SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    3
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    How to replace table tags with nested div tags?

    Hi, first post and I'm not sure if this is the right place, so sorry if not.

    Anyway I have a client who's seo guy told him I need to make some design changes. To me the site looks good like it is but as they say the client is always right.

    The site is a football site that has up to date information about teams, game scores, players etc. I think it gets good enough traffic considering the number of competition sites, but of course clients always want more.

    He wants to get rid of the nice almost black background and wants it to be mint green - ugh - but I can change that easy.

    He also wants me to change the font from Verdana to BlackJack. I took a look and it will work OK I guess http://www.fontsquirrel.com/fonts/BlackJack
    Again, I can change that easy enough too.

    The site has several short videos and he says they need "transcripts". Since all the videos are about football I can spend a little time coming up with something and add that to them.
    Not so easy, I know design, not writing content, but I can do it.

    Sooooo - to get to my problem.
    The site has quite a few tables with season game scores etc. and now he says the table tags must go!
    I have seen a lot of people say that tables are bad, so his request is valid even if I'm not happy about it.
    I can replace the tables with a bunch of nested div tags, but this will be a lot of work and I'm not sure how to go about it. I want to do it once - the right way - and not end up doing it again.

    So anyone that has already done this got any tips that can help me not waste my time?

  2. #2
    It's all Geek to me silver trophybronze trophy
    ralph.m's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, AU
    Posts
    24,330
    Mentioned
    463 Post(s)
    Tagged
    8 Thread(s)
    Hi WestSideGuy. Welcome to the forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by WestSideGuy View Post
    The site has quite a few tables with season game scores etc. and now he says the table tags must go!
    I have seen a lot of people say that tables are bad ...
    Hey, not so fast. Tables are an important part of HTML and are not bad. The only bad thing is using them for the wrong purpose. If you have tabular data (that is, data arranged in rows and columns) then a table is the right HTML element to use, and anything else is wrong. So take a look at what the table is being used for before you decide to throw it out.

  3. #3
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    16,870
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    The correct tags to use for tabular data are table tags. Season game scores are tabular data therefore using any tag for them other than table tags would be incorrect.

    It is the use of table tags in the HTML for page layout that is wrong as all of the page content should be marked up using the most semantically correct tags available (with div being the fallback for when no other tag is suitable).

    Where a table is being used for layout then you can still create a table like layout after replacing the table tags with more semantically correct ones by applying display:table, display:table-row and display:table-cell in the CSS (although if you do that then you retain all the disadvantages that table layouts have other than having fixed the HTML.


    Tags that do not semantically identify their content such as a table identifying the page layout or tabular data wrapped in div tags are bad. Tags that semantically identify their content such as a table identifying tabular data are good.
    Stephen J Chapman

    javascriptexample.net, Book Reviews, follow me on Twitter
    HTML Help, CSS Help, JavaScript Help, PHP/mySQL Help, blog
    <input name="html5" type="text" required pattern="^$">

  4. #4
    Life is not a malfunction gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
    TechnoBear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Argyll, Scotland
    Posts
    6,444
    Mentioned
    274 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    Sounds to me as if WestSideGuy's client is worrying about the effects of Google's Puffin update:

    http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show...SEO!&p=5649325
    Don't serve your porridge and then go out for a walk.

  5. #5
    Avid Logophile silver trophy
    ParkinT's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    2,343
    Mentioned
    192 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by WestSideGuy View Post
    So anyone that has already done this got any tips that can help me not waste my time?
    Welcome to the Forums, @WestSideGuy ;
    Considering the constant flux in Web "standards", the concern for Search Engine Ranking and the fickle nature of most web-savvy users, I would recommend you simply IGNORE YOUR CLIENT.
    Just tell him directly that YOU ARE THE WEB EXPERT and he has hired you to make these sort of decisions; not based on "the winds of change" but on your hard-earned experience.
    Don't be yourself. Be someone a little nicer. -Mignon McLaughlin, journalist and author (1913-1983)


    Git is for EVERYONE
    Literally, the best app for readers.
    Make Your P@ssw0rd Secure
    Leveraging SubDomains

  6. #6
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    In mud, mud, glorious mud
    Posts
    4
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoBear View Post
    Sounds to me as if WestSideGuy's client is worrying about the effects of Google's Puffin update:

    http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show...SEO!&p=5649325
    Sounds that way to me, too.

    I think the client might have misunderstood that part. My reading of it is that Google are penalising sites using tables for *layout*, not all sites using tables. The first thing I would fix would be the colour scheme, which is easy, followed by the video transcripts.

  7. #7
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    3
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ParkinT View Post
    Welcome to the Forums, @WestSideGuy ;
    Considering the constant flux in Web "standards", the concern for Search Engine Ranking and the fickle nature of most web-savvy users, I would recommend you simply IGNORE YOUR CLIENT.
    Just tell him directly that YOU ARE THE WEB EXPERT and he has hired you to make these sort of decisions; not based on "the winds of change" but on your hard-earned experience.
    Thank you for the welcome ralph.m and ParkinT
    Unfortunately the seo guy also claims to be an expert going on about some "puffin update" nonsense.

    But if I give my client a link to this thread it should help my case some.

    edit -- I see TechnoBear has posted a link, I'll check that now.

  8. #8
    SitePoint Wizard bronze trophy
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Augusta, Georgia, United States
    Posts
    4,194
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by WestSideGuy
    The site has several short videos and he says they need "transcripts". Since all the videos are about football I can spend a little time coming up with something and add that to them.
    Not so easy, I know design, not writing content, but I can do it.
    As a web designer/developer it isn't really your job to write transcripts for a subject which you probably know nothing about. If the client really wants these I would tell them to write the transcripts themselves and they will be added. However, having you write them is probably as good as not having them at all, realistically speaking.

    Quote Originally Posted by WestSideGuy
    The site has quite a few tables with season game scores etc. and now he says the table tags must go!
    That sounds like tabular data as it should be. So changing it to nested divs would be incorrect as others have said.

    Quote Originally Posted by WestSideGuy
    I have seen a lot of people say that tables are bad, so his request is valid even if I'm not happy about it.
    A SEO professional who suggests/pushes tables be replaced with nested divs when they are being used to represent tabular data is a fraud. I mean this is some bare bone basic semantic stuff that any web professional should know…
    The only code I hate more than my own is everyone else's.

  9. #9
    Programming Since 1978 silver trophybronze trophy felgall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    16,870
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by oddz View Post
    As a web designer/developer it isn't really your job to write transcripts for a subject which you probably know nothing about.
    Since a transcript is simply a written copy of whatever is said in the video it shouldn't matter whether you actually know any of it or not. You are just typing what someone else said.
    Stephen J Chapman

    javascriptexample.net, Book Reviews, follow me on Twitter
    HTML Help, CSS Help, JavaScript Help, PHP/mySQL Help, blog
    <input name="html5" type="text" required pattern="^$">


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •