SitePoint Sponsor

User Tag List

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 98
  1. #51
    SitePoint Addict
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    307
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cpradio View Post
    Read their blog... They are approaching their 1.0, all it takes is a bit of "research" the thing you keep hounding us on...

    ... snip for brevity ...

    I think you don't give him enough credit. You should really read his blog.
    Lol, now that's what they call shifting the burden of proof.

    I honestly don't know why you are trying to caricature my viewpoint and then proceeding to fight the strawmen you yourself created.

  2. #52
    SitePoint Addict
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    307
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveMaxwell View Post
    It does look like there's a tapatalk plugin/gem (aw...how cute. gem/ruby) which might be viable - we're collecting a list of plugins which might be helpful for the forums, I'll be sure to add this to the list of ones to be considered.
    Well, that's interesting. I didn't know about that. Will be interesting to know whether it gets the ok from sitepoint.

  3. #53
    Galactic Overlord gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
    HAWK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    12,586
    Mentioned
    980 Post(s)
    Tagged
    14 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by oddz View Post

    I guess when you think about it it makes sense so long as it can all be sold upstairs.
    Thanks. I appreciate you taking the time to reevaluate! In good news, it has very much been sold to upstairs. I'm collaborating with our GM, Jeff and the forum staff to get this done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiheretic View Post
    Ok, I didn't realise that Sitepoint has "priority support" from Jeff Atwood himself. I guess it really is like they say: "It's not what you know it's who you know." The risk then is more of a marketing risk than a technical one. I'm not sure what I think but I can see now that Sitepoint is betting all it's chips on Jeff Atwood's cards.
    We have priority support because this is a partnership. We get good pricing, dev support from the Discourse team, and Jeff is working with me to do the actual migration. In return, he gets a tonne of bug and scalability testing. It's working well so far.

    I welcome everyone's opinion, but this thread seems to be going downhill a bit. I think we've answered all your questions now @Kiwiheretic ; and I'd be really keen to hear what others think.

  4. #54
    SitePoint Enthusiast
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    37
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Did Sitepoint give consideration to IPB?. (I'm sure it was looked at) but I'd be interested to know what was the factor of excluding that platform. I admit I've used IPB for along time, since its release, and am happy to be grandfathered in with a lifetime license so I'm off the monthly fee they went to.. But just like shopping carts.. "NO" platform will "Fit" right without a number of mods/edits and then again depending on the edits your always faced to the dreaded upgrades.
    With the resources this site has, I'm surprised you dont have a contest to build your own..

  5. #55
    SitePoint Addict
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    307
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Turtleman49 View Post
    Did Sitepoint give consideration to IPB?

    ..snip...

    With the resources this site has, I'm surprised you dont have a contest to build your own..
    It's funny you should say that as there is project, by one of the members, here: http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show....php?t=1191091 However that project is still in its infancy and I got the impression that Sitepoint is in a hurry to try something new.

    I think IPB is a php forum also isn't it? I suspect that was the reason it was excluded but ask @Hawk or one of the other moderators for the complete story there.

  6. #56
    Barefoot on the Moon! silver trophy Force Flow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Northeastern USA
    Posts
    4,617
    Mentioned
    56 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Turtleman49 View Post
    Did Sitepoint give consideration to IPB?. (I'm sure it was looked at) but I'd be interested to know what was the factor of excluding that platform. I admit I've used IPB for along time, since its release, and am happy to be grandfathered in with a lifetime license so I'm off the monthly fee they went to.. But just like shopping carts.. "NO" platform will "Fit" right without a number of mods/edits and then again depending on the edits your always faced to the dreaded upgrades.
    With the resources this site has, I'm surprised you dont have a contest to build your own..
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiheretic View Post
    It's funny you should say that as there is project, by one of the members, here: http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show....php?t=1191091 However that project is still in its infancy and I got the impression that Sitepoint is in a hurry to try something new.

    I think IPB is a php forum also isn't it? I suspect that was the reason it was excluded but ask @Hawk or one of the other moderators for the complete story there.
    The problem with IPB, XenForo, and most of the other proposed vBulletin replacements is that they are just basically clones of vBulletin. Granted, some have a more modern look than others, but the problem with a drop-in replacement to vB is that we'll run into pretty much all the same problems we're having with vB right now. It doesn't actually solve the problem in the short-term *or* long-term.
    Visit The Blog | Follow On Twitter
    301tool 1.1.5 - URL redirector & shortener (PHP/MySQL)
    Can be hosted on and utilize your own domain

  7. #57
    Community Advisor ULTiMATE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Bristol, United Kingdom
    Posts
    2,160
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiheretic View Post
    Lol, now that's what they call shifting the burden of proof.

    I honestly don't know why you are trying to caricature my viewpoint and then proceeding to fight the strawmen you yourself created.
    Out of interest, have you used vBulletin recently?

    If so, you'd know how awful it is. I loved it during the vBulletin 2 years, and I didn't mind vBulletin 3 so much, but the second Jelsoft ended up in the hands of Internet Brands vBulletin went downhill super fast. They raised the prices, the quality of code went downhill tremendously, and it was clearly a project that was ruled by management and not by coders, otherwise we wouldn't have XenForo today. Add on top of that the laughable mismanagement of vBulletin, and the numerous security issues that vBulletin forums face, I'm surprised we didn't move sooner. vBulletin is a dead platform from a dead era.

    I was recently tasked with setting up a forum for one of my clients, and the choices out there are shocking. IPB and phpBB are bloated pieces of crap, and quite frankly very few designers and clients want to work with such beasts when all they want is a discussion forum. They don't care about how the postbit area looks, and they don't care about signatures, or fancy avatars, or reputation systems. Nowadays, there are a ton of forum scripts on GitHub that will hook into a CMS, and quite frankly most of these are better than the big forum scripts. Ever have to try and cater for these scripts on a large production site? I'd hate to be the guys running this forum! Forums are supposed to be basic, but they'll happily drain your CPU if you're running a modestly popular site.

    Discourse is an ambitious project, and while there are still some things that need ironing out, but in its current state I would say that it's already a much better forum application than vBulletin. The code is much cleaner, it's more efficient, and it's not stuck in the dark ages like most forum scripts are. It's also got a great team behind it, with a developer that effectively killed many forums off with the creation of Stack Overflow. I think we're in safer hands with Jeff Atwood than those that run vBulletin, and on Ruby and AngularJS we're on a modern platform that, after a rocky start, is now mature and proven for web applications.

    I can see a lot of people disliking it, but I think a lot of people on this forum need to be dragged into the 21st century.

  8. #58
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    17
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi,

    I am not a Sitepoint regular. I registered some time ago, but this change made news at another admin site I frequent and it really caught my attention.

    I'd like to understand this statement.

    I don't totally agree with Jeff's take on the problem with forums
    I don't either, but how can you go with a system based on a premise you don't agree with? Yes, you said you like what he is doing with Discourse, but noted no facts or details on how Discourse is actually going to improve the user experience here. It is definitely not a given, just because it is different.

    I will have to agree with the change. vBulletin has, unfortunately, seen its day and it is very sad for me, personally, to see another great brand ambassador leave vBulletin. But, I can't knock you for accepting the need to do something about vBulletin. Other large communities have also made that same painful decision.

    I would just like to suggest humbly, you think about the way you are doing the change. I'd like to suggest to be more transparent about it. The technical reasons for the change are fairly clear. The "how this community will get better because of the change" reasoning hasn't been really explained from what I've read here and that seems to be the overall concern.

    How is the change going to make the Sitepoint community better? What is the problem being solved and how?

    I think those questions need answering.

    I'll throw in this word of knowledge from my 14 years of experience with online communities. Changing the software will not stop a shrinking community from continuing to shrinking. The user experience is only a partial factor to community growth and I'd say a relatively small one. Just look at reddit.

    So my suggestion is, think about why the community is shrinking and address how the change to a new forum application is going to correct that trend. If you have already done this, communicate the reasoning. I am certain you'll get a lot less friction for the change, if the reasoning and the expected results for the change are made clear to the users.

    Hope I could help.

    Scott

  9. #59
    SitePoint Zealot digitalpoint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    191
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    We went through a similar transition about a year ago, and it's no joke/easy task... but I suspect there is similar reasoning behind it. For us, vBulletin just became too cumbersome to maintain and I wasn't happy with the overall direction it was going.

    It took me more than a year to rewrite all the custom applications/stuff I had built on top of the vBulletin framework from scratch (we have many tools that could be stand-alone websites, search engine spider, an advertising platform to buy/sell ad space, etc, etc.) Given all that, it was *still* worth it to rewrite everything from scratch on an internally better platform and I'd do it again if I had to (it ended up being somewhere around 1.7M lines of code that had to be recoded).

    I even ended up writing my own custom importer because we had to minimize downtime (our migration took 33 minutes and consisted of ~75,000,000 records). After the fact (of course... haha) I thought of an even faster way to do the migration which would have yielded more or less zero downtime... just flip a switch. Oh well...

    We didn't migrate to Discourse, but I certainly learned a whole lot about large scale community migrations in the process, so if you guys need any help or recommendations, feel free to hit me up.

  10. #60
    Mazel tov! bronze trophy kohoutek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Hamburg, Germany
    Posts
    4,248
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't think this is a good idea... However, as the migration is already set to happen regardless of what anyone says, it's redundant to bring up any concerns.

    One thing that I would hope for is that a complete archive of the old forum content is kept accessible to us post migration. To me, SP has always been about its content, so losing any of the contributions by existent and past forum members, no matter how old or dated, would be horrifying.
    Maleika E. A. | Rockatee | Twitter | Dribbble



  11. #61
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by s.molinari View Post
    Hi,
    The technical reasons for the change are fairly clear. The "how this community will get better because of the change" reasoning hasn't been really explained from what I've read here and that seems to be the overall concern.

    How is the change going to make the Sitepoint community better? What is the problem being solved and how?

    I think those questions need answering.

    ...

    So my suggestion is, think about why the community is shrinking and address how the change to a new forum application is going to correct that trend. If you have already done this, communicate the reasoning.
    I just want to re-iterate these points. Or perhaps, the Discourse transition is only dealing with the technical part of the problem, and you have a completely different plan for the human part?

    From reading this and similar threads, I have a clear view of the technical problems, and how you hope that Discourse will solve them. And I see that you want to revitalize the community.

    But I don't see 1. what you believe to be the reason for the communities decline, and 2. how you plan to counter that. And that's the question I'd really like to see answered.

  12. #62
    Galactic Overlord gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
    HAWK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    12,586
    Mentioned
    980 Post(s)
    Tagged
    14 Thread(s)
    Again I want to say thanks to you all for taking the time to actually put your feedback down in words. It really is appreciated. While this is clearly not a debate, in that this decision is ours to make, it certainly gives me the opportunity to try and dispel your concerns or explain our rationale, and that is really important. I have addressed some of those concerns inline below in red.

    Quote Originally Posted by s.molinari View Post
    I don't either, but how can you go with a system based on a premise you don't agree with? Yes, you said you like what he is doing with Discourse, but noted no facts or details on how Discourse is actually going to improve the user experience here. It is definitely not a given, just because it is different. Hi Scott. Thanks for your comments. I'm sorry if I haven't been clear! I believe that Discourse is the result of one way of thinking. While I don't agree that all forum software is "considered unworkable and undesirable" and means that "few sites want forums any more because the software is so poor", that doesn't mean that I don't like what he has come up with as a result. I think it's totally reasonable for two people to come to the same conclusion by following very different rationales. With regard to user experience, the simple fact that we have full flexibility to customise Discourse quickly and easily means that the UX is in our hands, not the hands of vB. (I believe you work for vB, so I should add that it has served us well for many years, but no longer continues to do so.)

    The "how this community will get better because of the change" reasoning hasn't been really explained from what I've read here and that seems to be the overall concern. Hrmmm. I think you might be harbouring a misconception. This change isn't taking place in order to try and 'fix the community'. That is precisely what I meant when I said "Having said all of that, any Community Manager worth their salt knows that a great platform doesn't make a great community – I need you for that." We are attempting to address technical debt and are making this change primarily for financial reasons. vB has become expensive to maintain and we are a Rails house, so we'd like software than we can easily customise.

    Changing the software will not stop a shrinking community from continuing to shrinking. I'm in 100% agreement. It is indeed a common mistake, but not one that we are making. Again, refer to my comment in the original post.

    I hope I've answered your questions. I'll address your concerns about the decline in the community later in this post.
    Quote Originally Posted by digitalpoint View Post
    For us, vBulletin just became too cumbersome to maintain and I wasn't happy with the overall direction it was going. Exactly!

    We didn't migrate to Discourse, but I certainly learned a whole lot about large scale community migrations in the process, so if you guys need any help or recommendations, feel free to hit me up. Awesome. That's a generous offer and it's much appreciated. Thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by kohoutek View Post
    One thing that I would hope for is that a complete archive of the old forum content is kept accessible to us post migration. We will definitely be archiving anything that isn't migrated. It's not only valuable to this community, but from a business perspective it brings in a lot of traffic.
    Quote Originally Posted by PenumbraWebworks View Post
    I just want to re-iterate these points. Or perhaps, the Discourse transition is only dealing with the technical part of the problem, and you have a completely different plan for the human part? Bingo!

    But I don't see 1. what you believe to be the reason for the communities decline, I believe that there are several reasons. Primarily, it is because we have reached the mitosis stage of the community lifecycle. That is a natural state for any huge, well established community to reach. Unless you restructure and refocus, people lose that feeling of connection that is what makes them stick around. There are plenty of ways to approach that, but without the flexibility of an agile and customisable platform, that process can be cumbersome. Secondly, the maturity and nature of our community means that we are constantly being attacked by bots, spammers and fluff posters. A large number of my staff spend too much of their time fire-fighting and not enough time engaging with the community and helping people to feel connected. I'd like a platform that encourages community moderation, partly to instil a sense of pride back into the place and partly to take some pressure off my staff. And lastly, the way that we have been doing things around here hasn't really changed in a decade. We need a shakeup to the way that we approach the idea of community. A rebuild on a flexible platform is making us revisit our existing procedures and rethinking the things that are important.

    and 2. how you plan to counter that. And that's the question I'd really like to see answered. I think I answered most of this in the answer above. I should also add that Discourse provides a couple of key things that should help. Firstly, the thanks feature. We've been researching plugins to do the same thing here (it's built into vB5) but they are all horrifically ugly. Secondly, we should get a small bump in publicity as a result of this change, which will bring some new blood into the forums. If we harness that influx properly, we should have a good basis on which to revitalise. (Note: that is nothing to do with Discourse, it would be the same with any platform change.
    Last edited by HAWK; Feb 16, 2014 at 18:09.

  13. #63
    Mazel tov! bronze trophy kohoutek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Hamburg, Germany
    Posts
    4,248
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by HAWK View Post
    We will definitely be archiving anything that isn't migrated. It's not only valuable to this community, but from a business perspective it brings in a lot of traffic.


    Wonderful! That, to me, is the most important thing. Everything else will take getting used to but knowing that all content will continue to be available in some form is a big relief.
    Maleika E. A. | Rockatee | Twitter | Dribbble



  14. #64
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    3
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by HAWK View Post
    Again I want to say thanks to you all for taking the time to actually put your feedback down in words. It really is appreciated. While this is clearly not a debate, in that this decision is ours to make, it certainly gives me the opportunity to try and dispel your concerns or explain our rationale, and that is really important. I have addressed some of those concerns inline below in red.
    Thanks for your answers, they do help a lot .

    Jeff Atwood is technically brilliant, but -- alas -- not at the very top of the list of people I'd go to for help developing a stronger sense of community. But wanting a more flexible platform that you have more control over, I understand completely.

    One more question for you. Several people have mentioned that a prior pruning of sub-forums caused some highly knowledgeable people to leave, because it had gotten harder to keep track of discussions they were actively interested in among the flood of beginner questions. I wasn't here back then, so I have no opinion on this, but I'm curious to know what your take is.

  15. #65
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    17
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    @Hawk - Just FYI, I used to be a partner for vBulletin. I am no longer affiliated with them.

    And indeed, that one sentence of yours I missed, but still, it seems one of the goals for the change is to make the community better as cpradio clearly stated.

    Please take heart in knowing we didn't make this decision over-night but ultimately realized, we couldn't take the community to where it could thrive without getting off vBulletin.
    This is what spurred me on to write here actually. There are still a good number of thriving vBulletin forums.

    With regard to user experience, the simple fact that we have full flexibility to customise Discourse quickly and easily means that the UX is in our hands, not the hands of vB.
    Is there any documentation on this you could quickly point me to on how Discourse gives you more flexibility on UX than vB does? I'd like to understand how this is possible.

    I also noticed you use Disqus for your article discussions. Will that change with Discourse? I can imagine having two different discussion engines causes not only issues with users, but there is also no way to commonly search through the posts, which lowers the ability to find content. It is also impossible to find new activity that way.

    I guess, in the end, as long as you are all clear on the fact that Discourse won't necessarily help this community be a better community and it definitely won't mean it will thrive automatically, then I am happy.

    Scott

  16. #66
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    17
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by PenumbraWebworks View Post
    One more question for you. Several people have mentioned that a prior pruning of sub-forums caused some highly knowledgeable people to leave, because it had gotten harder to keep track of discussions they were actively interested in among the flood of beginner questions. I wasn't here back then, so I have no opinion on this, but I'm curious to know what your take is.
    I am curious too. It would seem to avoid the mitosis, you'd need to actually diversify more.

    Scott

  17. #67
    SitePoint Enthusiast doddsey_65's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    North East UK
    Posts
    77
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    To be honest I am not a fan of the Discourse method of hierarchy structure. I get that you can sort by tags/categories but if you don't then you are greeted with a huge list of topics. It just looks too "messy" for me especially with a lot of avatar pictures (which pushes the load time up quite alot).
    Test and help out with a new
    100% open source forum package: A Simple Forum
    Check the A Simple forum Github Page
    Visit my Github profile to see what I work on.

  18. #68
    Galactic Overlord gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
    HAWK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    12,586
    Mentioned
    980 Post(s)
    Tagged
    14 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by PenumbraWebworks View Post
    One more question for you. Several people have mentioned that a prior pruning of sub-forums caused some highly knowledgeable people to leave, because it had gotten harder to keep track of discussions they were actively interested in among the flood of beginner questions. I wasn't here back then, so I have no opinion on this, but I'm curious to know what your take is.
    I was interested to hear that too. The statistics don't show a drop in traffic after the cull, as was suggested in one of the comments and I didn't personally notice people leave, but I have to take the comments at face value. I made the cull with two goals in mind. Firstly, we got rid of the noisy forums that generated little to no healthy engagement (SEO for instance it was a mire of spam and fluff posts). We archived the old threads of course, we didn't delete them. Secondly, we merged some of the smaller sub-forums that got very little traffic into the larger forums that housed them. I am hearing people say that that was a mistake, and in response we are revisiting that decision with the move to Discourse. We will likely reopen or in some cases create forums with a view to attracting a higher level of healthy discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by s.molinari View Post
    @Hawk - Just FYI, I used to be a partner for vBulletin. I am no longer affiliated with them.
    Ah, I see. Apologies for the mistake.

    Quote Originally Posted by s.molinari View Post
    And indeed, that one sentence of yours I missed, but still, it seems one of the goals for the change is to make the community better as cpradio clearly stated.
    Part and parcel of the move is to refocus the community in the hope of reenergising it, but that is more to do with the structural and procedural changes that will take place as part of the migration, than the actual platform itself. We have spent a lot of time discussing the direction that we want to take this community, and some of that means that we have a requirement for tools or functionality that aren't part of vBulletin. We thought about whether continuing to heavily customise a platform that we no longer like was a better option than starting new with something that from my perspective is exciting and has a lot of potential, and decided to go with the latter. (When I say 'we' I am referring to the GM of SitePoint and me. My staff are loyal and supportive, and although some of them have mixed feelings about the change, they have all decided to stay on board, for which I am very grateful. Many of them are putting in lots of extra time helping me with the logistics of the migration, but their opinions are their own and if you want direct answers on why decisions are being made, I am the only one that can give them to you.)



    Quote Originally Posted by s.molinari View Post
    This is what spurred me on to write here actually. There are still a good number of thriving vBulletin forums.
    I agree! In fact, I am in the process of building a brand new community on vB Cloud. vB serves many people well I just don't believe it is the right product for SitePoint at this point in time.


    Quote Originally Posted by s.molinari View Post
    Is there any documentation on this you could quickly point me to on how Discourse gives you more flexibility on UX than vB does? I'd like to understand how this is possible.
    I think you may have misunderstood my point. I'm not suggesting that one platform has more potential than the other when it comes to UX, I'm simply saying that as a Rails house, we have the resources in-house to customise a Discourse experience to suit our needs and those of the community. We don't have that option with vB any longer without outsourcing (and tbh I've been having a fair bit of trouble finding reliable people to write good vB plugins of late, but that issue is now moot).

    Quote Originally Posted by s.molinari View Post
    I also noticed you use Disqus for your article discussions. Will that change with Discourse?
    These days I am responsible only for the forums, so can't give definitive answers with regard to other parts of the company, but a big part of going with Discourse over other forum platforms is WordPress integration. One of our first priorities after the community has bedded in is to work on integration of the forums with sitepoint.com and Learnable.

    Quote Originally Posted by s.molinari View Post
    I guess, in the end, as long as you are all clear on the fact that Discourse won't necessarily help this community be a better community and it definitely won't mean it will thrive automatically, then I am happy.
    Very clear. I hope you'll stick around and be a part of the community to find out first hand. I value your insight.

    Quote Originally Posted by s.molinari View Post
    I am curious too. It would seem to avoid the mitosis, you'd need to actually diversify more.

    Scott
    Indeed. We're addressing this two-fold. We are revisiting our current forum structure as I mentioned above. I also hope that a change will facilitate a re-focus and allow us to hone in on the areas that we can take further.
    Last edited by Mittineague; Feb 17, 2014 at 00:36.

  19. #69
    SitePoint Addict
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    307
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by HAWK View Post
    Many of them are putting in lots of extra time helping me with the logistics of the migration, ....
    Speaking of migrations what happens to posts with links in them? I am referring to links that are internal links and point to other sitepoint posts as we often paste links in quoting another sitepoint post. Do they migrate over as well and point to the posts as they are in the new forum or will they point to old posts in the archives? I imagine if they are left dangling it will not only be confusing but possibly also bad for SEO. (That is Google may mark you down for having dead links.)
    Last edited by Kiwiheretic; Feb 17, 2014 at 00:35. Reason: Clarification

  20. #70
    SitePoint Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    17
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by HAWK View Post
    I think you may have misunderstood my point. I'm not suggesting that one platform has more potential than the other when it comes to UX, I'm simply saying that as a Rails house, we have the resources in-house to customise a Discourse experience to suit our needs and those of the community. We don't have that option with vB any longer without outsourcing (and tbh I've been having a fair bit of trouble finding reliable people to write good vB plugins of late, but that issue is now moot).

    I hope you'll stick around and be a part of the community to find out first hand. I value your insight.
    Ok, I got you. Thanks for your time too. And thank you for the compliment.

    As for sticking around, I took a good look at the forums and I think they are, well, too general or missing the specific topics for my own current interests. For instance, my interests are in PHP, but more specifically in the Symfony2 framework. I am also very interested in HHVM and anything it would take to make PHP as performant as possible (like Nginx + PHP-FPM + APC). I am also studying MongoDB and am very interested in Bootstrap and jQuery for the UI side of web development. These are all topics which seem to be missing or skimmed on as part of a general topic in the forums. jQuery, for example, is mixed in with Javascript. Putting the two together waters down the subject of jQuery terribly. You could have alleviated that a bit with prefixes, but haven't.

    As a suggestion, maybe create topics (sub-forums) based on current trends and articles that have been written. For instance, you could have sub-forums under PHP for HHVM and PHP-FPM or just have a "High Performance PHP" sub-forum and under the great articles like this one or this one, you could write "Discuss High Performance PHP our forum!". In other words, if there isn't a forum about the subject of an article, make one and link to it.

    Something I also don't understand is why Perl and Python are in the same forum. Python has nothing to do with Perl per se and Python is gaining greatly in popularity. It should be in its own forum really. And why is Java missing completely? Java is a whole world in itself, I know, but it is a serious part of web development too.

    I would say the generalization, or cull as you call it, of the forums is a problem, especially for the "specialists", who are more than likely the experts you need here too. The generalization simply kills any want to be active for them and from what I see of Discourse, it is even harder to specialize it (they actually had to add sub-categories as a feature??? ). You might want to think about that too for the future.

    Hope I could help.

    Scott

  21. #71
    SitePoint Addict
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    307
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by s.molinari View Post
    ...
    For instance, my interests are in PHP, but more specifically in the Symfony2 framework. I am also very interested in HHVM and anything it would take to make PHP as performant as possible (like Nginx + PHP-FPM + APC). I am also studying MongoDB and am very interested in Bootstrap and jQuery for the UI side of web development. These are all topics which seem to be missing or skimmed on as part of a general topic in the forums. jQuery, for example, is mixed in with Javascript. Putting the two together waters down the subject of jQuery terribly. You could have alleviated that a bit with prefixes, but haven't.

    As a suggestion, maybe create topics (sub-forums) based on current trends and articles that have been written. For instance, you could have sub-forums under PHP for HHVM and PHP-FPM or just have a "High Performance PHP" sub-forum and under the great articles like this one or this one, you could write "Discuss High Performance PHP our forum!". In other words, if there isn't a forum about the subject of an article, make one and link to it.

    Something I also don't understand is why Perl and Python are in the same forum. Python has nothing to do with Perl per se and Python is gaining greatly in popularity. It should be in its own forum really. And why is Java missing completely? Java is a whole world in itself, I know, but it is a serious part of web development too.


    Scott
    Yep, I agree and there is a thread going on to that effect here:

    http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/show....php?t=1198179

    In that seem thread there was some talk about how deep Discourse can go in sub forums and it didn't sound very deep. Whether that can be rectified by a plugin or not I am not sure.

    There was talk about how this community could grow and while Discourse has been touted as the next step up from vBulleting it has also been acknowledged that Discourse isn't going to solve every human problem and bring about world peace the day after its installed

    However, when we do decide to look at the human factors I do hope that Sitepoint does consult with the community and make our road to success a community project and not simply a managerial "strategic" initiative.

  22. #72
    Galactic Overlord gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
    HAWK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    12,586
    Mentioned
    980 Post(s)
    Tagged
    14 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwiheretic View Post
    However, when we do decide to look at the human factors I do hope that SitePoint does consult with the community and make our road to success a community project and not simply a managerial "strategic" initiative.
    That is the purpose of this thread and of the other one that you link to. We are asking for input all over the show!

  23. #73
    SitePoint Enthusiast sophieschoice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    33
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    If you want to regain quality content and quality posters, it doesn't always equal changing community software. With each forum software it is possible to hide or delete posts that don't make any sense or are low quality. With each software it is possible to create rules or guidelines about which content is accepted. With each forum software that exists it is possible to re-order categories/forum or to create new ones. You can revive the community without the need for new software.

    Listen, I do understand the technical reasons you have for changing software. But I am a bit afraid you are counting to much on the software to solve the community issue. While in most cases member behavior and quality of content won't change (or get even worse).

  24. #74
    Galactic Overlord gold trophysilver trophybronze trophy
    HAWK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    12,586
    Mentioned
    980 Post(s)
    Tagged
    14 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by sophieschoice View Post
    But I am a bit afraid you are counting to much on the software to solve the community issue. While in most cases member behavior and quality of content won't change (or get even worse).
    Hey there. Thanks for taking the time to put down your feedback. I appreciate it.

    I feel a bit like I'm flogging a dead horse though. I'm not expecting the platform migration to change fundamental social issues, but I do hope it might help us to refocus and regenerate somewhat. If it doesn't, we're no worse off.

  25. #75
    SitePoint Zealot AirFor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Berrigan, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    132
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think I've worked out why I dislike these forums, I like to browse between sub categories on the forum, HTML, CSS, JavaScript etc. From the get go this is difficult because when you click on Forums in the main navigation, it takes you to http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/ which shows the most popular posts for the week / month etc. I find navigating the topics down the left side a real pain, I don't know why, I think it's because it's not smack bang in front of me. Instead it should take you to http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/forum.php which is in the sub navigation or forum navigation. This page seems a lot easier to navigate and more clear. I guess I just don't like that there is two separate ways to navigate the forums. Anyway, can't wait for the new forums as I think I'll spend more time around here.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •