SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1
    SitePoint Addict
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    277
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Does SEO still exist? Or is content more important?

    I found this on the web. The guy seems to claim that because his website is on page 1 of Google search and that he claims to do no SEO and that this somehow proves SEO no longer exists.

    http://www.businessdiscussionforums....pic.php?t=4011

    He claims its all down to content writing.

    Is this guy a crank? Your thoughts?
    Last edited by cpradio; Feb 16, 2014 at 05:24.

  2. #2
    Mouse catcher silver trophy Stevie D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Yorkshire, UK
    Posts
    5,888
    Mentioned
    122 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    I agree that the guy is a crank, but I also think he's mostly right, it's just a shame that he spoils good ideas with such a bad attitude. If he had written the same thing but in a less strident and opinionated way, it would be a lot more convincing.

    I have been saying for years that the key to a good ranking in search engines is good content. I don't agree with him that the code is not important, although Google is pretty good at working out what's important even if you code it like a chimp. But all the other stuff about link building and directory submission has little value, because Google is very good at figuring out which links you have planted to your own website and ignoring them.

    I'm not saying it doesn't have any impact, and if you're in a very competitive niche then you may need to do more, but for a lot of websites any time, money or effort spent on SEO is wasted and could have been used more effectively on improving the quality, content or user experience of the website.

  3. #3
    Life is not a malfunction gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
    TechnoBear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Argyll, Scotland
    Posts
    6,177
    Mentioned
    264 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    The guy has some good points, although I think he's taking them to extremes. I certainly agree with him that off-page SEO is unnecessary. We have a couple of recent threads here discussing similar ideas:

    http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show...tell-me-please

    http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show...doing-off-page

    As far as on-page SEO and page structure goes, I would have to disagree. It might well be possible to rank well for a poorly-structured site where the competition is fairly low, but in more highly competitive areas, I think poor page structure will lead to a lower ranking - all other things being equal.

  4. #4
    SitePoint Mentor bronze trophy
    John_Betong's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    City of Angels
    Posts
    1,833
    Mentioned
    73 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)
    This is the message I received when I tried: "http://www.businessdiscussionforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=4011"



    Information
    You have been permanently banned from this board.

    Please contact the Board Administrator for more information.

    A ban has been issued on your IP address.

    The joys of living in The Land of Smiles
    Learn how to be ready for The New Move to Discourse

    How to make Make Money Now with a *NEW* look

    Be sure to congratulate Patche on earning Member of the Month for July 2014

  5. #5
    SitePoint Mentor silver trophybronze trophy
    Mikl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    1,555
    Mentioned
    63 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think the guy ("Dr Pepper") is basically correct. But he's presenting it as if this is some new and sensational discovery on his part. In fact, he's doing little more than stating what many of us have always known.

    Mike

  6. #6
    SitePoint Addict
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    277
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yes, I think I see what you are saying.

    I get that off-page SEO is almost irrelevant now and, if I understand you correctly, than on-page SEO is dropping in relative importance against good content writing.

    Also, since more and more links are becoming nofollow I am really wondering how much Google pays to linking now anyway.

    It was just interesting to see how, er,... blatantly, Dr Pepper put it. Not sure how scientific his methods were though. He seemed to claim that his non updating of his websites, and their increased popularity in Google ranking, was proof that meta tagging doesn't work.

    Maybe we will see a decline in SEO meta taggers but a increase in copy writing services in years to come.

  7. #7
    SitePoint Mentor silver trophybronze trophy
    Mikl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    1,555
    Mentioned
    63 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    if I understand you correctly, than on-page SEO is dropping in relative importance against good content writing.
    Well, you could argue that good content writing is on-page SEO (and always has been).

    Not sure how scientific his methods were though. He seemed to claim that his non updating of his websites, and their increased popularity in Google ranking, was proof that meta tagging doesn't work.
    Yes, I was puzzled by that as well. There's clearly not much logic in his argument.

    Mike

  8. #8
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Both go hand in hand. For a good SEO, it is important to have a quality content

  9. #9
    SitePoint Wizard webcosmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    1,480
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Writing good, quality content, is part of SEO, as now google is more intelligent, almost human like, optimizing the site for target audience, meaning quality content is, in fact optimizing it for search engines (Google).

  10. #10
    Programming Team silver trophybronze trophy
    Mittineague's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    West Springfield, Massachusetts
    Posts
    17,157
    Mentioned
    190 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikl View Post
    Well, you could argue that good content writing is on-page SEO (and always has been).
    .....
    I agree. And not only that, content is what everything else is (or should be) built around. Including all aspects Design.

    IMHO it is folly to take any other approach.

  11. #11
    phpLD Fanatic bronze trophy dvduval's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Silicon Valley
    Posts
    3,626
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Either people like your site or they don't. You might fool search engines for a little while, but eventually if you fail at quality, your site will fizzle. It's really pretty simple.

  12. #12
    SitePoint Addict
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    277
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mittineague View Post
    I agree. And not only that, content is what everything else is (or should be) built around. Including all aspects Design.

    IMHO it is folly to take any other approach.
    Do search engines take into account your design quality or are they completely blind to aesthetics?

  13. #13
    SitePoint Wizard
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,832
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    If you own a butchers in Wigan then providing your content is all about your shop, Wigan and butchery then you will rank well without any additional "seo".
    How much competition is there for those search terms? None. I can make up words and rank for it. That holds for any search engine.

    Google is not as smart as you Google lovers seem to think. I just can't understand that line of thinking given my experience of ranking well then getting buried in the results for no reason at all for every site I have created, which has been shared by thousands of other webmasters. If Google was that smart, websites wouldn't rank high then tank in the results within hours. The crappiest website I have (that has not been updated since 2007 other than to change ads) gets more traffic from Google than any site I ever put any effort into.

    As for the forum linked to by the original poster, it looks like it was launched around mid 2013, which makes it about 7 - 8 months old. If the Google Sandbox is still in effect (and I don't know that it is as I haven't followed Google for a while), it would be kicking in pretty soon. So unless the guy has tons of incoming links, I would expect his site to tank in Google soon. We shall see.

    And if he has an email associated with that website at Google, such as signing up for Webmaster Tools or Analytics, he will get an email from Google within 2 weeks of his site being buried in the results soliciting him to pay Google for advertising so he can get traffic. That's how Google drives ad revenue. You want traffic from Google, well you better pay for it.

    I will refer you back to a thread I posted in from 2007 - 2008 here at Sitepoint. In the thread linked below, the webmaster was bragging about ranking high in Google, about how he was making $1,500 a month from his website that ranked #4 for a competitive search term. I checked out the site. It did rank #4 for the search term. I reviewed the website. It was relevant to the search terms and I thought the site was decent. It contained funny pictures, as the search term was for. There was nothing bad about the site. It was worth looking at. I told the webmaster that his site would not remain highly ranked. And I was right. How did I know? My own personal experience and the experiences of thousands of other webmasters.

    I checked back 10 months later. The site went from #4 to about #685 in the Google search results--buried under irrelevant crap. I don't think it ever recovered. The website owner must have let the domain expire due to lack of traffic and it was picked up by somebody else. He wouldn't be the first webmaster to give up because Google buries his site beneath irrelevant results for no reason, and he will not be the last.

    Give it a read.

    http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show...7-Moving-on-up

  14. #14
    Programming Team silver trophybronze trophy
    Mittineague's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    West Springfield, Massachusetts
    Posts
    17,157
    Mentioned
    190 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)
    Looks like he
    I'm hoping my PR goes up the next update and then I could sell some text links to related content sites, but PR4 doesn't get enough monthly income for me to deal with it.
    .....
    Not to forget, I'll also soon add a "Add this picture to myspace, website, etc" link to help build one-way back links with out generated html with my main anchor text "Funny pictures".
    @kiwiheretic
    Other than having semantic mark-up that Google can easily parse, no, it doesn't see Design.
    People see Design, and Google sees what people do.

  15. #15
    SitePoint Addict
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    277
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cheesedude View Post
    I checked back 10 months later. The site went from #4 to about #685 in the Google search results--buried under irrelevant crap. I don't think it ever recovered. The website owner must have let the domain expire due to lack of traffic and it was picked up by somebody else. He wouldn't be the first webmaster to give up because Google buries his site beneath irrelevant results for no reason, and he will not be the last.

    Give it a read.

    http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show...7-Moving-on-up
    Yes, that's interesting. I guess if you have a domain in PR1 then you should sell it quick It sounds like you can't predict when it will plummet.

    Do you know if that Google "surge effect" still happens on new sites or is that a last decade thing?

  16. #16
    SitePoint Mentor silver trophybronze trophy
    Mikl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    Posts
    1,555
    Mentioned
    63 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cheesedude View Post
    And if he has an email associated with that website at Google, such as signing up for Webmaster Tools or Analytics, he will get an email from Google within 2 weeks of his site being buried in the results soliciting him to pay Google for advertising so he can get traffic. That's how Google drives ad revenue. You want traffic from Google, well you better pay for it.
    That's a pretty damning statement. If you have some evidence to support it, I'll take your word for it. But, frankly, I find it very hard to believe.

    Mike

  17. #17
    Life is not a malfunction gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
    TechnoBear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Argyll, Scotland
    Posts
    6,177
    Mentioned
    264 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    As Mittineague has already pointed out, his problem may well have been indicated in this post:
    Quote Originally Posted by ssandecki View Post
    I'm hoping my PR goes up the next update and then I could sell some text links to related content sites, but PR4 doesn't get enough monthly income for me to deal with it.
    As Google makes clear (my bold):
    Quote Originally Posted by Google
    The following are examples of link schemes which can negatively impact a site's ranking in search results:
    • Buying or selling links that pass PageRank. This includes exchanging money for links, or posts that contain links; exchanging goods or services for links; or sending someone a “free” product in exchange for them writing about it and including a link
    • Excessive link exchanges ("Link to me and I'll link to you") or partner pages exclusively for the sake of cross-linking
    • Large-scale article marketing or guest posting campaigns with keyword-rich anchor text links
    • Using automated programs or services to create links to your site
    I'm not a Google lover, but I do feel if you want to use any service, then you need to abide by the T&C. If you don't, you have no cause for complaint when that service is withdrawn.

    Also, you need to bear in mind that that thread is over six years old, and much has changed in SEO in that time.

  18. #18
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    24
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by John_Betong View Post
    This is the message I received when I tried: "http://www.businessdiscussionforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=4011"



    Information
    You have been permanently banned from this board.

    Please contact the Board Administrator for more information.

    A ban has been issued on your IP address.

    The joys of living in The Land of Smiles
    Same thing happened to me.

  19. #19
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    42
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiheretic View Post
    I found this on the web. The guy seems to claim that because his website is on page 1 of Google search and that he claims to do no SEO and that this somehow proves SEO no longer exists.

    http://www.businessdiscussionforums....pic.php?t=4011

    He claims its all down to content writing.

    Is this guy a crank? Your thoughts?
    Hello pal, it is good with doing any Specific SEO, the web page shows on Page 1. But what is SEO? it is not limited with the activities that an SEO professional do to rank your web page or to increase your traffic. Every activity that makes your website more optimized to show on Google is directly or indirectly part of an SEO. And till the Search Engine are alive, SEO is also going to live, ya there life-style are going to change as they depend on "Google and Google's Algorithm".

  20. #20
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi Kiwiheretic!

    Of course SEO is important because it provides the backbone of the website…but at the rate of Google changing its algorithm almost every year: Hummingbird, Penguin, Panda, Lion, Tigers, Bears, Sloth, T-Rex….etc., you are pretty much going to keep having to adjust your SEO methods accordingly. So it isn’t something stable that you can always rely on. One day it will rank on the first page, and two weeks later, it might sink to page 5.

    On other hand, quality content, when you are giving valuable information, and a unique voice and vocab in your writing, will certainly stand and give fresh content for Google to read, and for even other bloggers want to link to. And the more high quality links you have, the higher Google will determine your page’s ranking in its search engine.

    However, you have to be proactive in sharing your content. It will take forever to get results if you just write a superb blog but then just leave it there. You should considering social media and email marketing to gain followers, share links to your content, and thus increasing your web presence.

    <snip>

    For your content, you can produce one blog post for a certain segment group, and then a different content for another group, and because each campaign is relevant to their interest, there will be more clicks. That is the magic of target marketing.

    So basically, have SEO has a technical foundation for your site, but produce good content and utilize good marketing, to achieve more traffic to your site.

    -Dorothy Le
    <snip>
    Last edited by TechnoBear; Feb 25, 2014 at 04:43. Reason: No self-promotion, please

  21. #21
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    India
    Posts
    8
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Yes Stevie, I do agree with you, the person had said some good things but the way of saying was wrong.

    The SEO cannot be die but the way of doing this will change regularly. The content is the first thing of the website which shows to users so it has to be best. You have to use unique and attractive content for the website. Also, you can use some content oriented activities like write blogs and articles for the website and post them on others website. You can also add link of your website on keywords in the blogs and articles. This will really beneficial for your website and you get good rank on the keyword as well.

  22. #22
    SitePoint Member josep88's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    india
    Posts
    14
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    SEO is alive and well, and in my opinion, it’s thriving - it’s only dead if you’re not interested in having your website found when someone “Googles” a word or phrase that describes your product or service.
    Dallas SEO expertSEO Texas and Charlotte SEO
    give the all type of media marketing services with
    Hire SEO Expert effective media marketing services.

  23. #23
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Seo is still alive but Google focusing on unique content these days. Algorithm is updating up to date every day comes new updated. If need ranking in Google search engine keep maintain your site with unique content. Avoid spamming.

  24. #24
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    6
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    As much interesting as that may seem, quality content is just a crucial part of SEO, it can never overtake the entire concept in itself. Content marketing is indeed gaining prominence as an effective tool to increase page rankings.

  25. #25
    Life is not a malfunction gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
    TechnoBear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Argyll, Scotland
    Posts
    6,177
    Mentioned
    264 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)
    As the thread seems to have moved away from ddiscussion of the article in question, and into vague generalities, I think it's time to close it.

    Thanks to all who contributed.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •