, one should be aware of where Learning about how Search Engine ranking works is not worth the effort for him.

    Just my 2 cents.
    [Important] I'm not from staff of sitepoint. BUT:
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    likely that, someone else has experienced your problem before
    and your answer lies in the archives.

  13. #13
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    alternatives to Wordtracker

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Grossman
    Thanks webby for te EBK link - the program's great. It's like wordtracker but free - finds related terms, and builds a KEI type number from searches/competition on alltheweb.
    Dan or webby (that is if webby is an SPF member - got a funny feeling it may be a resource ;-) would you mind posting a link to this application (EBK link)?
    Last edited by Chas; Oct 16, 2003 at 07:28.

  14. #14
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    Here ya go, Even Better Keywords 2.0. It uses Overture to find alternative forms of keywords you enter and checks AllTheWeb for search popularity:

    http://www.searchguild.com/utils/setup.exe

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    Thanks Dan!

    from running a quick keyword check it doesn't look like its distinguishing singular and plural - oh well it was free after all.

  16. #16
    Freelance Web Designer KeithMcL's Avatar
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    Sorry for bringing up an old thread, but what would be considered a good KEI? I'm using the free version of WebCEO and am trying to come up with good keywords for my site. Should I be looking at keywords with a KEI of above 10, 50, 100 or even higher?

  17. #17
    Freelance Web Designer KeithMcL's Avatar
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    Also, would choosing keywords with a high KEI help when it comes to Google Adwords?

  18. #18
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeithMcL
    Also, would choosing keywords with a high KEI help when it comes to Google Adwords?
    No, you don't have to compete with the thousands of results for those keywords, you only have to compete with the advertisers, or outbid them. KEI is pretty much irrelevant when you're paying. The trick to getting the most traffic for the least money with AdWords is achieving high click-through ratios, which means bidding on keywords related to your site and writing appropriate ads. Trying lots of variations on ad text helps find the highest CTR versions relatively easy.

  19. #19
    Freelance Web Designer KeithMcL's Avatar
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    Thanks for your reply Dan. I recently opened an Adwords account and it was slowed 4 times in the space of about 2 weeks

    I've paused it for now until I learn to write better ad copy and choose better keywords

    Back to my other question... how high a KEI should I be looking for in the results returned by WebCEO?

  20. #20
    Follow Me On Twitter: @djg gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy Dan Grossman's Avatar
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    An educated guess... no matter how you figure out KEI, assuming you have used a wide variety of applicable keywords to your site, your KEI are only relative to eachother. There's no set number as the competition difference between your topic and topics unrelated to your site means the KEIs are on different scales. KEI would show you which of YOUR possible keywords are easiest to achieve high rankings on. You could compare to a smaller industry and their KEIs could be much much higher because there is much less competition for those keywords, but that'd be irrelevant to you and doesn't mean your highest KEI's aren't still your easiest keywords to rank well on, even if the easiest are not that easy.

  21. #21
    Freelance Web Designer KeithMcL's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies Dan. They've helped a lot


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